Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 15, 2018 11:38:48 GMT -5
I finally got my DVD of Blade Runner 2049 last week and re-watched it last night. I think I enjoyed it even more the second time round. What a beautiful, moving film it is. Such a great piece of art. I'm not surprised. It's so bloody good I had to see it again straightaway in the cinema, taking my youngest son with me. The reflection on the nature of "being real" and "being artificial" in that film is so awesome that it haunted me for weeks. All things considered, aren't we all artificial in the sense that our personality and the way we behave toward each other is imprinted by what our upbringing, our biochemistry and our physiology make of us? Is Joi's love any less real than a human's would be just because it can be reproduced in countless other copies?
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 15, 2018 12:42:47 GMT -5
I finally got my DVD of Blade Runner 2049 last week and re-watched it last night. I think I enjoyed it even more the second time round. What a beautiful, moving film it is. Such a great piece of art. I'm not surprised. It's so bloody good I had to see it again straightaway in the cinema, taking my youngest son with me. The reflection on the nature of "being real" and "being artificial" in that film is so awesome that it haunted me for weeks. All things considered, aren't we all artificial in the sense that our personality and the way we behave toward each other is imprinted by what our upbringing, our biochemistry and our physiology make of us? Is Joi's love any less real than a human's would be just because it can be reproduced in countless other copies? Oh, I absolutely agree. The thing with my second viewing, as opposed to the first, was that the emotional impact of the film really hit me. I'm not someone who is moved to tears very often, but the original Blade Runner can always make me cry...especially at Rutgur Hauer's "tears in the rain" speech. Watching Blade Runner 2049 the second time, there were definitely a few moments where I started to get a little moisten-eyed, hence my comment about it being a moving film. As you say, the film focuses on the nature of what is "real" verses what is "artificial", but it couches that philosophical question within the tragedy of mortality. That's an emotionally charged mix, to say the least. Like its predecessor, Blade Runner 2049 is a brilliant piece of cinema and a far better sequel than we, as fans, had any right to expect.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 5, 2018 13:40:03 GMT -5
Just watched this. It was better than I hoped (especially after the KW Jeeter sequel and the mess that was Prometheus, in relation to Alien). However, I didn't think it was the masterpiece that others have indicated. It looks great, though it could have used a Syd Mead on the design, if you ask me. Also, did not care for the music. Definitely missed Vangellis. Kind of felt the original had more personality to it. Then again, I tend to find that films made before the New Millennium tend to have more personality than much of what came after. Part of it is the nature of filmmaking these days. I didn't feel like it was as visually inventive as the original; just slicker. Performances were fine. Some interesting parts, bit dull in several spots. I didn't feel as much PKD in this one, as in the original, even in spirit, other than identity of the child. PKD was very much about identity, in that stage of his writing.
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Post by rom on Apr 8, 2018 10:25:12 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of the original '82 Blade Runner. I missed it in the theater when it was first released, but have seen it multiple times since the early '90's. I also saw the 2007 cut theatrically, and it was one of my greatest theatrical movie experiences. Though I preferred the '82 cut, with the HF voice-over - that gave the film an intentional noir-ish feel/vibe, and brought to mind those old b&w detective films from the 1940's/1950's. So, I wasn't sure what I would think of BR 2049, but decided to give it a chance. I just recently saw this on Blu-ray...and felt it was an incredible sci-fi film. It both paid homage to the original & at the same time has a completely unique story. I liked how it was a sequel to the original, but at the same time wasn't a re-make. Visually, this film was also amazing & sublime...and, like the original, does an incredible job in fully creating an obviously futuristic & grim world - with some familiarity to our current one. Going along with this, the theme of what it means to be human was the underlying element in both BR films. I.e., can humans create something that has just as much - or more - human emotion/humanity/empathy than humans themselves?! This has been examined in other sci-fi films/TV series over the years (2001 ASO, the Terminator movies, AI: Artificial Intelligence, The re-imagined Battlestar Galactica TV series, etc.) but is explored very effectively in these BR movies. The idea that replicants can breed & have children - just like humans - was an interesting idea as well. And, that being the case what truly separates the robots from the humans?! Nothing (or almost nothing) as far as I can tell. Also, I thought it was clever to try to sync up (as much as possible) the original to the 2049 sequel in "real time". I.e., the original BR took place in 2019, and 2049 is 30 years later. In "real time", the original came out in '82, and 2049 was released in 2017 - so, 35 years later - which isn't that far off. Making the Ryan Gosling character in 2049 {Spoiler: Click to show} a replicant himself - who is hunting down & destroying other replicants - is quite compelling. It was interesting that, based on 2049, it wasn't clear {Spoiler: Click to show} if Deckard (Harrison Ford) or Gaff (Edward James Olmos) were replicants. Yes, they had both appropriately aged since the original BR; Deckard was living in self-imposed exile in Las Vegas, and Gaff was in a nursing home. Though replicants didn't appear to age too much in the '82 film (due to their "expiration date")....in 2049, the Dave Bautista replicant at the beginning (the one living on the farm) had aged.
