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Post by Batflunkie on Mar 22, 2017 20:37:01 GMT -5
Whatever his flaws, I can't forget that it was Jim Shooter who gave me my shot at going pro back in '81. During that period, he was never less than kind, patient, and encouraging, even telling me at one point that I had the potential to be the next John Byrne. That I failed to live up to that potential wasn't his fault. My association with him ended by mid-1982, before his megalomaniacal tendencies began to affect the books, but in that time I came to respect Shooter's grasp of how the medium worked (even if I found his personal approach to storytelling too conservative for my taste). Much as I might criticize him, I will always have warm feelings for Jim. It's been a full year since I joined and I'm still waiting for you to divulge what you submitted/worked on for Marvel before you threw in the proverbial towel  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 20:39:53 GMT -5
Yes! I want to know also.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 22, 2017 20:55:16 GMT -5
I was given a Dr. Strange fill-in story written by another rookie whose name escapes me some 35 years later. It was a daunting assignment for a newbie, especially since fully a third of the story is set on the subway, something this Pacific Northwesterner had no experience of. As far as I know, none of those pages still exist, as they were one of several packets of pencil art stolen from Marvel's mailroom around that time. No doubt the thief, seeing the art was by a nobody (and, in hindsight, not very good), simply tossed them out.
Cei-U!
I summon the bummer!
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Post by Batflunkie on Mar 22, 2017 21:00:17 GMT -5
I was given a Dr. Strange fill-in story written by another rookie whose name escapes me some 35 years later. It was a daunting assignment for a newbie, especially since fully a third of the story is set on the subway, something this Pacific Northwesterner had no experience of. As far as I know, none of those pages still exist, as they were one of several packets of pencil art stolen from Marvel's mailroom around that time. No doubt the thief, seeing the art was by a nobody (and, in hindsight, not very good), simply tossed them out. As an amateur writer and former amateur artist, my heart goes out to you. It's always difficult to see somebody deface your work with little or no regard for how much of your heart and soul you poured into it |
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Post by Chris on Mar 22, 2017 23:24:31 GMT -5
[Jim Shooter] ... threw out a proposal for a plot twist where "mysterious figure" that helped Johnny Blaze out from time to time was actually, infact, God/Jesus According to Shooter, he didn't throw that out, although he did bring it to the attention of higher-ups. "Tony [Isabella] tried to have Ghost Rider redeemed by Christ in the flesh, on panel. I thought that I'd better ask Marv about that when I saw it. He thought it was inappropriate. So did Stan. Many religions have a hell, and Marvel had several. But the Christian Heaven is a very specific place reached via redemption through Christ. The big point here is that Marv and Stan and agreed that Marvel should leave that concept open to faith, interpretation and personal experience. Just as it is in the real world." [Source: Rooting Out Corruption at Marvel – Part Two of a Bunch] This took place when Marv Wolfman was Editor-In-Chief. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 23:51:04 GMT -5
I was given a Dr. Strange fill-in story written by another rookie whose name escapes me some 35 years later. It was a daunting assignment for a newbie, especially since fully a third of the story is set on the subway, something this Pacific Northwesterner had no experience of. As far as I know, none of those pages still exist, as they were one of several packets of pencil art stolen from Marvel's mailroom around that time. No doubt the thief, seeing the art was by a nobody (and, in hindsight, not very good), simply tossed them out. Cei-U! I summon the bummer! You must have been an outstanding artist to have been given work on a Marvel title. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 23, 2017 3:29:28 GMT -5
Jim Shooter was by no means perfect, but as far as far as I'm concerned, his time at Marvel gave us some damn good material, and his departure marked the beginning of their creative decline. He gets an A from me.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 23, 2017 4:49:10 GMT -5
It kind of makes me sad to consider that People like Shooter are virtually gone from this world in that he demanded quality and professionalism. When you look around the world these days and see the incompetence that is accepted, you wish there was a boss somewhere that demanded a good standard of work.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on Mar 23, 2017 5:10:41 GMT -5
Jim Shooter was by no means perfect, but as far as far as I'm concerned, his time at Marvel gave us some damn good material, and his departure marked the beginning of their creative decline. He gets an A from me. This is my feeling exactly. The Marvel comics I enjoyed thrived under his tenure as EiC. He may've been hard to work with, but judging him purely from the point of view of a reader during that period, he's alright with me. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 23, 2017 5:23:06 GMT -5
