|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 24, 2017 22:12:27 GMT -5
^Oh no, I know that. By original, I mean its original sale state. Like, the format in which it was originally sold to the consumer. I realize that artwork was technically also removed from its original drawing state (and mass produced) but it still tends to come across much stronger to me in person and on paper than it does on a computer screen. Sorry if I made it sound like the comic book itself was the original. While I would be elated to one day own a piece of original work, they tend to costs thousands per page which I just cannot afford. By this logic, you must have trouble watching and listening to TV, movies and music. It's akin to a digital transmission. You don't own it unless you copy it. And your copy is most likely, in a digital format. Grandpappy Kabbible was never able to accept comic books in the format of floppy's. "Ish", he would always say to me," Comics were meant to be sold in scrolls. If you can't unfurl it, it's no good. Why, in my day, you unscrolled the comic and the artist could give you a panel a mile long. You young whippersnappers don't know what you missed. Now, you're great great grandpappy Kibble swore on comics on stone tablets. Too heavy I say. A couple of them on the kitchen table, and you'd have no table. Scroll comics, dagnabbit, thats the way it should be |
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 24, 2017 22:50:25 GMT -5
Fortunately, I am not that way anything else, just comic books.
|
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Jan 25, 2017 4:23:47 GMT -5
I am with tingramretro. I actually refuse to read a story unless it is in my collection in some floppy format. So I have never read an easily obtainable issue (online, digital, reprint format) of ASM #129 because I want to own it in some way before I do. I need the real deal. Maybe when I am older and it becomes financially impossible to get the books I want but I can still find deals and make it work without spending a fortune. I also find that, of the few newer comics I have read online, I hated it because it wasn't in my hands. The art was removed from its original place, on the pages and that did not work for me. Exactly how I feel. I just cannot sit and relax and read for pleasure off a screen. Not a book, or a comic. It just doesn't work for me. And as far as I'm concerned, if you buy digital, you don't end up actually owning anything. |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2017 4:54:14 GMT -5
I am with tingramretro. I actually refuse to read a story unless it is in my collection in some floppy format. So I have never read an easily obtainable issue (online, digital, reprint format) of ASM #129 because I want to own it in some way before I do. I need the real deal. Maybe when I am older and it becomes financially impossible to get the books I want but I can still find deals and make it work without spending a fortune. I also find that, of the few newer comics I have read online, I hated it because it wasn't in my hands. The art was removed from its original place, on the pages and that did not work for me. As I have said before, a floppy is just a copy of the original and in printing the floppy you are already removing the art from it's original place, which is the Bristol Board it was drawn on (unless it is a newer book and the art was done digitally, than the original is the pixels of the jpg or other picture format it was saved in. A floppy is not an original, it is a mass produced copy of the creator's work, just as a trade or a digital file is. Unless you are going to spend the money to buy all the original art pages for Amazing Spider-Man @129 (and one page went recently in the Lonestar monthly auction for upwards of $15K) you are never going to read it in its original format. -M mrp, you sure like to split hairs and make silly statements at times. Of course the original comic sold at the newsstand /comic shop is the original. The Bristol boards are not nor has ever been considered the original comic. When Action #1 goes up for auction, they never say it's a copy of the original artwork. They say it's the actual Action #1. |
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Jan 25, 2017 8:26:27 GMT -5
In this day and age i will take whatever format i can find and afford for my comic book reading. Paper is easier to hold but convenience of carrying around on a Kindle is nice. An e-reader the size of a comic book would of course be perfection but that isn't likely to come until years down the line. So i am forced to adjust my reading habit of comic books based on current trends. I have a few friends who love comic books now based upon the television shows and movies which are now out but they won't buy a monthly or a trade as they never read comics growing up and it isn't something they know or enjoy doing. So to them a comic book "fix" is the DVD/Blu-Ray. Are these not in essence some type of a comic book as well today or even the possible future of comic books?
