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Post by masterofquackfu on Jul 25, 2016 9:31:28 GMT -5
The Champs. Well, they've also been maligned and pretty much considered outcasts..damaged goods..in the Marvel universe. Hell, Marvel didn't care enough to even extend the copyright on this team. I know the concept was bit hokey..having the Black Widow, Hercules, Angel, Ghost Rider, etc. team up...yeah, they made the Defenders look like a tight knit group. But, they've kind of grown on me a bit. Kind of like a secret pleasure. It is such an oddball group that it makes for quite a novel and interesting concept. They only survived for 17 issues, but I feel that it is one that deserves a little more respect in comic lore than it has received. Any opinions on this team?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 25, 2016 10:06:37 GMT -5
They had early John Byrne art toward the end, right? Just that earns them bonus points in my book.
I liked the team well enough when it was introduced, even if I really, really didn't like the Don Heck art. The concept of Rampage, the recession-born anti-hero, was pretty cool despite the ugly costume.
The interaction between the characters was something new; I could see why Johnny Blaze would want to have friends, even though he wasn't very good at it; likewise, it made sense for Natasha (at the time) to get away from Daredevil's shadow. Angle and Iceman were out of the X-Men, and their return to the hero gig also made sense... after all, they had had many good years at it.
I wouldn't go out of my way to order back issues, but it's certainly the kind of comic I'd be happy to buy if I came across it. Nice, fun and unpretentious '70s super-hero stuff.
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 25, 2016 10:18:56 GMT -5
I really liked the book, I made a point of collecting the complete run and I really wish they'd stuck around longer. I think it would have gotten interesting if it had lasted long enough for them to develop the team a bit more (I know there were plans to add Black Goliath to the lineup).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 10:23:38 GMT -5
My only problem with this team is Ghost Rider on it and I usually associate him a much of a loner rather a group operative working as a group and making contributions to. I also have to agree with RR that they were fun and unpretentious and having said that this team did not get the respect it's deserve and I was stunned that it's only lasted 17 issues and I did like this group but never brought an single issue because they were forgotten and I've blamed Marvel for not promoting them ... with a question mark.
They were cool, hip, and very different and it's even has Black Widow and I adore her very much!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 25, 2016 12:01:37 GMT -5
The book always smacked to me of "Team books are selling, what heroes do we have available that aren't doing anything? Okay...throw them in a team book."
I think I've only read a couple of issues. They didn't impress me.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jul 25, 2016 12:02:31 GMT -5
It was always an ill-fitting team but they seemed to function well together enough. It was nice to see some of the X-Men 'graduate' and I miss the outfit that Byrne designed for Iceman.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 25, 2016 12:39:54 GMT -5
This was a concept that didn't have a concept. It was pointless, and it showed. The idea was simply, let's make a team book, and then they just threw in a bunch of random characters with no attempt to figure out chemistry, or have the team make any sense. That's essentially because it was created by committee. Tony Isabella originally pitched a buddy road trip series - I guess kind of like GL/GA hard traveling heroes - with Iceman and Angel. Editorial then completely overhauled it into The Champions, saddling it with all sorts of arbitrary requirements. Here's what Isabella had to say about the team's creation: "my relative dislike of the Champions comes mostly from it not being the book I wanted to write. I pitched a “buddies on the road” series starring Iceman and the Angel. Sort of Route 66 with super-heroes. My original idea was trashed during a meeting with the editors that, in retrospect, was hilarious. Imagine the then-writer of Fantastic FOUR telling me that a super-hero team had to have FIVE members. And then following that with equally insane proclamations like: every super-hero team needed a strong guy, every super-hero team needed a woman, and, finally, the utterly insane notion that every super-hero team needed one member who had his own title as well. Given the editorial proclamations, I think I wrote some okay comic books for the series. But it was never the book I wanted it to be." mysteryisland.net/tonyisabella
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 13:04:27 GMT -5
It's the book that gave us Swarm!!!!! If for nothing else it gets props from me for that!
