|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Jul 19, 2016 10:39:30 GMT -5
It's amazing to me that the value of Englehart and Roger's work wasn't immediately recognized at DC, but apparently...
"Marshall and I were ordered into [Joe Orlando's] office on a number of occasions, whereupon, in a display of red-faced screaming through foam-flecked lips worthy of a Marine drill instructor, Joe would loudly inform us how worthless we were and how our paltry efforts were unfit to grace the insides of a book with the DC imprint on the cover. I don't know how Marshall felt about it, but I know that I might have taken his opinion more to heart if it hadn't been coming from the one very boring, pedestrian artist that had graced the EC stable"
Steve Englehart "The BatCave Companion" p.208 ed: Michael Eury.
Their run actually began with, I think, Detective 463 though it would only be found in the back-up tales at that point. The stories were linked together via The Calculator who would go after and defeat one superhero after another (The Atom, Green Arrow, Hawkman, Elongated Man, Black Canary). Both Englehart and Rogers wanted to work on Batman but couldn't simply walk in uninvited so sort of snuck him into the story so as to get that chance. |
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 19, 2016 10:40:10 GMT -5
To prepare those of you who have never seen Marshall Rogers' art here is a cover he did for a reprint edition. Look at that detail. I apologize in advance for how much I will rave about his art. IMO he was one of the best artists during the Bronze Age. Wow even reprints of this run of Batman aren't cheap. And I agree. While I remember liking the story reprinted in the Joker TPB, it was always Marshal's art that I remember. And while I liked his Surfer art, this shines as his best to me. And those covers of Shadow of the Batman are beautiful. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 11:46:24 GMT -5
It's amazing to me that the value of Englehart and Roger's work wasn't immediately recognized at DC, but apparently...
"Marshall and I were ordered into [Joe Orlando's] office on a number of occasions, whereupon, in a display of red-faced screaming through foam-flecked lips worthy of a Marine drill instructor, Joe would loudly inform us how worthless we were and how our paltry efforts were unfit to grace the insides of a book with the DC imprint on the cover. I don't know how Marshall felt about it, but I know that I might have taken his opinion more to heart if it hadn't been coming from the one very boring, pedestrian artist that had graced the EC stable"
Steve Englehart "The BatCave Companion" p.208 ed: Michael Eury.
Their run actually began with, I think, Detective 463 though it would only be found in the back-up tales at that point. The stories were linked together via The Calculator who would go after and defeat one superhero after another (The Atom, Green Arrow, Hawkman, Elongated Man, Black Canary). Both Englehart and Rogers wanted to work on Batman but couldn't simply walk in uninvited so sort of snuck him into the story so as to get that chance. I had to do some digging. The Calculator story did run in the back ups in Tec #463-468. It was written by Bob Rozakis. Mike Grell did the art on 463-464. Ernie Chan did 465. And Rogers did 466-468. #468 was Roger's first work on Batman but NOT with Englehart. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:00:57 GMT -5
To show his skills beyond buildings here is my favorite Dr Strange cover Marshall Rogers drew. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:06:51 GMT -5
And one of his Mr Miracle covers:  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:09:27 GMT -5
"The Dead Yet Live" by Steve Englehart, Marshall Rogers & Terry Austin.
Closeup of Rupert Thorne in a smoke filled room. He throws a picture of the Batman down with a red X drawn on it. Next panel shows the whole room. The detail is amazing. The City Council is around a table discussing how to get rid of Batman. Nice recap of the last 2 issues & a mention of a Ras Al Ghul story from Tec 444-448. In a few panels Englehart shows how to do continuity like a master. A pebble falls into the fireplace & it shows that Batman is in the chimney listening. He escapes before he is discovered but realizes he has not recovered from his radiation burns he received fighting Phosphorus.
Batman returns home & discusses with Alfred seeking outside medical attention at a place recommended by a friend of Bruce Wayne ( a Jerry Robinson!). Bruce calls Silver to let her know he will be getting medical treatment. By the tone of their conversation it is implied Bruce spent a "night of passion" with her. Alfred is even surprised. Bruce then goes to Graytowers Clinic & checks in. He is drugged & slips into a nightmare. When he comes to he states "I never have nightmares! I give nightmares!". When he pounds on the door a guard tells him he is in an insane asylum.
Meanwhile Silver comes to visit Bruce at Graytowers & is turned away. That night Bruce escapes wearing his Batman costume that he had in a secret compartment of his suitcase. When he escapes he tangles with mutated men that look like monsters. He breaks into the clinic & confronts the doctor who reveals himself as...
Hugo Strange. A villain that Batman thought was dead from way back in Tec #46! He reveals he has been in Europe this whole time to return to fight Batman. He greatly admires Batman & states " Only The Batman can offer Hugo Strange a challenge!". He talks awhile longer of his respect & admiration of Batman. Batman punches Strange & while he is standing over him a snake drops down from the ceiling & bites Batman. He collapses but Strange administers the anti venom. When Batman revives he finds Strange standing over him with his mask in his hands. Strange states "Your secrets are secrets no longer...Bruce Wayne!"....to be continued. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:44:02 GMT -5
When I first read this of course I was consumed by the art. Rogers had a way of drawing such detail of a room or building. His art set the mood. His rooms were smoke filled. Gotham was overcast. His use of shadows was awesome on a character like Batman.
