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Post by hondobrode on Nov 6, 2016 12:48:38 GMT -5
Someday I'm going to complete that Starman run from the 90's.
Never read the Roger Stern version from the 80's. Is it worth getting ? Big Stern fan and all, but I remember thinking it just looked ok.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2016 15:54:28 GMT -5
Someday I'm going to complete that Starman run from the 90's. Never read the Roger Stern version from the 80's. Is it worth getting ? Big Stern fan and all, but I remember thinking it just looked ok. I like Stern and Tom Lyle had some nice art. It's a decent little superhero series. It has moments; but, it never rises to greatness, like the Robinson series. It's good, solid, superhero adventure. The characters are likeable; but hardly memorable. Robinson gets better mileage out of it, during the To The Stars storyline, where Jack and Mikaal go in search of Will Payton. It also wraps up connections to the Ditko Prince Gavyyn (who was far better in the hands of Jim Starlin, in DC Comics Presents, than any of the Ditko and Co. stories). I kind of rank it with Ostrander's Manhunter series (and there is a podcast, from Aaron Moss, about both) in that the stories are decent but hardly anyone's best work or an epic series. Kind of B-superhero material, really. I always enjoyed the issues; but, it wasn't the first thing I read when I picked up my new comics. It was the kind of series where I'd say I liked the idea, and the stories are nicely done; but, I keep hoping for more. So, yeah, "okay" pretty well covers it. The costume looked like something an Olympic Downhill skier would wear, though. The black suit wasn't much better. I met Tom Lyle, in Augusta, GA, when he was working on this. His earlier work (which wasn't much) had similar costuming ideas. I gave him points for trying different things. Lyle went on to bigger things, with Spider-Man, then left comics, mostly, behind. Last I heard of him was that he was teaching, at the Savannah College o Art and Design (which has an excellent program for budding comic artists). several of the characters Lyle worked on had that skier look:
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2016 17:20:21 GMT -5
Issue 13, Return of the New Gods! FINAL ISSUE!!!!!!!!!! Well, we sadly come to an end; but, it's an epic ending, with another preview of a new ongoing series. Our cover is from Dick Giordano and it's a doozy! Nice dynamic shot of our heroes flying out. You will notice a couple of things. One, Orion is now wearing more of a superhero costume, with a yellow mask and "O" symbol on his chest. Gone is Kirby's more militaristic helmet and Orion's space harness. He uses the Astro Force from his own body, rather than via the harness. Next, note the presence of Mister Miracle and Barda with the New Gods, showing us that the whole 4th World is back, except for the Forever People. Third, not Barda is ot in her warrior's armor; but, in her red bikini carnival outfit. This suggests we are looking at a more superhero take on the Kirby epic. Our story opens with Orion crashing through a barrier, attacking Darkseid's minions inside. it is there he learns that Kalibak still lives and the pair of half-brothers go at it like many brothers. The staging of the whole thing really makes me miss Kirby. Mike Vosburg is not up to the task of following Kirby and it is on full display here. Ou scene shifts to New Genesis (prior to our opening action), where Scott Free and Barda are staying, after their wedding. They are hanging out with Highfather and a very chummy Metron. Scott has grown out his sideburns, too, while Barda looks a bit less Amazonian. Orion returns and tells Highfather that his scouting mission reveals that Apokalips is readying for further war. The battleground will be Earth, though we soon see that the war will hit home, too, as parademons attack New Genesis. The gang fight them off, until Metron opens a Boom Tube and they chuck the parademons down it. Orion heads off to Earth, to confront Darkseid's forces. Back to more fisticuffs, then Orion knocks Kalibak through the floor. he searches on and runs into Granny Goodness and they trade taunts, before Orion turns his back on her and gets blasted in the head for it. So much for the greatest warrior of two worlds! he's drug off, while we switch back to New Genesis, where Metron tells Highfather that the Source Wall has become active again and sent a message. We also find out about Darkseid's plans: Orion wakes up on Apokalips and breaks free, punching out Kalibak again, in the absence of anything better in the plot. they fight until they run into Darkseid. he taunts both sons, slaps away Kalibak, then taunts Orion some more, getting his blood up. We see Orion's face sort of change, beneath his mask; but, Vosburg doesn't quite capture the moment. He is in a killing rage, when Highfather and Metron show up and talk Orion out of trying to kill Darkseid. Darkseid shows them the Boom Tube and they head back home. Darkseid paces as he sees that things have ended in a stalemate, again. We end with a one page summary of the previous series, minus any talk of the Forever People and Jimmy Olsen. We are told to keep an eye out for Mister