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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 2, 2017 5:28:44 GMT -5
There's a discussion going on in another thread about John Byrne and someone opined that George Perez was more popular/important in the era of the late 70's- 90's. I figure we can have a separate thread to compare the two's achievements. Feel free to add their post 90's work , as well.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 2, 2017 7:20:58 GMT -5
If we're only talking about art, I'd go with Perez, but once you say creator, then Byrne's co-plotting with the X-Men, plus the important writing he's done with the Fantastic Four and Superman come into play, and I think I'm too confused to vote. If I'm being honest, it's probably Byrne do to the "extra credit" for his writing, but I just don't think I can vote against my favorite artist George Perez.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 7:34:51 GMT -5
Like dbutler69 ... I just can't vote because they are truly legendary in their own rights and because of these two artists it is even harder than to compare who is the top artists in the 80's and 90's. I loved them both dearly based on their merits alone. It is harder than trying to compare apples versus oranges and that's makes them equally great.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 2, 2017 7:37:02 GMT -5
Even if, at their best, they were equals in art (which they are not), Perez is more consistent and (far more importantly) he works well with writers and editors.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 2, 2017 7:41:59 GMT -5
Voting Perez as there was so much of his art on various series to see his growth and learning over time in the comics. Also Perez early art just says 1970/1980's to me. Byrne was the more accomplished artist at the time and his stuff conveyed action and "reality" very well but Perez gets the win because his heroes and villains "posed" much more often and seemed to be more comic book stylized. Plus Perez has always remained down to earth and approachable while Byrne bought into his fame allowing his ego to subvert the pleasure and enjoyment of his artwork.
But both were the premiere artists of their time and worked well seeing them alternate many times on lots of comics...
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 2, 2017 8:08:48 GMT -5
When I posted best artist I meant top creator all around. They both co-plotted And wrote as well as, penciled.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 8:10:40 GMT -5
When I posted best artist I meant top creator all around. They both co-plotted And wrote as well as, penciled. I agree 100%
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 2, 2017 8:15:34 GMT -5
When I posted best artist I meant top creator all around. They both co-plotted And wrote as well as, penciled. If writing is in the equation, then I think we have to talk about this:
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Post by batusi on Aug 2, 2017 8:53:32 GMT -5
It is a tough decision, but...I will go with George Perez. Byrne & Perez were about tied for me during their FF & NTT runs, but in 1998 with the Avengers series run Perez clinched it for me. Perez was still at his peak in 1998 and Byrne was in decline IMO. So overall Perez is the better creator/artist for content and longevity.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 2, 2017 9:28:53 GMT -5
It's impossible to be objective in this, since about the only measure you can use that is remotely objective is sales figures. In that, Byrne probably has the edge, based on X-Men and Superman. I have no idea how well FF was selling, though I believe the Byrne issues were the highest sales the series had had in a long time. Avengers is harder to say. Perez worked on it during the Korvac Saga, which sold a lot of issues, while Byrne had the Wundagore storyline. Superman proved to be a really big deal and Byrne is all over that. Perez did great work; but didn't really reach superstar sales status until New Teen Titans. That was followed by Crisis, which did huge numbers.
I prefer Byrne's work up through Superman; and, then, after, I find him very hit and miss, both in writing and art. Perez is consistent, though I kind of thought he was getting a bit self-indulgent in some of his projects, trying to cram in things for the sake of seeing if he could do it, rather than in service to the story. Perez was better on team books, from my perspective, though it's still a close call. Byrne did individuals better, in my opinion, and worked better with a smaller cast. Really, their careers are very similar for a long time. Both did a lot of team-up stories, team books, secondary titles and features, before building their names on a team book that was more of a family. Byrne was the superstar earlier, with X-Men, though Perez didn't lag that far behind, with New Teen Titans. With Byrne peaking earlier, I also think he burnt out sooner, which is part of why Perez is more consistent.
I would say going into the 80s it was Byrne; but, coming out of it was Perez. By the mid-90s, though, both were in a lower profile, picking and choosing their assignments, writing more for others.
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 2, 2017 9:36:24 GMT -5
I voted Byrne.
Personality-wise it would be Perez by a landslide, but Byrne did more than Perez IMO.
Art-wise it would be very close. I really love both of their styles.
For me, it comes down to writing stories, which Byrne has done much more of than Perez.
Also, FWIW, Byrne was the first one that popped into my mind.
