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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 21:59:32 GMT -5
I have never read any of these...one question why is Ghost Rider riding this ugly motorcycle instead of his usual one?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 0:09:55 GMT -5
I have never read any of these...one question why is Ghost Rider riding this ugly motorcycle instead of his usual one? He rode that bike for a while in his own book, when Marvel wanted to make him look more like a super-hero and less a supernatural type.  |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 26, 2016 2:08:26 GMT -5
It was always an ill-fitting team but they seemed to function well together enough. It was nice to see some of the X-Men 'graduate' and I miss the outfit that Byrne designed for Iceman. It also gave us what I still think is the best costume Angel ever wore, the red and white variant of the Neal Adams costume. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 26, 2016 2:12:32 GMT -5
But I still think Iceman and Angel are the dullest characters created by the Lee/Kirby team! Angel has always been my favourite X-Man, and easily one of my top ten favourite superheroes, but I agree that Iceman's nothing special. |
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Post by Mormel on Jul 26, 2016 16:57:41 GMT -5
Well, I count Bobby and Warren among my all-time favourite X-Men, and that's the main reason I picked up a TPB of this series. Reading it from issue to issue, I felt as though a reason why the book failed could be that it took so long for the premise to find its footing. They claim to be the team that stands up for 'the little guy', but in actuality not much of that gets off the ground. By issue 7 or 8 they are still officially announcing their formation (to the public). That's pretty bad.
On the positive side, Champions endeared me to Black Widow, a character I had previously not cared much about. It was especially refreshing to see her in this leadership role.
Rampage always makes me laugh for some reason. An over-the-top zealot with a mundane power set. The other villains that appear in this were pretty cool, but then I've always had a soft spot for Griffin and Dynamo.
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Post by berkley on Jul 26, 2016 20:54:42 GMT -5
I think Iceman suffered from a kind of uninspiring visual and Angel from a bit of a weak persona and power-set. A "cold" equivalent to the Human Torch's "heat" seems like an obvious thing to do, but the character design was never as dynamic or impressive looking as the Torch's flame. Angel, OTOH, had a great look - winged men and women always look pretty cool - but they never came up with anything besides that for him, in contrast to, say, Hawkman at DC.
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 27, 2016 1:22:49 GMT -5
I think Iceman suffered from a kind of uninspiring visual and Angel from a bit of a weak persona and power-set. A "cold" equivalent to the Human Torch's "heat" seems like an obvious thing to do, but the character design was never as dynamic or impressive looking as the Torch's flame. Angel, OTOH, had a great look - winged men and women always look pretty cool - but they never came up with anything besides that for him, in contrast to, say, Hawkman at DC. I don't think Warren had a "weak persona", it's just that a lot of writers never really seemed to know what to do with him. When handled by a writer who actually cares, he's a great character. There's a three part Angel solo story from the early 70s that I absolutely love because it plays t his strengths and makes him a really compelling character. On the other hand, I hate pretty much everything that's been done with him since they made him Archangel, a pointless move which I think ruined the character. |
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Post by Mormel on Jul 28, 2016 1:52:12 GMT -5
I think Iceman suffered from a kind of uninspiring visual and Angel from a bit of a weak persona and power-set. A "cold" equivalent to the Human Torch's "heat" seems like an obvious thing to do, but the character design was never as dynamic or impressive looking as the Torch's flame. Angel, OTOH, had a great look - winged men and women always look pretty cool - but they never came up with anything besides that for him, in contrast to, say, Hawkman at DC. I don't think Warren had a "weak persona", it's just that a lot of writers never really seemed to know what to do with him. When handled by a writer who actually cares, he's a great character. There's a three part Angel solo story from the early 70s that I absolutely love because it plays t his strengths and makes him a really compelling character. On the other hand, I hate pretty much everything that's been done with him since they made him Archangel, a pointless move which I think ruined the character. Is that the one in Ka-Zar where he fights his uncle ('the Dazzler', no relation to the singer)? I feel as though 'Champions' itself may have something to do with the perception of Bobby and Warren being 'less compelling' characters because around that time, as ex-X-Men they were overshadowed by Beast, who got a thorough makeover at the hands of Englehart first in 'Amazing Adventures' and then 'Avengers'; as well as Cyclops in his role as mentor of the all-new X-Men and Jean Grey's transformation into Phoenix. Next to that, Angel and Iceman's stint on the Champs didn't break new ground. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 28, 2016 2:08:16 GMT -5
I don't think Warren had a "weak persona", it's just that a lot of writers never really seemed to know what to do with him. When handled by a writer who actually cares, he's a great character. There's a three part Angel solo story from the early 70s that I absolutely love because it plays t his strengths and makes him a really compelling character. On the other hand, I hate pretty much everything that's been done with him since they made him Archangel, a pointless move which I think ruined the character. Is that the one in Ka-Zar where he fights his uncle ('the Dazzler', no relation to the singer)? I feel as though 'Champions' itself may have something to do with the perception of Bobby and Warren being 'less compelling' characters because around that time, as ex-X-Men they were overshadowed by Beast, who got a thorough makeover at the hands of Englehart first in 'Amazing Adventures' and then 'Avengers'; as well as Cyclops in his role as mentor of the all-new X-Men and Jean Grey's transformation into Phoenix. Next to that, Angel and Iceman's stint on the Champs didn't break new ground. I think you may be right, sadly. But I enjoyed all of their various appearances in the 70s and early 80s, it was always a treat when Warren in particular showed up. And yes, it was indeed the Dazzler story I was referring to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 10:12:00 GMT -5
I have the 2 tpb of The Champions and they are fun stories to read. Kind of an odd mishmash of characters that ended up working well together. I know the series only lasted 17 issues, but for me it is a gem from the 70s.
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RikerDonegal
Full Member
Most of the comics I'm reading at the moment are Marvels from 1982.
Posts: 128 
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Post by RikerDonegal on Sept 12, 2016 6:40:15 GMT -5
I like the idea of the series better than the execution. By and large I like the characters (especially Black Widow and Ghost Rider) but as everyone says they didn't make sense as an ongoing team. Read the series in 2014/5 and most stories are middle-of-the-road generic stuff. Fine. But nothing to get excited about.
The best thing about the group by-far was their break-up, in Spectacular Spider-Man #17, which was actually a great story (by Bill Mantlo) which made me really feel for Warren and what he was trying to do.
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Post by tingramretro on Sept 12, 2016 8:28:34 GMT -5
I like the idea of the series better than the execution. By and large I like the characters (especially Black Widow and Ghost Rider) but as everyone says they didn't make sense as an ongoing team. Read the series in 2014/5 and most stories are middle-of-the-road generic stuff. Fine. But nothing to get excited about. The best thing about the group by-far was their break-up, in Spectacular Spider-Man #17, which was actually a great story (by Bill Mantlo) which made me really feel for Warren and what he was trying to do. I really enjoyed that story, too. Even if the reveal of who was in the Rampage suit was fairly predictable. |
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