miracle, with Marty Pasko, Ric estrada and Joe Staton. Well, that would turn out to be Steve Engelhart and Marshall Rogers (and Michael Golden), in a suitably more epic take on the material, which outshone the New Gods themselves. Conway throws a lot at the wall and some of it sticks and he is mostly following Kirby. Denny O'Neil is doing dialogue and he doesn't capture Kirby's voice. Vosburg can't even touch Jack's cigar ash, let alone his artistic talent. The pacing is rather frantic and you are kind of bounced around again, as Conway reintroduces things. All-in-all, it isn't bad; but, it is hardly great. Conway was a fine writer but he was never as epic as Roy Thomas or Jack Kirby. He just doesn't have that same level of vision; at least, not in this. He starts the new series out a bit better, more suitably aided by a more polished Don Newton. We are also told that 1st Issue Special has come to an end; but, we will see many characters in new series and in back=ups in the new 50-cent Giant issues. Liars! Warlord got his own series, had it briefly cancelled, then continued on as one of DC's bestselling titles of the 70s. Atlas wouldn't be seen for nearly 30 years. The Green Team got a cameo and unreleased stories, which were possibly prepared for the Explosion; but, fell to the Implosion. Nobody wanted to touch the Dingbats, until Karl Kesel. Metamorpho bounced around until the Outsiders and JLE. The Outsiders here were never seen again. Manhunter was finished off in JLA, then returned 10 years later, in Millennium. Mark Shaw, made sporadic appearances after. Lady Cop got some love from Gail Simone and Dr Fate got his back-up stories in The Flash, before a new series, in the 80s and 90s, and a return to the JSA. Creeper bounced around a bit (fittingly), Assassin wasn't seen for nearly 30 years, and James Robinson was the first to bring back Starman, in the new 90s series. Of this grand experiment, I would dub Warlord a smash success, though he was more previewed than launched here. Starman proved to have the most vitality of those created here, with mark Shaw a close; but uneven second. The New Gods would return again and again; but that is due what Kirby did, not Conway. Conway's material was mostly ignored, and even Engelhart's more interesting Mister Miracle was pretty well forgotten, even before Crisis. However, I'd like to look at that revival. I'm going to continue this by exploring the 4th World revival, from here to JLA. We all have seen what happened beyond, with inclusion of the 4th World characters in Super Powers (cartoon and toys), the Great Darkness Saga, Crisis, the post-Crisis Superman, Cosmic Odyssey, and the revived New Gods and Mister Miracle, in the late 80s. Few, however, saw this 70s spark of life, so we will see if it is a lost treasure or a justly forgotten chapter.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 6, 2016 18:16:53 GMT -5
I have an issue of Return of the New Gods, a series that I suppose followed this book. The art by Don Newton was fine, but... The New Gods without Kirby just doesn't work for me.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2016 19:25:17 GMT -5
I have an issue of Return of the New Gods, a series that I suppose followed this book. The art by Don Newton was fine, but... The New Gods without Kirby just doesn't work for me. I wholly understand that and agree, for the most part. My intro to the 4th World was New Gods #12 and Mister Miracle #21; so, I didn't know any better. NG 12 had me intrigued, especially the sequence (where Newton gets to strut his stuff) where Forager infiltrates the DNA Project, as it was being called, before it was the Cadmus Project. That had some great artwork and that hooked me. I didn't see another issue until the Adventure Comics wrap-up, and the JLA coda. Mister miracle had me from the moment I first saw a house ad and then saw Marshall Rogers' work. I didn't actually read the rest until college. I'll get to my thoughts there. Suffice to say, Gerry Conway isn't Kirby; but, then, who is? That said, there were elements that grabbed me and I hope I can highlight some of that. Truth be told, I will enjoy re-reading Mister Miracle far more; but then, I prefer it over New Gods, even in Kirby's hand. I always felt Kirby had something in Mister Miracle, something he articulated better than he did in New Gods. It took a while before I really felt he was there, in New Gods, with The Pact and the subsequent issues. Mister Miracle had it at the start and just kept going. Maybe after I go through Conway and Engelhart, I'll take a peek at Kirby. Give me an excuse to pull out my 4th World Omnibi!
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Post by mikelmidnight on Nov 16, 2016 18:14:49 GMT -5
I was totally suckered in by the 'First Issue' theme as a kid, so I think in terms of marketing it was an overall success!
Green Team: You know, I never understood how Abdul made his million dollars until I read your review. It irked me as a kid and irks me now. As you say, he was obviously intended to be the entry character for the reader, but it came off as condescending. But this is a team that I feel one could revive as a satire and have it be brilliant.
Lady Cop: That killer has still never been caught, has he?
