Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,210 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 8, 2016 11:30:31 GMT -5
Both Terry Austin & Dick Giordano are amazing artists but I definitely liked Austin's inks over Giordano's on Marshall Rogers & John Byrne. Ooh yes, Terry Austin is a lovely inker. I'm only recalling him inking Carmine Infantino's pencils at the moment, which produced some rather nice results, but I'm sure that I've enjoyed his inking of other artists as well. I just can't remember any right now.  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 8, 2016 11:41:51 GMT -5
The first time I ever began to notice a colorist's work was in the very early 70s for DC Comics. Tatjana Wood clearly stood out. I believe she, along with production manager Sol Harrison, were working on ways to increase the color palette used in comics, including additional tints and overlays. She won SHAZAM awards for her work in 1971 and 1974, was DC's chief cover colorist in the 70s and 80s and was the wife of Wally Wood
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Post by MDG on Aug 8, 2016 11:45:27 GMT -5
I've often thought of the penciller/inker relationship as similar to that of a director and cinematographer: the director determines what's going to be on the screen, but how it actually looks to the audience is the work of the cinematographer.
(Also, cynical MDG could be convinced that Stan Lee started crediting inkers and letterers so he could start establishing a precedent for getting his name on stories where he wasn't a primary creator.)
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Post by MWGallaher on Aug 8, 2016 12:47:47 GMT -5
A good inker complements the pencils. A bad inker will overpower the pencils so much that you almost don't recognize the pencils. A good letterer also enhances the art & affects the flow of the story. A bad letterer will place balloons in places that obscure the art or make it hard to follow the story. The colorist role has changed with computer coloring. Before they had only a limited amount of colors to choose from & had to work with ratios & patterns to achieve a certain color. Today's colorist has a variety of colors & shades to work with but is responsible for a lot of effects that were not possible a few decades ago. And yet, I've read so many fans laud the work of Alfredo Alcala. He has overpowered every job he's ever done. That is probably true. But we're operating under at least two definitions of a "bad inker". Most would probably not argue that Alcala's inks were aesthetically "bad"; aesthetics are what put him in my category of a very good inker. One could argue that they sometimes did a "bad" job of preserving a penciller's style. His work on Rampaging Hulk, for example, buried the very powerful and distinctive style of Walt Simonson, who in most other instances is especially distinctive. And speaking, as md62 was, about balloon placement, I just wanted to mention that Jim Aparo often did the lettering first. I was really surprised to see one of his pages in progress with panel borders, caption boxes, and word balloons and nothing else! That's one way to make sure the lettering never obscures critical art elements! |
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Post by MDG on Aug 8, 2016 13:57:51 GMT -5
Well, the whole penciller/inker thing is a construct of the studio "assembly line" devised in the GA to churn out pages. And while in the "work for hire" model, pencillers are often the stars, I believe in "studio" environments, people like Eisner and Adams would often do the inking over someone else's pencils to control the final look (though they would probably have done the layouts).
So while Alcala might be aesthetically pleasing, it's not the look Buscema intended. But it wasn't his call--it was the editor's.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 9, 2016 16:42:35 GMT -5
Personally i like many of the heavier/stylistic inkers as they added some much needed depth and weight to many of the pencilers. Klaus Janson i felt always improved upon what he was given form plainer pencil artists and while a weaker style of pencil would be lost amidst his inks other artists who had a stronger style he helped show them off. Frank Miller, Sal Buscema, George Perez and John Byrne were only a few that their strong pencils and layouts were visible under Janson inks to my teenage eyes.
I adore the Filipino artists who began in the 70's and thrived throughout the 80's. Each of them had a distinct visual style from each other and were splendid artists in their own sense. Most of them benefited from inking over folks like John Buscema and Ernie Colon who were great artists in their own rights. The pencil artists provided a design and fluidity and grace to the action of comics where many of the Filipino inkers own pencil styles were more static and posed. Alfedo Alcala, Rudy Nebres, Ernie Chan, Gerry Taloac all did pencil and inks many times and their speed in delivering a finished product which looked gorgeous and luscious is why Marvel and DC editors would go to them time and again without fail. To provide spectacular art and on time before deadlines where other artists could not was the selling point!
Joe Sinnott and Tom Palmer became go to inkers because they had such a clean, pure line that enhanced whoever the were inking. Yes each was overwhelming to many of the pencils they inked, but their issues sold when others did not. Publishers take notice of such things and would place them over artists that were deemed or seemingly of lesser talent to enhance and keep sales strong. I know for myself any time i saw Sinnott or Palmer inks in a comic it many times made the issue more enjoyable and i might read that issue again and again when some other inks i might not enjoy as much i would pass over once read.
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Post by berkley on Aug 9, 2016 23:30:08 GMT -5
For me it's often a matter of personal taste when it comes to inkers who impose their own style over the penciller: I love Alcala's work but not, say, Rudy Nebres's.
I think there's another factor involved as well: as talented and accomplished as they were, John and Sal Buscema's pencils could often come across as a little bland, perhaps partly because of overwork, and thus I feel were sometimes all the better for some spicing up by inkers like Alcala or Klaus Janson, respectively, or Tom Palmer in both cases.
Joe Sinnott is a unique case, in my view: I consider him a great inker, but pretty much solely for his collaboration with Kirby on the FF. But his style seemed to make just about any other penciller I can think of look a little more bland to me.
