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Post by Spike-X on Mar 25, 2017 2:53:23 GMT -5
Miracleman #3 is probably one of my favourite single issues of all time.
OF ALL TIME!
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 25, 2017 3:13:54 GMT -5
Just a side bar on Big ben, The Man With No Time for Crime! The character first appeared in the Warrior Summer Special (which is the 4th issue of Warrior).  He's pretty much a superhero version of John Steed, of the tv show, The Avengers. he has the same umbrella and Bowler hat that became synonymous with Steed. he operates out of a secret lair within the actual Big Ben clock, in Elizabeth Tower, at Westminster (aka The Houses of Parliament). He was created by Moore and Dez Skinn and Skinn wrote his adventures in Warrior, before handing him over to a young Grant Morrison. There, the reality is different than in Marvelman.  The stories that were published were delightfully tongue-in-cheek and one even spoofs The Prisoner. Sorry to be contradictory, but as I recall, Ben was created by Dez Skinn, the original concept predating Warrior. Moore used him, but I don't think he can be said to have created him. I believe Dez owns the rights to the character, or at least he did, just as Garry Leach owned the rights to the Warpsmiths. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 25, 2017 9:32:57 GMT -5
Just a side bar on Big ben, The Man With No Time for Crime! The character first appeared in the Warrior Summer Special (which is the 4th issue of Warrior). He's pretty much a superhero version of John Steed, of the tv show, The Avengers. he has the same umbrella and Bowler hat that became synonymous with Steed. he operates out of a secret lair within the actual Big Ben clock, in Elizabeth Tower, at Westminster (aka The Houses of Parliament). He was created by Moore and Dez Skinn and Skinn wrote his adventures in Warrior, before handing him over to a young Grant Morrison. There, the reality is different than in Marvelman. The stories that were published were delightfully tongue-in-cheek and one even spoofs The Prisoner. Sorry to be contradictory, but as I recall, Ben was created by Dez Skinn, the original concept predating Warrior. Moore used him, but I don't think he can be said to have created him. I believe Dez owns the rights to the character, or at least he did, just as Garry Leach owned the rights to the Warpsmiths. Okay, I bow to your more likely knowledge. The internet info is sparse and mostly consists of a skimpy wikipedia article. I didn't go looking into my Warrior scans to verify. I knew Skinn owned it; but, wasn't sure if it was outright or shared. I did know about Gary Leach and the Warpsmiths. Didn't that come into play with the legal battles over Miracleman, as far as potential reprints? I seem to recall some question about Marvel being able to reprint Olympus, without Leach's approval/compensation, due to the use of the Warpsmiths. I edited the original post. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 25, 2017 10:18:17 GMT -5
Marvel certainly wouldn't have been able to reprint any of the material featuring the Warpsmiths or Big Ben wihout the permission of those characters' respective owners. In fact, as I understand it, the way Warrior was set up meant that all the creators owned the rights to their own work in perpetuity, so they'd have needed permission from both Moore and Leach to reprint anything anyway, although I gather Moore basically wasn't interested and just said they could do what they wanted with it so long as a) they took his name off it and b) they gave any royalties due to him to Mick Anglo and his family instead.
Kimota: the Miracleman Companion by George Khoury delves a lot deeper into the legal situation as it stood prior to Marvel's acquisition of the material, and is a fascinating read. On a rather more biased note, I'd also recommend issue #11 of Crikey! the magazine of British comics, which contains an interview on the subject with Dez Skinn, but that's mostly because I wrote it.
