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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 6, 2017 13:56:09 GMT -5
If the point is to bring exposure to them to people who may not be familiar with their work then it's a good tactic. Discussing "women who rocked comics", manga, historical comics or even the current popularity of trade paperback comic collections without referencing Riyoko Ikeda contributes to the erasure of her work. The authoritive tone of the post I quoted was a little hard to take seriously after that. If someone likes manga, it is doubtful that they haven't at least heard of her at some point. Mentioning Alan Moore and Chuck Dixon (see post-Judith Hunt Evangeline), while talking about "women who rocked comics" is not very thoughtful either, considering the content of some of their work and also the treatment of women who have criticized it by those writer's "fans". Alan Moore devotees immediately come to mind. I do not see that as "good", but I suppose I will hear plenty about how it is in due time. It doesn't erase her work by not mentioning her, especially if the omission is due to not knowing of her. We're just casual fans here not comic historians in the field so one cannot expect that we al know the minute details of the field. And mentioning Moore isn't a negative either, especially not in conjunction with Melinda Gebbie as not only is she is married to Moore but in context of the original post it's saying that even outside of the work she's done with Moore (which most readers are likely to be familiar with) she has a fantastic body of work outside of that. And it's the same with Hunt, if you recognize Dixon's name and you liked his work you may be interested in Hunt's. This simply isn't a gender issue, it's simply a way of making comparisons to get people to try new things they may not have exposure to. As another example of this, take the Clark Bar. If I wanted to get you to try one I could say, "It's a crispy, peanutbutter candy bar." but a simple description doesn't give a whole lot, but if I said, "It's like a butterfinger bar only it has a more natural peanutbutter flavor." you'd be more likely to be convinced as you now have a known context to compare what I've said to. |
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Post by Farrar on Apr 6, 2017 14:37:04 GMT -5
You know who should be better known? Lilly Renee.  Love Lily Renee! That Planet Comics cover has long been a favorite of mine (I'm always looking for a chance to use it in the Cover Contest). I also love her Senorita Rio (aka Rita--ahem--Farrar  ).  Lily Renee was at the 2007 SD Comic Con and I think that helped bring her to peoples' attention (and deservedly so). In addition to articles about her over the years in comic book-related publications such as Alter Ego, there was even an article in the mainstream press (Newsweek) back in 2010. www.newsweek.com/real-life-comic-book-superhero-74267And I'd guess that many of us already know about the book by Trina Robbins, Anne Timmons and Mo Oh, but just in case: www.amazon.com/Lily-Renee-Escape-Artist-Holocaust/dp/0761381147 |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 6, 2017 16:37:50 GMT -5
It doesn't erase her work by not mentioning her, especially if the omission is due to not knowing of her. We're just casual fans here not comic historians in the field so one cannot expect that we al know the minute details of the field. And mentioning Moore isn't a negative either, especially not in conjunction with Melinda Gebbie as not only is she is married to Moore but in context of the original post it's saying that even outside of the work she's done with Moore (which most readers are likely to be familiar with) she has a fantastic body of work outside of that. And it's the same with Hunt, if you recognize Dixon's name and you liked his work you may be interested in Hunt's. This simply isn't a gender issue, it's simply a way of making comparisons to get people to try new things they may not have exposure to. As another example of this, take the Clark Bar. If I wanted to get you to try one I could say, "It's a crispy, peanutbutter candy bar." but a simple description doesn't give a whole lot, but if I said, "It's like a butterfinger bar only it has a more natural peanutbutter flavor." you'd be more likely to be convinced as you now have a known context to compare what I've said to. Really? We must be looking at two different forums then, because I see plenty of discussion of historical minutiae all over the place. But getting caught up on a little thing like one of the most influential mangakas of all time who has authored books that have sold millions (many outside Japan) is an overreach? I am wrong then? C'est la vie. Alan Moore gets name-dropped enough. I don't care what the context is, I didn't like reading his name in a thread about "women who rocked comics". It is an emotional reaction, because I find him distasteful on multiple levels for personal reasons; one of which has already come to fruition by continuing to speak of him at all, so I am done. Clark Bars? 😒 There are certainly many knowledgeable posters here, but I doubt any would claim to be absolute experts in all aspects of comics, so yes I do believe it's an overreach to assume it was an intentional snub. And be that as it may about your personal feelings about Moore, but his name is recognizable and so when trying to bring exposure to those who may be ignorant of other creators is an effective technique, whether it be based on the tone of the work,"If you liked League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, then you'll like X" a collaboration with Moore that may be more familiar to casual readers, or in this case a personal connection that just gets people to stop and look. And Clark Bars are delicious, they're difficult to find but way better than Butterfingers. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 17:22:13 GMT -5
Wait? I though this was about this type of rock  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 6, 2017 17:25:53 GMT -5
That cover is so hideous I don't want to quote you and subject people to seeing it twice.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 17:39:11 GMT -5
And yet, it probably sold more units than todays comics do.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 6, 2017 18:03:46 GMT -5
And yet, it probably sold more units than todays comics do. And more people watched The Brady Bunch than watched The Sopranos. What's your point? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 18:53:17 GMT -5
