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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 14:31:18 GMT -5
I did not read much of Marvel's 40's material. I have read much more of DC's stuff & the Fawcett Capt Marvel & Marvel Family stuff.
However I LOVED the Torch/Namor fights! I think DC had the first super team (JSA) & Marvel had the first super hero fight (Torch vs Namor).
Or am I wrong? Were there any other super hero conflicts in the 40's? |
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 30, 2014 22:44:03 GMT -5
This sounds right.
Timely product, mostly, wasn't up to DC's standards, IMO, in the Golden Age.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,456
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Post by shaxper on Aug 31, 2014 8:34:24 GMT -5
I always wonder whether anyone would care about the Atlas stuff if Marvel hadn't become the sensation it has since that time. Namor vs. the Torch was a big deal back in the day, but so was The Shield, and I don't see many folks discussing or collecting him today.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 31, 2014 9:02:49 GMT -5
Having read a bit of both as an adult, I think the Timely stuff was FAR better. The Torch-Namor fights, and the Namor book in general was far superior art wise to the early Superman stuff, for sure. Other Golden Age DC was even worse. I think I'd even rank the Angel above Superman with the foresight of history.
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 31, 2014 19:37:37 GMT -5
The first 10 issues of Captain America, by Simon & Kirby, are good.
Bill Everett's Sub-mariner, what little I've read, looks good.
After that, not so great.
DC has lots of good stuff IMO from the Trinity each with 2 titles, All Star Comics with the JSA, Flash Comics with Hawkman, and More Fun Comics with Dr Fate, the Spectre, and even Aquaman.
If one were to include DC's later acquisitions of Quality and Fawcett, that would raise the bar with the Marvel Family titles, Blackhawks, Uncle Sam, and Midnight.
The good Timely stuff is good, but not at the level of DC, from what I've read.
To be fair, I'd love to read more than the scant few stories of Carl Burgos' Human Torch, and DC had a superhero clunker in there from what I've read : Green Lantern. Schwartz's Silver Age reworking added the most to the character we know now.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 1, 2014 6:36:05 GMT -5
What always impressed me about Bill Everett is how much he improved as an artist from 1939 to the early 50's.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Sept 1, 2014 13:21:59 GMT -5
It's important to remember that many of Timely's key players were engaged in military service during the war years. These included Bill Everett, Carl Burgos, Paul Gustavson, and Stan Lee. In the interim, Vince Fago, Timely's funny animal guy oversaw the line. During this time, the heroes remain in a sort of static state, endlessly battling Nazis and "Japs."
There is a noticeable upswing in the quality of stories and art in the immediate post-war era as these folks returned to the fold. There is also a concerted effort to shake things up, expand the line into other genres, and create material that would be appealing to girls. I find the '46-'49 period of Timely to be the most interesting and, if not the most sophisticated, then perhaps the most like what we've come to think of as modern comics. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 1, 2014 14:50:54 GMT -5
I've got to agree with Hondobrode.Besides Everett's work on Sub-Mariner and the first 10 issues of Captain America, Timely's output was way behind DC in quality. The Schomberg covers are great and yes Timely has that manic quality on its early stuff but nothing else can close to Batman or Superman or The JSA. Even Wonder Woman was much more entertaining. And of course, Simon and Kirby were now working for DC. I'd even rank Timely behind Fawcette with Captain Marvel,Quality and Lev Gleason
Even after the war those publishers were better than Timely. I'd even add Dell and obviouly EC better as well.Timely was known as the publisher that would look at what was selling and make 20 copies of that idea. They were followers,not leaders of the industry |
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Post by hondobrode on Sept 1, 2014 19:57:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah, gotta second those gorgeous Schomberg covers.
I love the idea of the original Human Torch.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Sept 1, 2014 21:02:29 GMT -5
I've got to agree with Hondobrode.Besides Everett's work on Sub-Mariner and the first 10 issues of Captain America, Timely's output was way behind DC in quality. The Schomberg covers are great and yes Timely has that manic quality on its early stuff but nothing else can close to Batman or Superman or The JSA. Even Wonder Woman was much more entertaining. And of course, Simon and Kirby were now working for DC. I'd even rank Timely behind Fawcette with Captain Marvel,Quality and Lev Gleason
Even after the war those publishers were better than Timely. I'd even add Dell and obviouly EC better as well.Timely was known as the publisher that would look at what was selling and make 20 copies of that idea. They were followers,not leaders of the industry Sure, compared to the output of the publishers you named, Timely looks like an also-ran. No argument there. National and Fawcett were much bigger operations and Quality had a ton of material from the Eisner/Iger shop that was top-notch.
To nitpick your post (which I apologize for), EC doesn't really come into its own until 1951, and as for the bit I highlighted, it's true but you can lay that solidly at the feet of Martin Goodman, who never met a trend he didn't like.
As a result of Goodman's "follower" mentality, Timely made very early entrees in several genres, including Horror, Western, Teen Humor, Crime, and War, some of which were (accidentally[?]) significant and even seminal. It was a policy of "throw everything at the wall and some of it will stick." Outside of Gleason and Victor Fox, Timely/Atlas was producing some of the most wild and imaginative comic book material available on newsstands in the aftermath of WWII.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 23:27:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure I was aware Timely did anything but super heroes. I guess I had only seen the Captain America and Submariner covers. I was interested in checking the publisher out, but reprint material didn't seem common and I was told it wasn't great stuff anyway.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 2, 2014 7:48:00 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite covers of ANY era:  |
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Post by gothos on Sept 2, 2014 14:03:49 GMT -5
I will merely point out that Golden Age DC never gave us "the Armless Tiger-Man!"
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 2, 2014 14:37:07 GMT -5
I will merely point out that Golden Age DC never gave us "the Armless Tiger-Man!" Good point!
Did Armless Tiger Man ever appear again after that epic battle with the Angel in Marvel Mystery?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 15:26:17 GMT -5
According to ComicbookDB he's appeared in
Black Panther/Captain America: Flags Of Our Fathers (2010)
#3
#4
Incredible Hercules (2008)
#129 - 'The Descent'
#130 - 'The Judgment'
#131 - 'The Harrowing'
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