In the original '82 BR film it was slightly implied that both Deckard & Gaff were replicants, given that their eyes shone a certain way in some scenes - like the eyes of the replicants. I especially thought Deckard was a replicant after the scene when Rachel (Sean Young) asked him if he had ever taken the Voight-Kampt?! test himself, and he didn't answer.
That being said, the poignancy of Deckard & Rachel's relationship (as seen in the '82 film) loses some of it's relevance if both are replicants - at least to me. I.e., to me it's more interesting if Deckard is human & knows she's a replicant - and still falls in love with her. So, I prefer to believe that he's not a replicant - unless/until proven otherwise.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 18, 2018 16:27:06 GMT -5
It was interesting that, based on 2049, it wasn't clear {Spoiler: Click to show} That being said, the poignancy of Deckard & Rachel's relationship (as seen in the '82 film) loses some of it's relevance if both are replicants - at least to me. I.e., to me it's more interesting if Deckard is human & knows she's a replicant - and still falls in love with her. So, I prefer to believe that he's not a replicant - unless/until proven otherwise.
Same here. {Spoiler: Click to show} I know that Scott himself retconned Deckard as perhaps being a Replicant, but Ford played him as if he wer not, and was himself convinced (in the original) that he was human. Personally, I fail to see how the story is improved one bit by having Deckard be a replicant, and it both hurts the pathos of his relationship with Rachel and introduces several incongruancies in the story. (To wit, if he’s a replicant, why is he the only one to be so easily damaged? Why was he allowed to retire from the LAPD? Why does the Tyrell coproration risk losing him, considering he’d be a very valuable Nexus 7 model? Not too difficult to explain away, but it makes the plot way too complicated for no dramatic advantage).
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 18, 2018 17:49:11 GMT -5
It was interesting that, based on 2049, it wasn't clear {Spoiler: Click to show} That being said, the poignancy of Deckard & Rachel's relationship (as seen in the '82 film) loses some of it's relevance if both are replicants - at least to me. I.e., to me it's more interesting if Deckard is human & knows she's a replicant - and still falls in love with her. So, I prefer to believe that he's not a replicant - unless/until proven otherwise.