My preference is of course for the original floppy but that is quite very quickly become a financial choice that is not as viable anymore. Once upon a time you could spend all day in a used bookstore where there were walls of comics in brown paper grocery bags and dig through them for cheap copies. Stores found out there was money to be made and began pricing them higher but still in cost friendly ways. Then the comic book became a thing not for reading but for collecting and hoarding to resell. Books were printed giving prices based upon sales around the country. Whole stores opened just for comic books where you could find multiple copies priced based upon these book pricing's and then lo there was born the internet and suddenly all you find in the comic book store is one single copy highly priced and most of the cheaper priced comics are stored away for future sales or for online sales.
My collecting has always been for reading purposes. Never have i chose to pay more than $5-10 for any single back issue. X-Men #94 going for over $200, well no thanks. Finally have a copy in reprint for $5 then thank you very much or in black and white in an essential collection oh goody! Single issue floppy costs used to be affordable enough to enjoy the thrill of the hunt and search until rewarded with success. The fun was in knowing you could and would eventually successfully find that which you searched for or knowing that certain issues would always be out the price range to afford.
If i can't afford the single issues and there are TPB's then so be it as long as i want it and can afford it. For the longest time i avoided Omni's based upon their cost yet now at times the Omni is more cost effective to own than the single's or the companies don't release a TPB, waiting to sell the Omni. What remains is the desire to "own/read" whatever it is you search for. In the last 2 years i have bought more collected Trades and Omni's due to the cost and/or lack of alternatives. Always wanted to get the Kubert DC Tarzan, very few copies around Phoenix and what there is priced extremely high but hey they did a hardback collections but they quickly sold out and became priced high and seeing this the company chose to print a new complete all in one trade paperback priced appropriately affordable enough and now i have it. Always wanted Buscema Marvel Tarzan's but again few issues around town and priced mid to high and now an Omni being printed priced well enough i am buying it. If the alternative was either of those were only ever going to be had electronically due to pricing then electronic it would be just as long as i could have them to read and enjoy.
Print is best but electronic is better than not ever having them to see and read.
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
|
Post by shaxper on Jan 25, 2017 8:38:08 GMT -5
I am with tingramretro. I actually refuse to read a story unless it is in my collection in some floppy format. So I have never read an easily obtainable issue (online, digital, reprint format) of ASM #129 because I want to own it in some way before I do. I need the real deal. Maybe when I am older and it becomes financially impossible to get the books I want but I can still find deals and make it work without spending a fortune. I also find that, of the few newer comics I have read online, I hated it because it wasn't in my hands. The art was removed from its original place, on the pages and that did not work for me. As I have said before, a floppy is just a copy of the original and in printing the floppy you are already removing the art from it's original place, which is the Bristol Board it was drawn on And yet floppy is the format for which the art and panel arrangements were intended; not the bristol board. That can't be dismissed or minimized. |
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jan 25, 2017 10:21:14 GMT -5
As I have said before, a floppy is just a copy of the original and in printing the floppy you are already removing the art from it's original place, which is the Bristol Board it was drawn on And yet floppy is the format for which the art and panel arrangements were intended; not the bristol board. That can't be dismissed or minimized. Also: comic art is not "fine art." It was created to be printed. Also, without getting into the whole "what is work for hire?" argument, for most of the history of comics, and generally through today, people are hired to write and draw stories because the publisher wanted/needed to put a book out. With undergrounds and later companies like Fantagraphics, publishers are willing to publish "personal" work, but everything is still created to be printed. That said, I've started buying comics on digital because I have enough "stuff." I want to read something, not own it. The fact that so much is available digitally and in (relatively, compared to original printings) low-priced reprints is a godsend for those of us who started collecting at a time when tracking down originals was the only way to read stuff. Finally, as much as many of us (like me) love the floppy format, it's outlived its usefulness and is probably holding comics back. |
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Jan 25, 2017 10:30:14 GMT -5