But Englehart's writing was so much better than his previous 2 issues. Part of it was the pacing of the story & his use of an obscure Golden Age villain was astounding. With Strange's respect of Batman & discovery of his ID his credibility as a villain worthy of Batman shot thru the roof.
He even established Silver as a worthy love interest of Bruce with a few panels.
IMO this was comic book nirvana. The perfect balance of character, concept, writing & artwork. |
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Jul 19, 2016 14:27:16 GMT -5
To prepare those of you who have never seen Marshall Rogers' art here is a cover he did for a reprint edition. Look at that detail. I apologize in advance for how much I will rave about his art. IMO he was one of the best artists during the Bronze Age. Even though I had the original issues, I bought the series for the additional art. Marshall Rogers is my favorite Batman artist of all time. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:33:07 GMT -5
Last panel on page 12 of #471:  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:45:29 GMT -5
Last panel on page 12 of #471: That's a cool panel and I never knew that Batman's cape can be that (It's appears to be over 20 feet) big across and those two giants made it quite an impressive scene in #471! |
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 19, 2016 16:24:44 GMT -5
Extremely exaggerated cape and ears on the cowl are two of the things most of my favorite Batman artists do. Matt Wagner is one of the few that draws a very conservative Batman costume that I still like.
|
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Jul 19, 2016 23:32:59 GMT -5
It's amazing to me that the value of Englehart and Roger's work wasn't immediately recognized at DC, but apparently...
"Marshall and I were ordered into [Joe Orlando's] office on a number of occasions, whereupon, in a display of red-faced screaming through foam-flecked lips worthy of a Marine drill instructor, Joe would loudly inform us how worthless we were and how our paltry efforts were unfit to grace the insides of a book with the DC imprint on the cover. I don't know how Marshall felt about it, but I know that I might have taken his opinion more to heart if it hadn't been coming from the one very boring, pedestrian artist that had graced the EC stable"
Steve Englehart "The BatCave Companion" p.208 ed: Michael Eury.
Their run actually began with, I think, Detective 463 though it would only be found in the back-up tales at that point. The stories were linked together via The Calculator who would go after and defeat one superhero after another (The Atom, Green Arrow, Hawkman, Elongated Man, Black Canary). Both Englehart and Rogers wanted to work on Batman but couldn't simply walk in uninvited so sort of snuck him into the story so as to get that chance. I had to do some digging. The Calculator story did run in the back ups in Tec #463-468. It was written by Bob Rozakis. Mike Grell did the art on 463-464. Ernie Chan did 465. And Rogers did 466-468. #468 was Roger's first work on Batman but NOT with Englehart.
Whoops! Change "Englehart and Rogers" to "Bob Rozakis" then.
"I was trying to get more freelance writing and came up with an idea of a villain who would fight the different heroes in succession. At the time, there were rotating heroes in the Detective backup slot, so it was a great spot for it. Julie [Schwartz] liked the idea and I was able to run with it. My goal was to ultimately write a Batman story on my own... That was why the Calculator's plans led to a confrontation with the Caped Crusader."
Bob Rozakis from The BatCave Companion p. 207.
|
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Jul 19, 2016 23:39:50 GMT -5
I kind of wonder where these characters were being brought back from. Hugo Strange last appeared in Batman 1, I believe; the Joker of course, was a regular but his participation here will be heavily influenced by that issue as well; Deadshot had made one appearance back in Batman 59 which, I don't think has ever been reprinted. I can understand remembering an obscure story from your childhood that you want to revisit/elaborate on/use but Englehart would have been too young to have read that Deadshot tale back in 1951. I suspect that given the influence of Batman 1 on his run, Englehart must have picked up the fairly recently released Famous First Edition of that comic and was more likely than not flipping through Michael Fleisher's Batman Encyclopedia to have resurrected Floyd Lawton. I've always wondered though - if you work for DC, are you allowed to simply go into their vault and flip through any comic you want for research?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 8:26:34 GMT -5
My absolute favorite run on Batman. Among the very first comics I ever read and Batman seemed larger than life (even more than usual) to me, thanks to the beautiful art! I really love the scenes with Bruce/Batman and Silver. I have the Strange Apparitions tpb, good, good stuff!
|
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 20, 2016 8:45:21 GMT -5
It's amazing to me that the value of Englehart and Roger's work wasn't immediately recognized at DC, but apparently...
"Marshall and I were ordered into [Joe Orlando's] office on a number of occasions, whereupon, in a display of red-faced screaming through foam-flecked lips worthy of a Marine drill instructor, Joe would loudly inform us how worthless we were and how our paltry efforts were unfit to grace the insides of a book with the DC imprint on the cover. I don't know how Marshall felt about it, but I know that I might have taken his opinion more to heart if it hadn't been coming from the one very boring, pedestrian artist that had graced the EC stable"
Steve Englehart "The BatCave Companion" p.208 ed: Michael Eury.
Their run actually began with, I think, Detective 463 though it would only be found in the back-up tales at that point. The stories were linked together via The Calculator who would go after and defeat one superhero after another (The Atom, Green Arrow, Hawkman, Elongated Man, Black Canary). Both Englehart and Rogers wanted to work on Batman but couldn't simply walk in uninvited so sort of snuck him into the story so as to get that chance. Mind boggling that Orlando didn't see how great their work was. I have to say that I would have never cut it in the comics biz back in the day when editors acted like that. I would have been arrested for assault. |
|