But much as we old-timers like to wax nostalgic over the comics of yesteryear, I think we have to acknowledge it was a bad system when talented artists like Buscema and Alcala were forced to churn out so many pages that we probably never got to see their best work.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 9, 2016 23:48:36 GMT -5
Agreed with berkley's post. I have seen the penciled pages of John Buscema for Conan stories when he was churning out dozens per month. They were really just rough layouts, character's were basically stick figures and backgrounds close to nonexistent. Buscema himself had stated many times that he wasn't proud of this work, it was just a job. Inkers such as Alcala were following his layouts and made the pages publishable
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Post by berkley on Aug 10, 2016 0:20:00 GMT -5
Agreed with berkley's post. I have seen the penciled pages of John Buscema for Conan stories when he was churning out dozens per month. They were really just rough layouts, character's were basically stick figures and backgrounds close to nonexistent. Buscema himself had stated many times that he wasn't proud of this work, it was just a job. Inkers such as Alcala were following his layouts and made the pages publishable It's a touchy question, because I know a lot of our members here, including some of the ones I most respect, see artists like Barry Windsor-Smith (Dan will never forgive him adding that Windsor) or Bernie Wrightson as insufferable prima donnas for being unable and/or unwilling to keep up with the pace demanded by a monthly or even bi-monthly series. They would miss deadlines, force the dreaded reprint issue, etc, rather than submit work they weren't happy with. But I can't blame them for wanting to produce work they could be proud, or at least not ashamed, of any more than I can blame a guy like Sal Buscema for wanting to be a good employee and make as much money as he could to be a good provider for his family. |
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Post by dupersuper on Aug 10, 2016 22:27:35 GMT -5
I know Glenn Whitmore coloured the Superman books back in the triangle era that hooked me. I also know that Jurgens pencils look sketchy when Art Thibert inks them, great when Jurgens, Breeding or Perez inks him, and amazing when Ordway inks him. Mostly though, discussing inkers just makes me think of Chasing Amy... |
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Post by dupersuper on Aug 11, 2016 20:56:32 GMT -5
Sorry about the NSFW content. It honestly never even occurred to me. I even posted it at work...
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 12, 2016 5:26:05 GMT -5
Personally i like many of the heavier/stylistic inkers as they added some much needed depth and weight to many of the pencilers. Klaus Janson i felt always improved upon what he was given form plainer pencil artists and while a weaker style of pencil would be lost amidst his inks other artists who had a stronger style he helped show them off. Frank Miller, Sal Buscema, George Perez and John Byrne were only a few that their strong pencils and layouts were visible under Janson inks to my teenage eyes. I adore the Filipino artists who began in the 70's and thrived throughout the 80's. Each of them had a distinct visual style from each other and were splendid artists in their own sense. Most of them benefited from inking over folks like John Buscema and Ernie Colon who were great artists in their own rights. The pencil artists provided a design and fluidity and grace to the action of comics where many of the Filipino inkers own pencil styles were more static and posed. Alfedo Alcala, Rudy Nebres, Ernie Chan, Gerry Taloac all did pencil and inks many times and their speed in delivering a finished product which looked gorgeous and luscious is why Marvel and DC editors would go to them time and again without fail. To provide spectacular art and on time before deadlines where other artists could not was the selling point! Joe Sinnott and Tom Palmer became go to inkers because they had such a clean, pure line that enhanced whoever the were inking. Yes each was overwhelming to many of the pencils they inked, but their issues sold when others did not. Publishers take notice of such things and would place them over artists that were deemed or seemingly of lesser talent to enhance and keep sales strong. I know for myself any time i saw Sinnott or Palmer inks in a comic it many times made the issue more enjoyable and i might read that issue again and again when some other inks i might not enjoy as much i would pass over once read. I agree with your comment about heavy handed inkers with certain jobs. Gil Kane never looked better than when he was inked by Klaus Janson in What if? #3. |
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Post by MDG on Aug 12, 2016 8:13:09 GMT -5
I agree with your comment about heavy handed inkers with certain jobs. Gil Kane never looked better than when he was inked by Klaus Janson in What if? #3.They also paired on a couple of issues of DD just before Miller took over that are excellent. I think Sinnott's value was that he could ink anyone and it would look like a "Marvel book." More than any penciller, his inks kind've defined their house style in the 70s. Palmer, on the other hand, had a more "painterly" style that meshed well with some artists. I don't think anyone ever had a better understanding of how to ink Gene Colan's pencils. There was a period where it seemed DC had hardly any inkers that were better than "competent." Too much Colletta and Giella and Chiramonte. |
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Post by brutalis on Aug 12, 2016 8:35:39 GMT -5
I agree with your comment about heavy handed inkers with certain jobs. Gil Kane never looked better than when he was inked by Klaus Janson in What if? #3.They also paired on a couple of issues of DD just before Miller took over that are excellent. I think Sinnott's value was that he could ink anyone and it would look like a "Marvel book." More than any penciller, his inks kind've defined their house style in the 70s. Palmer, on the other hand, had a more "painterly" style that meshed well with some artists. I don't think anyone ever had a better understanding of how to ink Gene Colan's pencils. There was a period where it seemed DC had hardly any inkers that were better than "competent." Too much Colletta and Giella and Chiramonte. Everybody has different tastes for what they like in inking. While they are overpowering in their own sense: i really like Dave Hunt and Frank Chiaramonte's DC inking. Hunt over Byrne was pretty cool as well. Early Giella wasn't so bad but later Giella i felt most of his inks felt flat and ordinary. Back to Janson as i really liked his inks over Sal Buscema since you could see it was Sal's art and yet Janson added to what was there. |
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Post by brutalis on Aug 12, 2016 13:40:03 GMT -5
When it comes to lettering i think the 1st time i truly took notice was John Workman's stuff. Working with Chaykin and Simonson his style seemed to suit their artwork and especially his sound effects work stood out as unique.
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