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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 13, 2016 10:05:56 GMT -5
It seems to me that the shady environments of some comic shops is what drove female readers away. When female readers could simply go to a newsstand and buy their comics, they didn't have to deal with lecherous looks and snide misogyny. And yet I grew up in the early '90s, when comics could still be found on newsstands, and I distinctly recall comics being seen as a "boy" thing. Every boy in school had an opinion on Batman and The X-Men, but I don't recall a single girl ever expressing any interest in those things until the animated series for both properties came around a few years later. So, from my own anecdotal experience, it would seem the industry had already done something to lose female readership long before comics went direct market only. Like you stated in the beginning, the shift away from content aimed at female readers started in the 70's. I think the comic shop aspect did play its part, but it probably wasn't the major factor. I suppose the rise in popularity of superheroes in the early 60's was the start of it all. The publishers chased the money and flooded the market with superhero titles, pushing out the romance books that weren't selling as well. Still, as Ish pointed out, I think the content probably played as big a part. By the late 60's and early 70's, female readers probably weren't satisfied with antiquated stories written by grown men who knew little to nothing about pop culture or what it meant to be a female. Superhero stories could get by being a bit out of it culturally if the heroes, villains and adventures were exciting. With a romance books, human interaction is the center of everything, so those limitations don't cut it. Still, there were always females who were fans of those male power fantasies, which always fascinated me. I remember reading the letters page of an early Walt Simonson issue where a female fan was complaining about how he was drawing Thor. She was a long-time reader, apparently in her mid-20's if memory serves. Of course the X-Men during the Claremont years always had as strong female following relative to most other superhero titles. Claremont was one of the first mainstream writers to portray females as being as capable as their male counterparts, so it's no wonder that female readers gravitated toward the X-Men. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 13, 2016 10:06:54 GMT -5
Mean Girls follows The Hero Mono-Myth Cycle. Agreed! It's all about the agressive, "take no prisoner" outlook on life. Maggie Thatcher was very Campbellian. (Campbellesque?) |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 13, 2016 11:44:37 GMT -5
I think its quite clear that women where leaving comics behind way before the opening of comic stores and the direct market. Romance books were evaporating left and right all during the 1970s. Comic book stores that were male oriented where the result, not the impetus
Again, hating to generalize because women will read the occasionally action comic and all other genres. But it seems to me that what really attracts their readership is dealings with characters and relationships, not punching and gore
Even before the rise of romance comics, females were reading the plethora of teen humor books that were on the newsstands, the Archie types of books, Millie the Model and others. Yes-newspaper strip reprint books too. But late 60s and 1970s Archie comics were too juvenile for the women as they got older and they had no bearing on what was occurring in real life
Man, do I miss having the opinions here on this forum of the few females that were regulars. That lack of diversity is truly crippling. Its also a partial reflection of what happened in the marketplace
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 13, 2016 15:02:10 GMT -5
I think its quite clear that women where leaving comics behind way before the opening of comic stores and the direct market. Romance books were evaporating left and right all during the 1970s. Comic book stores that were male oriented where the result, not the impetus
Again, hating to generalize because women will read the occasionally action comic and all other genres. But it seems to me that what really attracts their readership is dealings with characters and relationships, not punching and gore Even before the rise of romance comics, females were reading the plethora of teen humor books that were on the newsstands, the Archie types of books, Millie the Model and others. Yes-newspaper strip reprint books too. But late 60s and 1970s Archie comics were too juvenile for the women as they got older and they had no bearing on what was occurring in real life Man, do I miss having the opinions here on this forum of the few females that were regulars. That lack of diversity is truly crippling. Its also a partial reflection of what happened in the marketplace Yeah, I hate to bring it up, but I was totally thinking as I read this thread that, unfortunately we have somehow done the same thing here. |
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Post by MDG on Jul 13, 2016 15:22:25 GMT -5
I think its quite clear that women where leaving comics behind way before the opening of comic stores and the direct market. Romance books were evaporating left and right all during the 1970s. Comic book stores that were male oriented where the result, not the impetusSo, does this also correlate to when the comic audience moved from constantly churning groups of younger readers to long-time fans? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 13, 2016 15:33:03 GMT -5
