|
|
Post by Farrar on Aug 20, 2016 13:39:49 GMT -5
I was at a conference about the Japanese American Internment during WWII a few years back. One of the activities was for each participant to generate an impromptu presentation on different aspects of that era. I (of course) went the superhero route, first showing this:  ... Shax (and anyone else), you might be interested in the 2013 book Anti-Foreign Imagery in American Pulps and Comic Books. I bought it many months ago because of our own hondobrode 's mention of it in the Bargain Hunters Paradise thread. I bought it through budplant's site (http://www.budsartbooks.com/), but I don't see the book listed there any longer. Amazon of course carries it. The book provides a good basic overview of the subject.  The cover is from this comic "for the American boy."  |
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Aug 20, 2016 20:19:32 GMT -5
I was at a conference about the Japanese American Internment during WWII a few years back. One of the activities was for each participant to generate an impromptu presentation on different aspects of that era. I (of course) went the superhero route, first showing this: ... Shax (and anyone else), you might be interested in the 2013 book Anti-Foreign Imagery in American Pulps and Comic Books. I bought it many months ago because of our own hondobrode 's mention of it in the Bargain Hunters Paradise thread. I bought it through budplant's site (http://www.budsartbooks.com/), but I don't see the book listed there any longer. Amazon of course carries it. The book provides a good basic overview of the subject. The cover is from this comic "for the American boy." Thanks for the shout out Farrar and mentioning the bargain hunter's thread as well. Not only do I try to help save our friends some money, but sometimes I can point them towards stuff their LCS doesn't carry or they didn't know existed. As for some of the stereotyping in these Golden Age comics, of course it's not politically correct, but I want to see the original content and judge it for myself. I understanding the rationale behind "cleaning it up" but want to see history as it was, not how it should have been. Publishing does not necessarily condone the content. By stating that in the introduction or foreward, that's where the line should be drawn IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 20, 2016 23:04:20 GMT -5
As Md62 says, if you're going to read or watch anything from this time-period, you're going to have to deal with it because it was simply a fact of life. It doesn't make it right, it makes it historical fact. And it isn't just comics and it isn't just the Golden Age. There cuts across entertainment media and even into advertising and other areas of life. And it continues, though usually not as blatantly well into the 70s and occasionally beyond. And we can add incredible misogyny that in a lot of ways continues to today. I view it as an opportunity to view a different time. And I really don't want it white-washed because it hopefully will show people who long for "the good old days" that they were really only good if you were a white, straight male. If only we could make America great again... |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 20, 2016 23:08:09 GMT -5
An older woman at the conference immediately spoke up and took issue with me, claiming I'd taken all of this out of context and was missing the terrifying times they were living in. I still mull that one over in my mind -- was she right or not? I guess they didn't have the sense of cultural sensitivity we have now, they were at war, and Japan was an enemy. But then, I think about the Internment itself, how (a few "Kraut" comments aside), Germans didn't get that same depiction in popular media, and no one was rounding them up. So I wrestle with how much of an issue to take with these depictions. Yes, that's just the way it was back then, but that's also how the Internment happened. (note: I'm not saying anyone here is arguing "that's just the way it was back then". I'm more arguing with an opponent who isn't here) Nuanced views of history, politics, race relations, and sociology are not cultural strong points here in the United States. But then it's a very human failing. . |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Aug 21, 2016 7:29:05 GMT -5
If I've learned anything in the course of my research, it's that the vast majority of Golden Age content is utter crap. Cei-U! Not that there's anything wrong with that!  |
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Aug 21, 2016 12:13:46 GMT -5
If I've learned anything in the course of my research, it's that the vast majority of Golden Age content is utter crap. Cei-U! Not that there's anything wrong with that! I'm not disagreeing, but that is probably true of most mass market entertainment--movies, music, fiction, etc. Of course, just because it's crap, doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. |
|
|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 21, 2016 12:51:45 GMT -5
If I've learned anything in the course of my research, it's that the vast majority of Golden Age content is utter crap. Cei-U! Not that there's anything wrong with that! I'm not disagreeing, but that is probably true of most mass market entertainment--movies, music, fiction, etc. Of course, just because it's crap, doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. That's the motto of the Dung Beetle |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 21, 2016 16:37:18 GMT -5
If I've learned anything in the course of my research, it's that the vast majority of Golden Age content is utter crap. Cei-U! Not that there's anything wrong with that! "Four–fifths of everybody's work must be bad. But the remnant is worth the trouble for its own sake." -- Rudyard Kipling
"The claim (or fact) that 90% of science fiction is crap is ultimately uninformative, because science fiction conforms to the same trends of quality as all other artforms." -- Theodore Sturgeon "90% of everything is crap. That is true, whether you are talking about physics, chemistry, evolutionary psychology, sociology, medicine—you name it — rock music, country western. 90% of everything is crap." -- Daniel Dennett, endorsing Sturgeon's Revelation |
|
|
|
Post by String on Aug 22, 2016 8:10:44 GMT -5
If you're a Shazam fan, one of the holy grails is the original Monster Society of Evil serial that ran from Captain Marvel Adventures #22-46. It's one of the earliest, if not the earliest, attempt at a multi-part ongoing story arc in comics history.
Since acquiring the character(s), DC has only reprinted this saga once. 3-4 years ago, DC did solicit another reprinting, Previews had covered it, and Amazon even had a listing for it. Sadly, it didn't last long before DC decided to pull it. One of the reasons why they are reluctant to reprint it is the racial stereotypes/slurs within the story (I think one instance is a black servant/butler/friend that Billy has at that time). They are fearfully of the the perceptions of such material in today's society.