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Post by starscape on Mar 25, 2017 16:34:42 GMT -5
Definitely up there as one of comics' greatest stories and my favourite Alan Moore. I don't really care about the story ever finishing. I've never cared for Gaiman's stuff (I found Sandman unreadable) and felt everything post-Moore was incredibly disappointing.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 25, 2017 18:53:01 GMT -5
Definitely up there as one of comics' greatest stories and my favourite Alan Moore. I don't really care about the story ever finishing. I've never cared for Gaiman's stuff (I found Sandman unreadable) and felt everything post-Moore was incredibly disappointing. The Golden Age was a different duck, to be sure; but, I dug some of what Gaiman was doing there, especially the issue where Gargunza tries to escape his reanimated boundaries and the issue that was an homage to The Prisoner, as former spies play games in a contained world. The Silver Age barely got started; but, it seemed like it was closer in tone to what Moore had done. not the same; but closer. Who knows what Miracleman Triumphant would have been, had it ever got launched. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 25, 2017 18:55:58 GMT -5
Marvel certainly wouldn't have been able to reprint any of the material featuring the Warpsmiths or Big Ben wihout the permission of those characters' respective owners. In fact, as I understand it, the way Warrior was set up meant that all the creators owned the rights to their own work in perpetuity, so they'd have needed permission from both Moore and Leach to reprint anything anyway, although I gather Moore basically wasn't interested and just said they could do what they wanted with it so long as a) they took his name off it and b) they gave any royalties due to him to Mick Anglo and his family instead. Kimota: the Miracleman Companion by George Khoury delves a lot deeper into the legal situation as it stood prior to Marvel's acquisition of the material, and is a fascinating read. On a rather more biased note, I'd also recommend issue #11 of Crikey! the magazine of British comics, which contains an interview on the subject with Dez Skinn, but that's mostly because I wrote it. I was going to get to Kimota and probably still will. Great reference book (as is the THUNDER Agents Companion). It has input from pretty much everyone, including Chuck Beckum, aka Chuck Austen. he had the dubious distinction of following Alan Davis and he wasn't ready, in my book. He gave it a good try, though. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 26, 2017 1:40:18 GMT -5
Marvel certainly wouldn't have been able to reprint any of the material featuring the Warpsmiths or Big Ben wihout the permission of those characters' respective owners. In fact, as I understand it, the way Warrior was set up meant that all the creators owned the rights to their own work in perpetuity, so they'd have needed permission from both Moore and Leach to reprint anything anyway, although I gather Moore basically wasn't interested and just said they could do what they wanted with it so long as a) they took his name off it and b) they gave any royalties due to him to Mick Anglo and his family instead. Kimota: the Miracleman Companion by George Khoury delves a lot deeper into the legal situation as it stood prior to Marvel's acquisition of the material, and is a fascinating read. On a rather more biased note, I'd also recommend issue #11 of Crikey! the magazine of British comics, which contains an interview on the subject with Dez Skinn, but that's mostly because I wrote it. I was going to get to Kimota and probably still will. Great reference book (as is the THUNDER Agents Companion). It has input from pretty much everyone, including Chuck Beckum, aka Chuck Austen. he had the dubious distinction of following Alan Davis and he wasn't ready, in my book. He gave it a good try, though. Unfortunately, I think Chuck Austen was out of his depth and the sudden shift from Davis's dynamic stye to Austen's perfectly serviceable but unremarkable art detracted a bit from the power of the script. Also, Mike Moran's missing two fingers suddenly regrew themselves... |
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Post by Spike-X on Mar 26, 2017 3:43:01 GMT -5
Definitely up there as one of comics' greatest stories and my favourite Alan Moore. I don't really care about the story ever finishing. I've never cared for Gaiman's stuff (I found Sandman unreadable) and felt everything post-Moore was incredibly disappointing. Well, okay then... |
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Post by Spike-X on Mar 26, 2017 3:45:56 GMT -5
I was going to get to Kimota and probably still will. Great reference book (as is the THUNDER Agents Companion). It has input from pretty much everyone, including Chuck Beckum, aka Chuck Austen. he had the dubious distinction of following Alan Davis and he wasn't ready, in my book. He gave it a good try, though. Unfortunately, I think Chuck Austen was out of his depth and the sudden shift from Davis's dynamic stye to Austen's perfectly serviceable but unremarkable art detracted a bit from the power of the script. Also, Mike Moran's missing two fingers suddenly regrew themselves... I remember reading back in the day that Austen had been trying out a new style at the time, hence the psuedonym. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 26, 2017 6:48:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think Chuck Austen was out of his depth and the sudden shift from Davis's dynamic stye to Austen's perfectly serviceable but unremarkable art detracted a bit from the power of the script. Also, Mike Moran's missing two fingers suddenly regrew themselves... I remember reading back in the day that Austen had been trying out a new style at the time, hence the psuedonym. If I were him, I'd have tried to distance myself from it, too. He'd have been better off sticking to what he knew he could do. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 26, 2017 6:57:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think Chuck Austen was out of his depth and the sudden shift from Davis's dynamic stye to Austen's perfectly serviceable but unremarkable art detracted a bit from the power of the script. Also, Mike Moran's missing two fingers suddenly regrew themselves... I remember reading back in the day that Austen had been trying out a new style at the time, hence the psuedonym. I believe he said, in the Kimota interview, that he actually changed his name due to a contentious relationship with his father. Beckum was his legal surname. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 26, 2017 20:45:43 GMT -5
