Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Apr 18, 2017 10:50:31 GMT -5
As far as being a possible rehash, I give them the benefit of the doubt. The prequel trilogy left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. TFA was definitely heavy with fan service and nostalgia, but I get the thinking behind it. They were basically trying to get people to forget about the prequels, remember everything they loved about the OT, and attempt to restore confidence that they could make a good Star Wars movie that didn't have kiddie-pandering characters, over-reliance on digital effects, or bad writing. I don't think they were going for a home run with TFA, because in order to do that you'd have to take more risks. To further the baseball analogy, I honestly think they were going for a solid double -- nothing to make you stand and cheer, but just enough to give you some good feelings like they might be able to take this franchise somewhere. I'm sure you're right about what the studio's thinking was, but I don't for a minute accept that they couldn't have also have made a film that would've made people "remember everything they loved about the OT" and also told a story that wasn't hopelessly derivative of Episode IV - A New Hope. The problem, I think, lays with J. J. Abrams -- he's a vacuous, Hollywood blockbuster merchant. I mean, honestly, have any of his films ever had any kind of intelligent or emotional core to them? Not that I've seen. Star Wars is a popcorn movie, sure, but it should also have a lot of soul and that's one of the main things that was lacking from The Force Awakens IMO.
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Apr 18, 2017 11:06:18 GMT -5
As far as being a possible rehash, I give them the benefit of the doubt. The prequel trilogy left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. TFA was definitely heavy with fan service and nostalgia, but I get the thinking behind it. They were basically trying to get people to forget about the prequels, remember everything they loved about the OT, and attempt to restore confidence that they could make a good Star Wars movie that didn't have kiddie-pandering characters, over-reliance on digital effects, or bad writing. I don't think they were going for a home run with TFA, because in order to do that you'd have to take more risks. To further the baseball analogy, I honestly think they were going for a solid double -- nothing to make you stand and cheer, but just enough to give you some good feelings like they might be able to take this franchise somewhere. I'm sure you're right about what the studio's thinking was, but I don't for a minute accept that they couldn't have also have made a film that would've made people "remember everything they loved about the OT" and also told a story that wasn't hopelessly derivative of Episode IV - A New Hope. For me personally, Rogue One had a lot more of what I love about Star Wars than The Force Awakens did. (I just saw Rogue One this Sunday; it was superb).
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 18, 2017 13:34:49 GMT -5
I agree about Rogue One, though I just wish it would have slowed down a little, to give the characters more time. Star Wars has a breakneck pace; but, I always felt they gave the characters enough time to really become established. really, when you watch it vs later films, the pace is almost leisurely.
I also agree about Abrams. Everything he has done seems highly derivative and lacking the emotion of what he is aping. Tarantino wears his influences on his sleeve; but, does something different with them. Abrams seems to want to do the same, with lens flares and little character development. I don't profess to have seen all of his work, though. The Star Trek films are really devoid of the intelligence of the series and the better movies. His feel like action movies with characters who took their names from Trek, but not their personalities. Force Awakens felt much the same. I'm more interested in Po than I am Rey, yet I know she will be the focus. Ben Solo even felt flat to me.
I'd rather see more movies like Rogue One, without having to tie directly into the originals. Let's see other characters deal with things in this world. At one point, I would applaud the Han Solo film, though, after what I have seen, I suspect it won't dwell on the things I think would make it good. I suspect we will get 2 hours of someone trying to be Harrison Ford, rather than seeing how Han evolved from orphaned cabin boy, to court martialled officer, to smuggler and con-artist (assuming they stick with any of that backstory).
I suppose it is a tricky thing; they want the feel of the old, yet want something for a new generation. Make it too knew and you lose fans of the old; too old and the new generation don't care. Thing is, if the new has the spirit, yet treads new ground, the old will follow and the young will come. The other problem is corporate filmmaking. Star Wars was part of that 70s film rebellion. The problem is, that Rebellion grew into an Empire.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 18, 2017 13:41:18 GMT -5
What I'd really like to see is someone do a sharp comedy, within the Star wars universe. Not a parody; but, a fun romp through the galaxy; something like Tag & Bink, from Kevin Rubio.