Brady bunch was better than Sopranos.  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 6, 2017 19:50:29 GMT -5
Brady bunch was better than Sopranos. Alrighty then. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Apr 6, 2017 20:24:56 GMT -5
Brady bunch was better than Sopranos. Moments ago, it was my privilege to award you Best Reply. My sad duty is to be here again to present you with the trophy for Worst Reply. Congratulations. . ? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 21:20:21 GMT -5
Brady bunch was better than Sopranos. Moments ago, it was my privilege to award you Best Reply. My sad duty is to be here again to present you with the trophy for Worst Reply. Congratulations. . ? This is a rough forum. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 6, 2017 22:18:21 GMT -5
If we want to expand things, you have to mention Rumiko Takahashi, creator of Urusei Yatsura, Maison Ikkoku, Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha. She is a titan of the manga world; probably the female equivalent of Osamu Tezuka, in terms of impact on subsequent generations. Then there are Angela and Luciana Guissani, the creators of the massively popular Diabolik. Tove Jansson's Moomins is known worldwide. From the indie world: Jessica Abel and Sarah Dyer. I loved Dyer's Action Girl comic, plus her collaborations with Evan Dorkin. Mindy Newell did some fine writing, at DC, June Brigman helped make Power Pack a cult hit, and Melinda Gebbie is a fine creator in her own right, separate from Alan Moore. Along similar lines, Joyce Babner had her own works, before collaborating with Harvey Pekar on Our Cancer Year. Judith Hunt did brilliant work one her own Evangeline (along with then-husband Chuck Dixon). No mention of Riyoko Ikeda? Do you even like manga? You realize that you are repeatedly contrasting them with men or emphasizing the men that they have collaborated with, right? You can not be serious? Okay, I don't even know how to respond to this, so I will try not to read anything into it and just reply. I like some manga; but, don't profess to be an expert. I know more about the early stuff that was translated here, as it was my era. My enjoyment is in story, not art style. Manga is no one thing. I love Takahashi's work and she has been a major influence on those who followed her. I merely linked her to Tezuka because he was called the "god of manga" and had a massive influence on the generations that followed. The comparison is about their impact, not her work in relation to his. With Sarah Dyer, I merely said I loved her Action Girl and her collaborations with Evan Dorkin. She did a lot of writing with him and they made a great team. It had nothing to do with her work vs his or that he elevated hers. Melinda Gebbie is generally linked with Alan Moore in fandom; I merely wanted to point out her works stands on its own merit, as does Joyce Babner, who is forever linked to husband Harvey Pekar (and I read Babner's work long before Our Cancer Year, including her stories in Eclipse's Real War Stories) Evangeline was a collaboration between Judith Hunt and Chuck Dixon; people know him due to longevity in the business. Hunt's main work was in the mid-80s and she left the field behind to pursue her art in other media. The people that do know her, know her in conjunction with Dixon. Again, I wanted to point out that her work, in and of itself, was brilliant. I've been reading comics for most of 50 years. I love the media and I love creators who do great work, whatever the classification used by others to distinguish them beyond their talent and body of work. I've supported that work with my buying dollar and passionately championed it to multiple audiences, including professionally, during 20 years as a bookseller. I am very serious when I say someone has done fantastic work, even if I didn't express it in a way that met with your approval. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 6, 2017 22:35:40 GMT -5
PS. I didn't mention Ikeda, as I am not familiar with her work, beyond the discussion in Fred Schott's Manga" Manga! The World of Japanese Comics, which I read back in 1986, while in college. I am aware of Rose of Versailles; but have never read it (since it hasn't been translated) and therefore never brought it up. I have read Takahashi, and the Guisanni Sisters; hence, their inclusion.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 7, 2017 16:54:57 GMT -5
Claire Bretécher was one of the Big Names of Pilote in the 1970s. She was also one of the co-founders of L'Écho des savanes, a periodical devoted to adult humour comics. She was the first lady cartoonist I was aware of. I really enjoyed her zany take on the traditional "princess waiting for her prince" scenario in Cellulite. (Among the several comic-book phrases that my family uses, there's one from Cellulite... so she's almost part of the family!) There weren't that many cartoonists in the French-speaking world back then... many of them sort of became legends. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 8, 2017 7:27:15 GMT -5
If the point is to bring exposure to them to people who may not be familiar with their work then it's a good tactic. Discussing "women who rocked comics", manga, historical comics or even the current popularity of trade paperback comic collections without referencing Riyoko Ikeda contributes to the erasure of her work. The authoritive tone of the post I quoted was a little hard to take seriously after that. If someone likes manga, it is doubtful that they haven't at least heard of her at some point. Mentioning Alan Moore and Chuck Dixon (see post-Judith Hunt Evangeline), while talking about "women who rocked comics" is not very thoughtful either, considering the content of some of their work and also the treatment of women who have criticized it by those writer's "fans". Alan Moore devotees immediately come to mind. I do not see that as "good", but I suppose I will hear plenty about how it is in due time. I'm a pretty big fan of Manga and I had never seen or heard the name Riyoko Ikeda before.. now that I've googled her I still haven't heard of or seen anything she wrote. Scanning around quickly, it looks like very little of her work has been translated to English, so It's not that crazy that one wouldn't have heard of her, especially if one isn't into Shojo. |
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