I think its quite clear that women where leaving comics behind way before the opening of comic stores and the direct market. Romance books were evaporating left and right all during the 1970s. Comic book stores that were male oriented where the result, not the impetusSo, does this also correlate to when the comic audience moved from constantly churning groups of younger readers to long-time fans? My completely unsubstantiated take on that is that long-term fans, all 20,000 of them, remained constant while the 200,000 revolving door readers all vanished when proper video games became the thing. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Jul 13, 2016 15:40:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I hate to bring it up, but I was totally thinking as I read this thread that, unfortunately we have somehow done the same thing here. With roughly a hundred regularly active members, 2% of them currently being female, that's probably an accurate reflection of the number of males vs. females that read and appreciate classic superhero comic books. Fortunately, that's no longer the case with modern comics, and some reports show women outbuying/outreading men in the current comic book market, but not so much with superhero comics of the past. Now, if you check out The Archie Fan Forum, you'll find that women are actually the majority (I believe) because that is a franchise and genre that has traditionally catered to and adequately represented women. The superhero comics we largely focus on here? Not so much. Considering how respectful, thoughtful, and welcoming a community this is, it's my sincere hope that we can begin to attract more female members (though, despite assumptions otherwise, we do have two regular female contributors. I won't single them out). But, in order to do this, we either need to attract more of the incredibly small minority of women who are serious fans of classic male-dominated superhero comics, or we have to broaden our classic comic conversations to give more focus to comics that are not male-dominated superhero books. We do have some of these conversations, of course, but more talk about Archie, Vertigo, WaRP, Fantagraphics, and other such publishers featuring works that are more inclusive of female characters, more targeted to female readership, and make more use of female creative talents, would certainly help. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 13, 2016 15:44:26 GMT -5
Dunno about America, but in Britain there was a clear division between comics for boys and comics for girls, and girls titles were still very much in evidence until the 1990s, when most of them bit the dust.I doubt that had any connection to prevailing trends in the USA, though.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 13, 2016 19:01:18 GMT -5
I can't really blame female readers around our ages, and certainly younger, for not being thrilled with most classic comics. I love Marvel's Silver Age and I'm having a ball reading it chronologically, but it's tough to accept the vapid representation of female characters in the 60's even when you're armed with a full understanding of the historical context. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd probably have a hard time warming up to these comics. Given our society, white males almost never have to confront these kinds of basic difficulties when it comes to representation in pop culture. I try to be mindful of this.
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 13, 2016 20:58:53 GMT -5
Come on, it's not Waids best work, but I can't believe it chased any one away.   |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 21:30:45 GMT -5
1. I think certain genres (superheroes, westerns, war comics) were always male dominated. Female readers liked the romance titles or Archie Comics. When the Silver Age came along superheroes dominated so female readership drifted away.
2. Can't answer.
3. I have two adult daughters. One loves comics & will read superhero comics if there is a female hero as part of the team or star of a solo series. She does not enjoy Silver Age titles. She will read anything printed from the late 80's until today.
The other is a more casual reader. She only reads stuff like the new Archie titles or series like Spidey Loves Mary Jane. She will not read anything printed before 2000. She even skips the reprints in the new Archie Comics.
And both are big readers of novels. And they prefer actual books not Kindle, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 21:48:43 GMT -5
It seems to me that the shady environments of some comic shops is what drove female readers away. When female readers could simply go to a newsstand and buy their comics, they didn't have to deal with lecherous looks and snide misogyny. I guess my experience is unusual. I have only bought from 2 LCS. The first one I worked at while in college. The majority of the customers were male but the female readers were not treated poorly. In fact one of the cashiers was female. The second one I have bought at since 1990. It is owned by a former teacher & it is run very well. I have never seen any bad behavior towards females there. He has quite a few female readers that come in weekly. He also does a lot of community work. He has donated a ton of trade collections to the local library.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 15, 2016 12:31:40 GMT -5
Today's comic book shops are brightly lit and open. I do see women occasionally within the stores and usually with daughter's or son's in tow looking but not finding what they seek. The problem these days is that the stores have become isolated in catering to whatever is going to make them the most money. None of the shops around here have a large "dedicated" area for comics that children or women would enjoy. Normally a stand or corner with only a few samplings of various Disney or Archie comics. And the staff are almost always men: either young college guys who read only what the newest cool comics are or it is older men who are part time help which again they may be wider read but their focus is not on female friendly comics. It is the dealers/owners who could improve this entire demographic within their stores if they wished. But every business is sales driven so no matter what they choose to do it won't last unless there are buyers on a regular basis and enough purchases making it important to keep them returning.
What is more important to them is the money being spent, not the gender. Every shop here has multiple walls or counters filled to the brim with trading card of Pokemon, Yugioh and such with days or weekends even dedicated to tournaments where the 10-20 year olds gather and spend readily.
You see walls with price marked up/over priced action figures for the kids and collector crowd. Even a dedicated closed counter for outrageously priced statues because 1 statue sale will pay the electric bill for the month of the store.
You won't find a ladies evening group discussion of comics as that crowd isn't a cash cow in purchasing for the shops.
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