I've also proposed that the long promised Star Wars tv series should be a family situation comedy, Vader Knows Best. Darth, Amidala, Luke and Leia live in the suburbs, while Darth goes off to work everyday (in his TIE fighter). Leia has a bad boy boyfriend, Han Solo, who her parents hate. Luke hangs out with a crazy old man, instead of doing his chores and his homework. Yoda is their kooky neighbor. Jar Jar can be like Tiger, on the Brady Bunch, and disappear, mysteriously, and never be mentioned again.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Apr 18, 2017 16:56:19 GMT -5
The other problem is corporate filmmaking. Star Wars was part of that 70s film rebellion. The problem is, that Rebellion grew into an Empire. This. This is partly why the odds are stacked against any SW film capturing the spirit of the original trilogy. Rogue One came close, but as I said elsewhere recently, that mostly seems to have been a British production and I suspect that's why it was so much better than TFA. Being removed from Hollywood, it had something of that independent spirit that the original trilogy had, despite being a Disney production.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Apr 20, 2017 6:19:13 GMT -5
One of the reasons I loved the New Jedi Order series was that it really evolved the franchise. Finally the enemy was something not related to the empire or the sith. Finally there was an opponent it made sense for trained Jedi to struggle with. Finally the next generation got to shine, but the original big 3 were still as relevant as ever. And I liked the new and expanded understanding of the as not being divided between light and dark sides. It was different, but stll respected what came before.
What turned me off to the Star Wars EU and what I believe killed it was the next big 'crossover event,' Legacy of the Force. For some reason they decided to undo all of the advancement of the NJO, completely ruin their star next generation character by turning him into a sith for no reason, and regress the force back what it was before. It's amazing how they turned their backs on everything that made the previous event work.
The sad thing was that the idea of what the Jedi should do in a war where neither side is more right than the other was a good one and would have been unique to the Star Wars franchise, but they decided to rehash the prequels of all things instead of following through with that. LOTF was so bad that I didn't even mind losing the EU and characters like the Solo twins and Kyle Katarn.
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Post by Randle-El on Apr 24, 2017 11:14:43 GMT -5
The trailer looks to at least be teasing the possibility of Skywalker embracing some form of neutral Force alignment -- neither light nor dark side. His last line "It's time for the Jedi to end" seems to indicate this. I've read some things online that theorize the whole "bringing balance to the Force" from the prequels is meant to point to this. There was an article, I think it was on Screen Rant, that postulated this theory that the Jedi of the prequel era were basically not much better than the Sith. While they embraced the side of "good", they were also dogmatic, rigid, and complacent to the point that they couldn't even see the threat under their very noses. So their ultimate demise to the Sith was in many ways of their own making, and that the real solution to the dark/light side struggle is not for one to vanquish the other, but for a new order to come along that recognizes the strengths of each and achieves balance between the two.
This would be an interesting development, but I'm not sure how I feel about it quite yet. It feels like a retcon to me personally. The OT trilogy only ever presented the Jedi as the ultimate good guys, and I'm not sure how much I like idea of presenting them as an order Force users with an equally valid (or invalid) perspective on the Force as the Sith.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Apr 24, 2017 12:33:18 GMT -5
The trailer looks to at least be teasing the possibility of Skywalker embracing some form of neutral Force alignment -- neither light nor dark side. His last line "It's time for the Jedi to end" seems to indicate this. I've read some things online that theorize the whole "bringing balance to the Force" from the prequels is meant to point to this. There was an article, I think it was on Screen Rant, that postulated this theory that the Jedi of the prequel era were basically not much better than the Sith. While they embraced the side of "good", they were also dogmatic, rigid, and complacent to the point that they couldn't even see the threat under their very noses. So their ultimate demise to the Sith was in many ways of their own making, and that the real solution to the dark/light side struggle is not for one to vanquish the other, but for a new order to come along that recognizes the strengths of each and achieves balance between the two. This would be an interesting development, but I'm not sure how I feel about it quite yet. It feels like a retcon to me personally. The OT trilogy only ever presented the Jedi as the ultimate good guys, and I'm not sure how much I like idea of presenting them as an order Force users with an equally valid (or invalid) perspective on the Force as the Sith. The Jedi were definitely meant to come across as too rigid and dogmatic and partially responsible for their own destruction in the prequels. While not as blatant as the corruption and powerlessness of the Senate, from their treatment of Anakin, the rules against possession and marriage, and their failures in the Clone Wars were meant to be seen as flaws. The Revenge of the Sith novelization says outright that Yoda ran away from his duel with Palpatine because he had an epiphany about how the Jedi had doomed themselves by staying the same for a thousand years, and the Clone Wars series depicts the Jedi Council as becoming corrupted by the war. If Luke has really embraced the idea that the force is 1 and that both sides are of equal value then they may be bringing back the understanding from the New Jedi Order series. I'd be happy with that.
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Apr 24, 2017 13:12:59 GMT -5
I always thought it was strange that the Jedi were fine with growing a clone army to fight and die for them.
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Post by Warmonger on Apr 29, 2017 14:03:08 GMT -5
The Red Letter Media guys summed it up perfectly for me haha and I actually liked Rogue One.
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Post by String on May 3, 2017 14:44:42 GMT -5
I still have all my original EU novels so I'm good, thanks JJ.
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