As Hondo said, I think it's a shame when publishers give into that mentality. While such stereotypes are frowned upon today outright, these portrayals are part of the history and culture of comics at that time and should be seen and presented by the reprinting publisher(s) in such a manner. They should also give more credit to their readers for knowing this difference and accept that we just want to read, enjoy and appreciate the material in question.
As for that one lone reprint edition of Monster Society, I have yet to see any copy sell for less than $250.
*sigh*
|
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 22, 2016 8:38:18 GMT -5
I think a lot of this stuff is a complex mixture of isolation from the subjects (minorities, foreigners) and trying to make a pejorative (a history of institutionalized racism) into a half-assed virtue by making it all a big joke. Notice how black people were almost always comic characters. If they were depicted in a more realistic, dramatic light, it wouldn't have been as easy to accept them as being "inferior" and worthy of ridicule. By the Golden Age slavery had been illegal for some 60+ years, and the white majority couldn't really tackle that objectively and head on without making themselves look like the villains. I think there was a lot of real guilt in that stuff made manifest in snide, racist, insensitive nonsense.
At the root of it all seems to be our evolutionary tendencies to side with our own "tribe," only pumped up and made worse by lunk-headed nationalism. What a mess. I think as the world became more interconnected, and people could see that the Japanese, for instance, weren't monsters, people were allowed to develop empathy for other ethnic groups.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 22, 2016 10:33:14 GMT -5
If you're a Shazam fan, one of the holy grails is the original Monster Society of Evil serial that ran from Captain Marvel Adventures #22-46. It's one of the earliest, if not the earliest, attempt at a multi-part ongoing story arc in comics history. Since acquiring the character(s), DC has only reprinted this saga once. 3-4 years ago, DC did solicit another reprinting, Previews had covered it, and Amazon even had a listing for it. Sadly, it didn't last long before DC decided to pull it. One of the reasons why they are reluctant to reprint it is the racial stereotypes/slurs within the story (I think one instance is a black servant/butler/friend that Billy has at that time). They are fearfully of the the perceptions of such material in today's society. As Hondo said, I think it's a shame when publishers give into that mentality. While such stereotypes are frowned upon today outright, these portrayals are part of the history and culture of comics at that time and should be seen and presented by the reprinting publisher(s) in such a manner. They should also give more credit to their readers for knowing this difference and accept that we just want to read, enjoy and appreciate the material in question. As for that one lone reprint edition of Monster Society, I have yet to see any copy sell for less than $250. *sigh* Have a day! comicbookplus.com/?dlid=17972 |
|
|
|
Post by MWGallaher on Aug 22, 2016 12:21:40 GMT -5
As far as the Crimson Avenger I preferred his earlier portrayal as a Green Hornet pulp style hero instead of the costumed hero...
To be completely blunt, the Crimson Avenger was pretty much a direct rip-off of the Green Hornet, which is why there was a "Wing" in the first place--Asian houseboy to the gas gun-wielding Crimson Avenger, like the Hornet's chauffeur Kato. (Although far from a household name any more, the Green Hornet was an extremely popular character in the Golden Age of American radio, and there were a lot of comic book characters that borrowed from the concept--The Sandman also used a gas gun to put his enemies to sleep--or the character's name: The Blue Beetle, The Red Bee, The Golden Wasp, The Yellow...umm...Jacket...) And throughout the first half of the 20th century, fading a lot but still present in the 70's, "dialect humor" was popular and not very controversial to the mainstream audience. (One of my favorite authors, the inimitable Harry Stephen Keeler, would write long, long chapters narrated in almost unreadable and quite inauthentic dialects--Chinese, German, Swedish, Mexican, Black, and more.) And since this was intended and perceived as humor, the characters speaking like this, whether in text, comics, radio, film, or television, were almost always being made fun of. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 21:32:34 GMT -5
As far as the Crimson Avenger I preferred his earlier portrayal as a Green Hornet pulp style hero instead of the costumed hero...
To be completely blunt, the Crimson Avenger was pretty much a direct rip-off of the Green Hornet, which is why there was a "Wing" in the first place--Asian houseboy to the gas gun-wielding Crimson Avenger, like the Hornet's chauffeur Kato. (Although far from a household name any more, the Green Hornet was an extremely popular character in the Golden Age of American radio, and there were a lot of comic book characters that borrowed from the concept--The Sandman also used a gas gun to put his enemies to sleep--or the character's name: The Blue Beetle, The Red Bee, The Golden Wasp, The Yellow...umm...Jacket...) And throughout the first half of the 20th century, fading a lot but still present in the 70's, "dialect humor" was popular and not very controversial to the mainstream audience. (One of my favorite authors, the inimitable Harry Stephen Keeler, would write long, long chapters narrated in almost unreadable and quite inauthentic dialects--Chinese, German, Swedish, Mexican, Black, and more.) And since this was intended and perceived as humor, the characters speaking like this, whether in text, comics, radio, film, or television, were almost always being made fun of. Most of the more successful heroes in the Golden Age were copied from Superman to the Green Hornet, etc... |
|
|
|
Post by mikelmidnight on Aug 27, 2016 8:14:22 GMT -5
I love the Golden Age characters but admit that, yes, most of the stories have aged badly, with a few standouts (I'd add Cole's Plastic Man to the list).
In defense of Eisner's treatment of Ebony, he was genuinely troubled when it was pointed out to him as a racist caricature and he pulled the character from the strip.
|
|