Miracleman #4  Not a fan of Jim Starlin's cover; even Howard Chaykin's cover is better. Neither was up to Gary Leach's covers for the first two issues. The first chapter opens with our first full introduction (apart from the history tapes) of Dr Emil Gargunza, the creator of Miraclemen, while he hunts a jaguar, in South America. This is juxtaposed with Mike and Liz arguing, which Mike can't handle, so he shifts to Miracleman. Evelyn Cream warns of Sir Dennis Archer, saying that if anything happens to him or the Morans, the media get evidence from the Zarathustra bunker. Archer warns Cream that he can't trust or control Miracleman. We see Johnny Bates in a hospital, nearly catatonic. A nurse tries to feed him, as his psyche is tormented by Kid Miracleman. This scene is really creepy and shows how evil Kid Miracleman has become, as he makes vulgar suggestions about the nurse, and causes Johnny to let slip that he chooses not to release Kid Miracleman, not that he can't.  Miracleman calms Liz and makes love to her. He has clarity of mind; Mike is a neurotic mess. Can Liz depend on either? Does she matter to Miracleman> The next chapter has Miracleman encounter 9 year-old Jason Oakey in the woods. Jason thinks a nuclear war may be coming and has stashed supplies in a hollow tree. Miracleman is thinking when Jason comes up and asks if he is a superhero and/or a homosexual. Miracleman demonstrates what he can do and the pair part as friends. Miracleman joyfully returns home, only to find the place wrecked and Liz gone. In the next chapter he calls Cream and they investigate. Cream calls Sir Dennis and threatens that Miracleman will destroy all of the major cities in the UK, moving northward, until Liz is released. Sir Dennis pleads that he doesn't know where she is and Cream believes him. Miracleman then thinks of Bates and Cream calls the hospital and learns that Bates is still unresponsive. Liz is being studied via spectrographs, infra-red, and ultrasound. She awakens in a bedroom and Dr Emil Gargunza enters and introduces himself as Miracleman's father and says that soon Miracleman will be his father, as he touches Liz's abdomen. We lastly see a flashback as Gargunza observes a para-reality scenario, that he isn't running. The Miracleman Family spot a fantasy castle/town, called Sleepytown and head over to investigate. Inside, they find three bodies, with tubes attached. gargunza realizes that their subconscious is rebelling against the programming and takes steps to fight, sicking vampires on them. This issue begins Book Two of Miracleman, "The Red King Syndrome." We get a lot of set-up here, as we see that Gargunza is a genius and twisted. The original character was the equivalent of Dr Sivanna; but, this is not a mad scientist. This is an amoral scientist, who can reverse-engineer alien technology and DNA and create a superbeing. He then keeps the superbeings under control via mental programming. Now, he has the unborn child of a superbeing. This man is far more dangerous than the World's Maddest Scientist. We also get served notice that Kid Miracleman has not been eliminated as a threat. He is torturing young Johnny Bates' mind and he has the upper hand. We know it is only a matter of time before he gets loose again and that it will be terrible. Alan Davis does wonders with the art, mixing the fantasy of the Red King scenario, nightmares inside Cream's head, and the South American jungle. Alan Moore is upping the game again, adding more and more threats to Miracleman and showing that his powers aren't absolute. The Red King Syndrome features some of the most interesting and powerful work within Moore's run of the series. A Dream of Flying (Book one) was a slam-bang intro, with an amazing climax; but, this goes deeper and will get to the heart of why Miracleman exists, who his creator is, and his true potential. It will also get at the future of Mike Moran, though it won't resolve it. |
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Post by berkley on Mar 26, 2017 23:28:34 GMT -5
Definitely up there as one of comics' greatest stories and my favourite Alan Moore. I don't really care about the story ever finishing. I've never cared for Gaiman's stuff (I found Sandman unreadable) and felt everything post-Moore was incredibly disappointing. Well, okay then... I feel much the same way as Starscape as far as Marvel/Miracleman goes. I don't find Sandman unreadable, but I've read only the first collection - which I understand isn't the best of it - and haven't been motivated to continue with it yet, though I expect I will try at least the next volume one of these days. I've mentioned my problem with Gaiman previously on other threads - basically, I had the bad luck to read some of his lesser work for Marvel - specifically 1692 (or whatever) and his attempted revival of the Eternals, and found them pretty bad, so it turned me off his stuff in general. It's a bit unfair, because I know that if I had read, for example, Warren Ellis's Marvel comics or Grant Morrison's DC before reading their independent stuff I would have more than likely been turned off theirs stuff in general as well. But there you go. So yeah, I don't feel much desire to read Marvelman past the end of Alan Moore's run, even though I believe he personally handed it over to Gaiman, so he must have thought he'd be a worthy successor. Back to Moore's Marvelman, I know Alan Davis is a fan favourite, and he does good work on the series, but I much prefer the Gary Leach's artwork in his brief run and always wished he would have stayed on the book. |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 27, 2017 12:02:13 GMT -5
He was created by Dez Skinn who wrote his adventures in Warrior, before handing him over to a young Grant Morrison. There, the reality is different than in Marvelman. Another slight correction: Dez Skinn himself wrote the Big Ben strip. Morrison wrote a couple episodes of "The Liberators," a series started by Dez and in the same continuity as this version of Big Ben (who is actually a shapechanging alien). |
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