Jim Shooter was by no means perfect, but as far as far as I'm concerned, his time at Marvel gave us some damn good material, and his departure marked the beginning of their creative decline. He gets an A from me. This is my feeling exactly. The Marvel comics I enjoyed thrived under his tenure as EiC. He may've been hard to work with, but judging him purely from the point of view of a reader during that period, he's alright with me. Sure if your just a selfish consumer and only care about the finished product you see, then you would love Jim Shooter. Never mind how he drove away creators like Gene Colan and Roy Thomas. Never mind how he sided with Marvel management against Jack Kirby in returning his art. He got issues of Dazzler out in time and that's what counts for ones legacy. What goes around comes around. No one wants to hire him. It came to the point of him having to go back to what he did as a 14 year old and write Legion stories again. And for supreme irony, he got thrown out before he could finish his storyline. |
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Confessor
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Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Mar 23, 2017 5:37:00 GMT -5
This is my feeling exactly. The Marvel comics I enjoyed thrived under his tenure as EiC. He may've been hard to work with, but judging him purely from the point of view of a reader during that period, he's alright with me. Sure if your just a selfish consumer and only care about the finished product you see, then you would love Jim Shooter. Never mind how he drove away creators like Gene Colan and Roy Thomas. Never mind how he sided with Marvel management against Jack Kirby in returning his art. He got issues of Dazzler out in time and that's what counts for ones legacy. But...yeah, that is kind of all I care about, because it's the only part of Shooter's legacy that directly touched me. He might well have been an amateur human being and a total a**hole to work with, but there are a lot of a**holes in this world and, anyway, I didn't work with him. Can we not enjoy the fruits of creatives just because of their conduct towards the people they work with might be repugnant? If that's gonna be the case, then I need to stop listening to so much old blues music, because a lot of those guys were misogynistic, womanising criminals and/or murderers. Same goes for someone like Ike Turner: he was a king-sized a**hole and a much, much worse human being than Jim Shooter, but I still think he made great, great records in the 60s and 70s. The people Shooter may or may not have been crappy to at Marvel were still getting paid, however unpleasant working under him might've been -- it's not as if he was some kind of slaver, exploiting children in a sweatshop or something. He was just an a**hole boss (allegedly). There are a lot of them about! Let's get some perspective here. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 23, 2017 6:16:22 GMT -5
This is my feeling exactly. The Marvel comics I enjoyed thrived under his tenure as EiC. He may've been hard to work with, but judging him purely from the point of view of a reader during that period, he's alright with me. Sure if your just a selfish consumer and only care about the finished product you see, then you would love Jim Shooter. Never mind how he drove away creators like Gene Colan and Roy Thomas. Never mind how he sided with Marvel management against Jack Kirby in returning his art. He got issues of Dazzler out in time and that's what counts for ones legacy. What goes around comes around. No one wants to hire him. It came to the point of him having to go back to what he did as a 14 year old and write Legion stories again. And for supreme irony, he got thrown out before he could finish his storyline. There's 2 sides to every story, Ish. Roy Thomas left because he wanted to manipulate Marvel comics into letting him write Conan while working for DC and the upper management didn't know that he had already signed with DC. I was a boss for a while and it sometimes becomes a situation where you have to babysit people and force them to do what they are getting paid to do. Foe every prima dona that has a negative story about Shooter, there is one that has a good story of support and loyalty. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 23, 2017 6:17:35 GMT -5
My points are part of a perspective of what makes an editor outstanding. Besides getting the trains running on time like Mussolini, it's the staff he builds and maintains to keep the company on top. Jim Shooter took over a company that was already far ahead of all competition in sales and quality. At the end of Shooter's run, I see enough talent had jumped over to DC and independents leaving Marvel, on a whole as rather bland.
Just compare the outpouring of new ideas and titles generated during the Roy Thomas years. Strong creator-driven concepts with unique voices.Under Jim Shooter we get loads of license titles and The New Universe .
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 23, 2017 6:19:29 GMT -5
Sure if your just a selfish consumer and only care about the finished product you see, then you would love Jim Shooter. Never mind how he drove away creators like Gene Colan and Roy Thomas. Never mind how he sided with Marvel management against Jack Kirby in returning his art. He got issues of Dazzler out in time and that's what counts for ones legacy. What goes around comes around. No one wants to hire him. It came to the point of him having to go back to what he did as a 14 year old and write Legion stories again. And for supreme irony, he got thrown out before he could finish his storyline. There's 2 sides to every story, Ish. Roy Thomas left because he wanted to manipulate Marvel comics into letting him write Conan while working for DC and the upper management didn't know that he had already signed with DC. I was a boss for a while and it sometimes becomes a situation where you have to babysit people and force them to do what they are getting paid to do. Foe every prima dona that has a negative story about Shooter, there is one that has a good story of support and loyalty. What's your source for this Roy Thomas story (besides if it came from Jim Shooter's blog)? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 23, 2017 8:05:24 GMT -5
It did. And it says that Jim Gaulten was the one insulted when Roy had already cut the deal with DC.
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