If we looked past the 90's, Perez would win this as Byrne's output has been miniscule compared to Perez's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 9:44:44 GMT -5
In the 80s, when MArvle and DC wanted to create the biggest comic project ever using their flagship properties in the JLA/Avengers cross-over, it was Perez they turned to, not Byrne to do the job because that's what fans at the time wanted to see and who creators and editors wanted to work with. Now the project didn't happen because Shooter couldn't play nice and it took almost 20 years and a couple of regime changes for a JLA/Avengers to happen with Perez still attached to it, and the biggest impetus behind it was that people wanted to see what Perez could do with it.
By the late 90s when Marvel desperately needed to revitalize their main line of books after Heroes Reborn they first went and got Perez to do Avengers and found a writer later to work with him (it was supposed to be Englehart but that didn't work out and it became Busiek). they didn't turn to Byrne because his attempts to revitalize Marvel characters (like Spider-Man) had been disastrous.
In the 70s and 80s, the two essentially went tit for tat with their accomplishments and renown, with a slight edge to Byrne, but by the time you move into the late 80s and 90s, Byrne's rep and successes were already falling off while Perez's was still growing and he was still getting prestigious projects because he was still delivering and Byrne was disappointing. It's a close race, but it we take their entire ouevre from the 70s to the 90s as the op outlines, then I think the edge goes to Perez.
-M
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 2, 2017 10:12:04 GMT -5
I can only mention what was posted in the Just Saying thread about Perez and Byrne, that the latter's earlier work (which brought him to any sort of prominence) was only successful thanks to the more-than-shaping inks of Terry Austin. Moreover, by the start of the 80's, George Perez (who--in the 1970s--had already dazzled comic fans on The Avengers and the film adaptation of Logan's Run) had made an earth-shaking splash (and slight streamlining of his style) with DC's The New Teen Titans.
Perez not only mastered the superhero style in a dramatic, plus wildly detail-oriented manner not seen since Neal Adams and Jim Aparo's heydays, but was one of the few artists capable of illustrating any character--an extremely rare talent in the annals of comic history. For example, Byrne (like Kirby) could not illustrate an acceptable Batman or Spider-Man if his life depended on it, but Perez had no trouble understanding the characters, and how to (if necessary) run with the traditions of the characters' best artists before him.
I remember the 80s well, and Perez--moving from The New Teen Titans (and gracing other titles), to one of the few truly grand comic events of the remainder of the century (Crisis on Infinite Earths) put most of the superhero-illustrating end of the industry on notice in the sense that one could always reach new heights. Byrne did not break similar ground, with his work (particularly post-Austin) just reduced to more of the same, not very self aware "Byrne-isms" that also plagued Kirby during the latter's last stint at Marvel.
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Post by String on Aug 2, 2017 11:47:07 GMT -5
Wow, tough tough question.
My first instinct would be for Bryne. Growing up, his output is nigh synonymous with the 80s, from UXM to FF to Avengers to Alpha Flight (!). Later his work on the Legends mini-series followed by his relaunch of Superman was incredible. He has one of the most distinctive art styles in the history of the medium which is instantly recognizable and enjoyable.
But if we're discussing over the long haul, then I have to go with Perez. Along with various assignments for both companies over the years, I think his work on NTT carries more depth and quality overall in terms of characterization and story, his 90s run on Avengers restored some of classic feel of the team and characters, and finally he came fully into his own as a writer handling the relaunch of Wonder Woman which still rates as one of the best, if not THE best, interpretations of the character.
More simply, art-wise, both are classic and unique and genre-defining and it's really hard to favor one over the other. As for writing, I think overall Perez is better and more consistent.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 2, 2017 11:51:31 GMT -5
Perez not only mastered the superhero style in a dramatic, plus wildly detail-oriented manner not seen since Neal Adams and Jim Aparo's heydays, but was one of the few artists capable of illustrating any character--an extremely rare talent in the annals of comic history. For example, Byrne (like Kirby) could not illustrate an acceptable Batman or Spider-Man if his life depended on it, but Perez had no trouble understanding the characters, and how to (if necessary) run with the traditions of the characters' best artists before him. I liked Byrne's Batman and Spider-man just fine, personally. In fact, I loved Byrne's Spidey in Marvel team-up and the first issue of Untold legend of the Batman looked very good. I agree with you that being able to draw any character is a gift shared by very few artists, but in my opinion Byrne was one of those few... and in fact one of the most proficient in that regard.
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