Same here. {Spoiler: Click to show} I know that Scott himself retconned Deckard as perhaps being a Replicant, but Ford played him as if he wer not, and was himself convinced (in the original) that he was human. Personally, I fail to see how the story is improved one bit by having Deckard be a replicant, and it both hurts the pathos of his relationship with Rachel and introduces several incongruancies in the story. (To wit, if he’s a replicant, why is he the only one to be so easily damaged? Why was he allowed to retire from the LAPD? Why does the Tyrell coproration risk losing him, considering he’d be a very valuable Nexus 7 model? Not too difficult to explain away, but it makes the plot way too complicated for no dramatic advantage). The whole question of Deckard being a replicant or not really distracts from the main theme, if you ask me. The point of the story is that Deckard finds his lost humanity via his relationship with Rachel and Roy Batty, who were manufactured, regardless of Deckard's own origin. That is still the central theme in PKD's novel, even as it plays out differently. In the novel, there is a component where Deckard is picked up by a different police precinct and is believed to be an android, and is subjected to their version of the V-K. It was the basis for the movie's question. In my original viewings of the theatrical version of the film (US), I never questioned that he is human. I noticed the light effect; but, never credited it as deliberate and assumed it was due to the set lighting. It was only after reading a segment of a book about movies of that era, which featured some stills of deleted footage (including the interview with Holden, in his life support chamber) that I read of the suggestion and the glowing eyes. It didn't have significance until the Director's Cut, when Scott put the Unicorn Dream back in and I was deliberately looking for the glowing eye effect, that it took on any significance. I still rejected the idea, as it undercut the central idea. Listening to the commentary, I don't buy into Scott's thinking and, quite frankly, he comes across as an ass in some of his statements. I've listened to commentary there, on Alien, and The Duelists and he's got a pretty big ego, though he is far less insufferable on those other two commentaries. I got the impression that he didn't like his idea being challenged, regardless of how he presented it (in the more ambiguous original or the more deliberate subsequent cuts). In interviews, Scott kind of comes across like a replicant; rather cold and emotionless. Maybe he needs a visit from his own Roy Batty. I will admit that my take on the story is rather informed by reading the novel and the Marvel adaptation, before seeing the film. As such, the idea that Deckard is anything but a human never entered my mind. It is similar to theories about The Prisoner, and the suggestion that Number 6 is actually the man in charge, testing his system ("Who is Number One?" " You are Number 6!") The idea of Number 6 being the puppet master makes for a nice exercise; but, undercuts the entire series and themes; thus, making it totally unlikely. The concept only works if he is an outsider caught up in the struggle, just as Blade Runner only really works if Deckard is a human who discovers his humanity, thanks to the lessons learned from the artificial replicants, seeking prolonged life. If society fears undetected and rogue replicants, why would they use other replicants to take them down? They would seem to be even more feared and suspect; thus, less trustworthy. It just circles back upon itself. I liked the concepts at the heart of this one; but, wasn't as impressed by the execution.
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Post by rom on May 10, 2018 20:34:25 GMT -5
Good points re: the original BR. I never thought Deckard was anything but human either, until I started reading theories that he was a replicant online. Thanks for the mention of the Marvel BR comic book adaptation from '82. As a pre-teen when this film came out theatrically, I wasn't allowed to see this in theaters due to the R rating. So, this comic was my first exposure to the film. It's an amazing adaptation with superb art by Al Williamson, who is one of my top five favorite comic book artists. Unfortunately, I have no idea where my BR comics are now (I can't remember if I had the larger Marvel Super Special or the individual 2-issue release). I wish that Marvel would reprint this BR adaptation, but I'm sure one of the reasons they haven't is probably because of copyright/licensing issues. In any case, here's a blast from the past: dangerousminds.net/comments/blade_runner_the_marvel_comics_adaptation
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 13, 2018 17:16:42 GMT -5
Holy smoke! A Michael Golden cover too???
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 14, 2018 15:54:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the mention of the Marvel BR comic book adaptation from '82. As a pre-teen when this film came out theatrically, I wasn't allowed to see this in theaters due to the R rating. So, this comic was my first exposure to the film. Yeah, this is exactly my experience too. I was only 11-years-old when Blade Runner came out in the UK and it was a AA certificate (equivalent to the modern 15 very), so there was no way I was getting in to see it. The Marvel adaptation of the film was serialised as a back-up strip in Return of the Jedi Weekly in 1983, which is where I first encountered it. A year or so later, I picked up the whole adaptation in a hardcover British annual. Over the next three years, that comic adaptation was Blade Runner to me. It was the only way I could experience the film. I didn't actually see the movie until it was released on rental VHS around 1986 or so.
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