And yet floppy is the format for which the art and panel arrangements were intended; not the bristol board. That can't be dismissed or minimized. Also: comic art is not "fine art." It was created to be printed. Also, without getting into the whole "what is work for hire?" argument, for most of the history of comics, and generally through today, people are hired to write and draw stories because the publisher wanted/needed to put a book out. With undergrounds and later companies like Fantagraphics, publishers are willing to publish "personal" work, but everything is still created to be printed. That said, I've started buying comics on digital because I have enough "stuff." I want to read something, not own it. The fact that so much is available digitally and in (relatively, compared to original printings) low-priced reprints is a godsend for those of us who started collecting at a time when tracking down originals was the only way to read stuff. Finally, as much as many of us (like me) love the floppy format, it's outlived its usefulness and is probably holding comics back.I am stunned by that comment. I can only assume it was a joke, otherwise it makes no sense to me at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 10:59:02 GMT -5
Owning and reading are the same for me and maybe I am an anomaly in that regard. To read it, I must own it. I have no desire to read ASM #129 but I have a great desire to seek out a copy one day to add to my collection...and read it then. As a collector, I kind of get your point. However, I wouldn't cut my nose off to spite my face if I really wanted to read an old - and expensve to get - key issue of ASM. I would buy it on Comixology or a collected volume to read it, and then purchase the actual comic if I ever got the chance at a price I could afford. (A day which might or might not arrive, but at least I could go to my grave knowing that I got to read the story!) Each to their own and all that though... |
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 25, 2017 11:00:35 GMT -5
I think its a joke...sales of back issues, at least online and the desire for collectors to get "key" issues is at an all time high again. Variant books by certain artists are getting big money and back issues first appearances get a permanent boost every time the character appears in a show/move/commercial/whatever. It eventually dips and may dip big time if superheroes lose their power in hollywood. But until then its a great time for comics...except for the increased pain on the wallet.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 25, 2017 11:02:55 GMT -5
Owning and reading are the same for me and maybe I am an anomaly in that regard. To read it, I must own it. I have no desire to read ASM #129 but I have a great desire to seek out a copy one day to add to my collection...and read it then. As a collector, I kind of get your point. However, I wouldn't cut my nose off to spite my face if I really wanted to read an old - and expensve to get - key issue of ASM. I would buy it on Comixology or a collected volume to read it, and then purchase the actual comic if I ever got the chance at a price I could afford. (A day which might or might not arrive, but at least I could go to my grave knowing that I got to read the story!) Each to their own and all that though... And I may very well get to that point where, when older, I will still not have it and it will be the hole in my collection so I will find a reprint and use that. But if I read it now, I have read it. I would want to chase something I havent read. I try to collect in the mindset that I am in the 70's or 80's with no access other than finding the books themselves in floppy format. It makes the hobby fun for me that way. And also keeps my budget for comics honest. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 11:19:11 GMT -5
Also: comic art is not "fine art." It was created to be printed. Also, without getting into the whole "what is work for hire?" argument, for most of the history of comics, and generally through today, people are hired to write and draw stories because the publisher wanted/needed to put a book out. With undergrounds and later companies like Fantagraphics, publishers are willing to publish "personal" work, but everything is still created to be printed. That said, I've started buying comics on digital because I have enough "stuff." I want to read something, not own it. The fact that so much is available digitally and in (relatively, compared to original printings) low-priced reprints is a godsend for those of us who started collecting at a time when tracking down originals was the only way to read stuff. Finally, as much as many of us (like me) love the floppy format, it's outlived its usefulness and is probably holding comics back.I am stunned by that comment. I can only assume it was a joke, otherwise it makes no sense to me at all. The floppy format does not fit with the way modern audiences consume their narrative entertainment at all. It is too short a segment of the whole, too infrequently released, and overpriced. It is only available in inconvenient niche market outlets and does not reach enough of an audience to be relevant to anyone who did not already grow up reading the format, which is an aging, disappearing customer base, and it is not attracting a new audience to replace them. The characters are. Panels and pages in other formats are. Floppies are not. Hence it has outlived its usefulness as a format to deliver the content (i.e. art & stories) to a mass audience cheaply which is what the format was intended to do when it was put together in the 1930s. Back issue sales were never part of the intended use of the format and is irrelevant to its continued suitability as a delivery system for content to a mass audience. -M |