Outsiders: I agree that Simon's presentation was bland, but this was another team that cries out for a Vertigo revival. Or, at the very least, a pitched battle against Batman's Outsiders!
Codename: Assassin was a character I only disliked, however. I think the name had a lot to do with it; as you suggest, being an 'assassin' isn't heroic, and what would people call him, anyway? Codey? I thought the story was bland and the villains uninteresting, although I was satisfied that Robinson (who seems to have a peculiar obsession with the series) at least showed what happened to him.
I thought this version of the New Gods was tolerable, no scratch on Kirby but better than the other non-Kirby New Gods who had appeared up to then, but I hated the mainstream superhero look for Orion.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 16, 2016 21:13:39 GMT -5
I was totally suckered in by the 'First Issue' theme as a kid, so I think in terms of marketing it was an overall success! Green Team: You know, I never understood how Abdul made his million dollars until I read your review. It irked me as a kid and irks me now. As you say, he was obviously intended to be the entry character for the reader, but it came off as condescending. But this is a team that I feel one could revive as a satire and have it be brilliant. Lady Cop: That killer has still never been caught, has he? Outsiders: I agree that Simon's presentation was bland, but this was another team that cries out for a Vertigo revival. Or, at the very least, a pitched battle against Batman's Outsiders! Codename: Assassin was a character I only disliked, however. I think the name had a lot to do with it; as you suggest, being an 'assassin' isn't heroic, and what would people call him, anyway? Codey? I thought the story was bland and the villains uninteresting, although I was satisfied that Robinson (who seems to have a peculiar obsession with the series) at least showed what happened to him. I thought this version of the New Gods was tolerable, no scratch on Kirby but better than the other non-Kirby New Gods who had appeared up to then, but I hated the mainstream superhero look for Orion. Well, see, the thing with Assassin is that they were going for that whole Mack Bolan vigilante anti-hero; but, they executed it too much in a superhero manner. Had they done it more like The Destroyer, it probably would have worked better. One of the things about certain comics (and tv shows and movies) is that I am often drawn to things that had potential; but didn't have the right execution. Maybe it's because it inspires my imagination for how it could have been done better. Code Name: Assassin has that. I see a lot of potential for cool stuff that isn't there on the page. It's probably why I was always a big fan of Black Goliath, even though the stories are nothing to write home about. I liked the look and saw something there, waiting to get out. It never did, even when he was used better in the PEGASUS Project storyline, in Marvel Two-In-One. I didn't mind the superhero look for Orion then, as the revived series was my introduction. In fact, when Orion turns up in the Great Darkness Saga (sort of) I wondered why he didn't look right. It wasn't until a year or so later, at college, when I found the New Gods Baxter-format reprint that I actually got to read Kirby's stories and saw that GDS had the costume right. I'm not quite to the end of the run; but, I don't think they show Orion's true face, in the revived series, until the JLA issues, which was a key element of Kirby's run. You get a hint in one panel, in !st Issue Special, when Orion suddenly has heavy eyebrows poking through the mask holes. In retrospect, it seems an odd choice and feels like it was an attempt to appeal to a broader audience. I don't think it helped much.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 19, 2016 22:19:28 GMT -5
Lady Cop: That killer has still never been caught, has he? Was he a one-armed man? If so, he finally was.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 19, 2016 23:01:28 GMT -5
Lady Cop: That killer has still never been caught, has he? Was he a one-armed man? If so, he finally was. Nope; he was the man with the white boots, who took Nancy Sinatra waaaaaaayyyyy to seriously: By the by, 60's fashions were awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 15:48:29 GMT -5
I have an issue of Return of the New Gods, a series that I suppose followed this book. The art by Don Newton was fine, but... The New Gods without Kirby just doesn't work for me. Same here Raider ... and the feeling is mutual.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on Nov 20, 2016 21:45:53 GMT -5
Green Team: You know, I never understood how Abdul made his million dollars until I read your review. It irked me as a kid and irks me now. As you say, he was obviously intended to be the entry character for the reader, but it came off as condescending. But this is a team that I feel one could revive as a satire and have it be brilliant. This was revived as part of the New 52, but how brilliant it was, I don't know.
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 22, 2016 5:30:42 GMT -5
Regarding the Outsiders, Doc Scary's team did indeed eventually resurface, in a brief cameo in Superman #692 in 2009. Codename: Assassin appears in the same issue.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Nov 22, 2016 12:32:55 GMT -5
Codey had a major role in Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen Special #1 (December 2008), naturally written by James Robinson.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 14:24:53 GMT -5
And DC recently came out with a hardcover collection of all 13 issues which I picked up. There were some wacky concepts and some really good stories. Both versions of me (the teenager and the near 60 yr old) loved it now and back then in the mid 70s.
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