-M
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 25, 2016 14:22:06 GMT -5
Tony wrote a little more about the Champs in his blog: "The short version...I originally pitched the Champions as a “buddy book” starring the Angel and the Iceman, who has recently left the X-Men. It was Route 66 with mutants, just two good-looking heroes from different backgrounds traveling the country, meeting gorgeous young woman and helping people wherever they went. I thought that teaming the wealthy Warren Worthington with the middle-class Bobby Drake would be great fun. After editorial edicts that every super-hero team had to have five members (like the Fantastic Four), that every super-hero team had to have someone with super-strength (Hercules), that every super-hero team had to have a woman (Black Widow) and that every super-hero team had to have at least one member who also had his own series (Ghost Rider), Marvel and me ended up with the Champions as they actually appeared in the comic books. I tried to make sense of this strange team and, though a great many readers have told me over the years how much they loved the series, I don’t believe I succeeded." and "When Len Wein laid down the commandment that every super-hero team needed a member who also had his own book, he suggested Luke Cage be added to the Champions. Which struck me as just about the worst choice for the position. For one thing, the Champions were located in Los Angeles and Cage was located in New York City. For another, I wasn’t writing Cage at the time and would have to coordinate any such move with Cage’s writer...and I was certain the writer would not want to uproot Luke from Manhattan, a position with which I was in absolute agreement. I briefly considered Black Goliath, but I didn’t want to add Bill Foster to the team until his own title was more underway. It was always my intention to add him at a future date, which is why Black Goliath was also set in Los Angeles. I went with Ghost Rider for the most devious of reasons. Since I was writing Ghost Rider, I knew I could keep Johnny Blaze so busy in his own book that his Champions appearances could be limited to the occasional storyline. Of course, I never gave that reason to Wein. Len was just pleased that I was obeying his new commandment." tonyisabella.blogspot.com/search?q=Champions
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 25, 2016 15:53:49 GMT -5
I encountered them on three occasions.
The Marvel Holiday Treasury where they have a snowball fight in Los Angeles.
The time they ran into Godzilla in San Francisco.
Iron Man Annual #4, but I was really there for Modok.
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Post by The Captain on Jul 25, 2016 16:13:35 GMT -5
I own the entire series, read it once, and have not really thoight about it since. The biggest problem, as others have mentioned, is that there is no reason these five characters should be on a team together, and as such, it is a disjointed mess.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 25, 2016 16:34:44 GMT -5
I enjoyed the Champions book most of the time, hot mess though it was, which is remarkable when you consider it had only one character I actually liked (Ghost Rider). It was also my first exposure to John Byrne, who I knew at first glance was gonna be big. I had the complete run at one point, dumped it during The Great Collection Purge of '88, and finally reacquired it in TPB form a few years back. it isn't any better now than it was in the Seventies but I still have am inexplicable fondness for it.
Cei-U! But I still think Iceman and Angel are the dullest characters created by the Lee/Kirby team!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 25, 2016 20:31:49 GMT -5
I only read the first and final issues of The Champions, and neither impressed me in the least. CB nailed my feelings on the small bit that I read: This was a concept that didn't have a concept. It was pointless, and it showed. The idea was simply, let's make a team book, and then they just threw in a bunch of random characters with no attempt to figure out chemistry, or have the team make any sense.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 25, 2016 20:44:13 GMT -5
I thought that the heroes that they used had no chemistry whatsoever. Black Widow with Hercules? No way.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 25, 2016 20:55:29 GMT -5
I encountered them on three occasions. The Marvel Holiday Treasury where they have a snowball fight in Los Angeles. The time they ran into Godzilla in San Francisco. Iron Man Annual #4, but I was really there for Modok. I always felt like the team was totally random, but they were amusing enough in the Iron Man Annual... I actually may grab the collection they jsut solicited if the mood strikes me when I do my DCBS order.
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