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Jan 25, 2017 11:48:32 GMT -5
I am stunned by that comment. I can only assume it was a joke, otherwise it makes no sense to me at all. The floppy format does not fit with the way modern audiences consume their narrative entertainment at all. It is too short a segment of the whole, too infrequently released, and overpriced. It is only available in inconvenient niche market outlets and does not reach enough of an audience to be relevant to anyone who did not already grow up reading the format, which is an aging, disappearing customer base, and it is not attracting a new audience to replace them. The characters are. Panels and pages in other formats are. Floppies are not. Hence it has outlived its usefulness as a format to deliver the content (i.e. art & stories) to a mass audience cheaply which is what the format was intended to do when it was put together in the 1930s. Back issue sales were never part of the intended use of the format and is irrelevant to its continued suitability as a delivery system for content to a mass audience. -M Well so long as that "ageing, disappearing customer base" has not yet disappeared, it has not yet outlived its usefulness. |
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jan 25, 2017 12:23:24 GMT -5
I am stunned by that comment. I can only assume it was a joke, otherwise it makes no sense to me at all. The floppy format does not fit with the way modern audiences consume their narrative entertainment at all. It is too short a segment of the whole, too infrequently released, and overpriced. It is only available in inconvenient niche market outlets and does not reach enough of an audience to be relevant to anyone who did not already grow up reading the format, which is an aging, disappearing customer base, and it is not attracting a new audience to replace them. The characters are. Panels and pages in other formats are. Floppies are not. Hence it has outlived its usefulness as a format to deliver the content (i.e. art & stories) to a mass audience cheaply which is what the format was intended to do when it was put together in the 1930s. Back issue sales were never part of the intended use of the format and is irrelevant to its continued suitability as a delivery system for content to a mass audience. -M This is much like what the video game market is going through. Instead of shelves and shelves of cartridges and discs, a new generation of gamers would rather have a 300TB hard drive to store their games. Carts and discs that are selling are selling to old stubborn mules like myself that have some attachment to physical media. But even then I can't justify it when Microsoft has 85% of sales on downloadable games; getting Dishonored or an Assassin's Creed game that both at release are $60, and most used discs still going for $20 or more; at $7 or $8 or so because I was willing to download it. Just like every generation before us, something new and more appealing to the larger mass of younger people consuming stuff in a hobby that was different when we did. Younger kids don't have attachments to the physical and are fine with owning digital. Rather small niche things, like vinyl, pass through the generations because both old and new agree it offers something more that digital doesn't. Where as cassette tapes, 8-tracks and VHS don't so they become obsolete. I can imagine in my lifetime video game discs and printed single issues of comics, have a good chance of going that route. |
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 25, 2017 12:26:34 GMT -5
I am stunned by that comment. I can only assume it was a joke, otherwise it makes no sense to me at all. The floppy format does not fit with the way modern audiences consume their narrative entertainment at all. It is too short a segment of the whole, too infrequently released, and overpriced. It is only available in inconvenient niche market outlets and does not reach enough of an audience to be relevant to anyone who did not already grow up reading the format, which is an aging, disappearing customer base, and it is not attracting a new audience to replace them. The characters are. Panels and pages in other formats are. Floppies are not. Hence it has outlived its usefulness as a format to deliver the content (i.e. art & stories) to a mass audience cheaply which is what the format was intended to do when it was put together in the 1930s. Back issue sales were never part of the intended use of the format and is irrelevant to its continued suitability as a delivery system for content to a mass audience. -M Curses. MRP beat me too it. I hate posting just to agree. But this is spot on. The floppy format is a dinosaur kept around for hard-core collectors. I don't believe this is the standard format in any other countries...though I'll be happy to be corrected. |
|
