shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on May 21, 2017 21:00:57 GMT -5
I saw this posted at the Comic Book Philosophers facebook page and got the author's permission to open it up for discussion here.
My own response:
But I suspect there's a more complex answer out there and would love to entertain a discussion in search of it.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 21:19:19 GMT -5
I think it reflects the rise in technology from the end of WWII on. In the past Science Fiction was more Science Fantasy. Then rockets were developed & we started to understand the solar system beyond Earth. I think Sci Fi became less fantasy & more "realistic".
Also it does reflect society. For example in Japanese fiction there are the themes of radiation created monsters in the past & South Korean fiction has themes of reunification.
The Cold War between Russia & the USA drove societal fears during the 50's & 60's. Hence the rise of super spy James Bond. After we landed on the moon look at the explosion of space based fiction. And as technology started to grow at a rapid pace themes of fear of technology taking over our lives became more popular. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 21:45:41 GMT -5
To me, I echo this quote from Robert Oppenheimer of who I have a great deal of respect for and he was the father of the atomic bomb.  To me, it's open a whole new world of destruction, hope, and it's allowed Man to enter the world of the unknown by the splitting of the atom and entering the world of atoms, electrons, protons, and the whole nine yards. Like Michael James said it perfectly ... Science Fiction became Reality and once that become Reality it's offered a world to Man that has no ending meaning its was the starting point of something new that's blows Man apart and created a whole new world of opportunity to either fear it or showcase it. Mankind understands that and must chose wisely of how to fear it or showcase it; sadly we all have seen both of them - creation of the Hydrogen Bomb and putting Man on the Moon in 1969 of which was the single most important event in the sixties and perhaps all time. We have to fear technology and that alone is a frightening thought. In a personal note to everyone here ... I wear hearing aids for more than 50 years and to think about the technology - my first hearing aid battery was half of the size of a Triple AAA battery and 50 years later they shrank that size down to battery of the size of a pea. Yet, it was 100 times more powerful than the battery of the old and that only lasted a day or two. Right now, batteries of the day lasted two weeks and that's was amazing considering the cost of the battery back then was nearly 50 cents a piece. Now days, it's hardly a dime or less. That's Progress. To me, it's about making the right choices to improve our ways of life and not to harm it. I've always fear technology more than embrace it. I'm more scared for my future generations because of the miracle of science that being imposed upon and having that fear and this fear is very real to me because it's open the door of the unknown and unknown is here at the tip of iceberg.  With more to come because we haven't gotten there yet and more room to explore and that alone creates more fear and hope to all humankind. This what our future generations will be facing ... and that alone makes me not wanting to think about. |
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Post by Rob Allen on May 22, 2017 15:10:28 GMT -5
I'm not at all sure that the balance between science and magic tilted all that far in either Age. Lots of Golden Age heroes & villains had scientific backgrounds of varying degrees of believability, and lots of Silver Age heroes & villains had magic.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 23, 2017 6:42:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's the case from Golden-Silver age, but definitely as things headed towards the Bronze age the science started getting more realistic... I think that's definitely due to the fan base getting older, and to a smaller extent the larger pool of writers who were better educated.
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Post by MDG on May 23, 2017 8:16:37 GMT -5
The first JLA I ever read reprinted the story from issue #2 in which the "science-based" dimension of Earth-1 is exchanged with "Magic Land," so the heroes science-based powers--as well as technology--don't work. I thought it was a great idea, but pretty much thrown out the window in other stories. I think it was after Julie took over Superman that it was actually codified that his only weaknesses were kryptonite and magic.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 22:12:50 GMT -5
I also think general knowledge caused these changes. Look at Science Fiction 100 years ago from ERB or Jules Verne compared to today.
ERB's stories about Mars are more fantasy & very different from today's Mars stories by Kim Stanley Robinson. Even Arthur Clarke's, Isaac Asminov's & Ray Bradbury's Mars stories from the 1950's were different in tone from ERB & today's stories.
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Post by chadwilliam on May 23, 2017 23:21:21 GMT -5
I'm not at all sure that the balance between science and magic tilted all that far in either Age. Lots of Golden Age heroes & villains had scientific backgrounds of varying degrees of believability, and lots of Silver Age heroes & villains had magic.
I don't think the "Magic Age" vs. "Science Age" really stands up to scrutiny. Superman's origin in Action Comics 1 was far more scientific than anything which followed. How could Superman leap such great distances, lift tremendous weights, possess such hardened skin? Well, look at the grasshopper which could leap the width of several city blocks if it were our size, or the lowly ant which can lift many times its own weight we were told. Silver age additions about red suns vs. yellow suns and Modern age additions about magic auras and telekinesis just seemed like poor attempts designed to confuse readers into thinking it wasn't worth the effort to consider the validity of these propositions.
Which isn't to say that the Golden Age always made an effort to rationalize things. Inhaling hard water fumes was all it took to convince kids that Jay Garrick could be granted the power of super speed in 1940 (or that mongoose blood could produce the same effects over at Timely) and perhaps by 1956 this was considered silly, but is a random bolt of lightning hitting a random assortment of chemicals that much more scientific? "Gee, what were in those chemicals Mr. Flash?" "Oh, you know Wally, sciencey compoundy chemicals. Stuff like...uh... Ingredient X and Compound Unknown and uh- LOOK OUT WALLY, HERE COMES ANOTHER BOLT OF LIGHTNING! Now you have powers too!"
There was something occultish about Alan Scott's origin - his Green Lantern ring seemed to be powered by something supernatural and even evil, but Hal Jordan's ring was a magic wand no matter how many blue skinned aliens said otherwise.
Had Captain America been created in the 1960's his origin would have likely contained atomic radiation sure as ten dimes gets you a dollar. In 1941 however, we got something so close to the reality of performance enhancing drugs that later updates focused more on vitality rays and other such scientific gobbledy gook.
I think this applies even today - much as I loathe Frank Miller's Batman work since Batman/Spawn for instance, I think he was ahead of the curve in realizing that what looked realistic in Dark Knight Returns would just look ridiculous today hence his embracing the sillier aspects of Year One/Dark Knight for his later Batman projects. What's realistic today is surely going to look like the stuff for children tomorrow.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 24, 2017 1:24:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's the case from Golden-Silver age, but definitely as things headed towards the Bronze age the science started getting more realistic... I think that's definitely due to the fan base getting older, and to a smaller extent the larger pool of writers who were better educated. I think that is more a reflection of the influence of Julie Schwartz at DC (and Mort Weisinger, to a certain extent). Both were sci-fi fans, with more connection to hard science. Schwartz's writers tended to go more for actual science and fewer "super chemicals" and other pseudo-science. The 1940s use of magic and secret training in mystical lands is a byproduct of the pulps and the popularity of James Hilton's Lost Horizon. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 24, 2017 9:49:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's the case from Golden-Silver age, but definitely as things headed towards the Bronze age the science started getting more realistic... I think that's definitely due to the fan base getting older, and to a smaller extent the larger pool of writers who were better educated. I think that is more a reflection of the influence of Julie Schwartz at DC (and Mort Weisinger, to a certain extent). Both were sci-fi fans, with more connection to hard science. Schwartz's writers tended to go more for actual science and fewer "super chemicals" and other pseudo-science. The 1940s use of magic and secret training in mystical lands is a byproduct of the pulps and the popularity of James Hilton's Lost Horizon. Both Weisinger and Schwartz were in SF fandom in the 30s and both acted as agents for SF writers before going to work for DC/National/etc. It was Schwartz who was actually able to place At the Mountains of Madness for Lovecraft when it was rejected by Weird Tales. |
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