shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 8, 2017 22:13:56 GMT -5
Looking at the various things listed by myself and others, the big difference that strikes me is that I find Perez's later stuff, especially from the late 90s to the present time, is still first rate, though I didn't pick anything from it myself, so far. But I can't imnagine myself listing anything from Byrne after around 1982 or so - I know a lot of people would disagree, of course, but that's the big difference between the two for me. I REALLY wanted to like Nextmen... |
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Post by berkley on Aug 8, 2017 22:22:44 GMT -5
Actually, if I was going to add anything form Byrne it might be his solo SF series he did in the early 70s at Charleton, I think it was? I like what I've seen but haven't read enough to claim it as qa persoanl favourite.
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Post by DubipR on Aug 8, 2017 22:37:36 GMT -5
Bryne (in no order)
1. Fantastic Four
2. Stern's Captain America run
3. She-Hulk
4. Superman/Batman: Generations
Perez (in no order)
1. Teen Titans (80s)
2. Avengers (with Busiek)
3. Crisis on Infinite Earths
4. Wonder Woman
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Post by berkley on Aug 8, 2017 23:22:22 GMT -5
Does no one else find Perez's artwork changed significantly in the 80s? Of course, his backgrounds steadily became more and more detailed (which I liked) but I think his figures became much more thin and articulated, a change I've always found aesthetically disagreeable. Then, I think around the the late 90s, they became fuller and rounder again, while still retaining the greater detail.
WHatever it was, I put some of his most popular stuff, like the Titans and WW, at them bottom of my personal rankings of Perez's work. I still like it - or what I've seen (haven't read WW yet) - but not nearly as much as his later and especially his earlier stuff.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 9, 2017 0:59:07 GMT -5
Tough call....
Byrne:
Rog 2000
X-Men
Fantastic Four
Man of Steel and the first year of Superman
Captain America
Avengers-the Wundagore storyline
Torch of Liberty
Perez:
Creatures on the Loose 33-37, Marvel Premiere #45-46...Man-Wolf
Avengers-Squadron Supreme storyline and the early Korvac Saga
Fantastic Four-especially #176, when the Impossible Man storms through the Marvel offices.
New Teen Titans
Crisis on Infinite Earths-so much going on and he kept it coherent and exciting
Wonder Woman-first time it had been interesting in years, probably the best since the Golden Age
Wally Wood's THUNDER Agents-Perez did a couple of Raven stories, with the dancer Phoenicia, based on his wife. Also did a couple of awesome covers
I liked Next Men to a point; but, never felt it really came together. Danger Unlimited was the FF, in drag. Torch of Liberty was the same, for Cap; but, at least it was fun. For all of his criticisms of the Image guys regurgitating their Marvel stuff, he was pretty much doing the same thing, at Dark Horse.
With Perez, I liked Sachs and Violens, to a point; but, never felt the story was that great. It wants to dabble in sex; but, Peter David seems incapable of writing that, even though Perez threw plenty of stuff into the art. Given he has directed some superheroine fight fetish videos, I think he should have tried that project solo (or teamed up with Howard Chaykin). I did like how he slipped in a portrait of Franco Saudelli's The Blonde, as well a references to fetish models Betty Page and Darla Crane (and Betty and Veronica).
Perez also produced some truly great covers, for a lot of things that fell way under most peoples radar (like The Dark, from Continuum)
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 9, 2017 5:22:08 GMT -5
echoing what others have said but adding Byrne's Iron Fist run.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 9, 2017 5:35:16 GMT -5
I haven't read any Byrne solo stuff I've actually respected. Granted, his Fantastic Four run is still on my To Read list. Wow, by the phrasing of your sentence if feels like you have him on par with Todd Mcfarlane. You haven't respected anything he's done alone ? |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 9, 2017 5:55:30 GMT -5
ouch.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 9, 2017 6:22:18 GMT -5
just have to add Perez's work around 2000 or so on the Avengers, some of his finest, and unlike Byrne, he'd improved his game after 20 years, vs becoming a 'caricature of his old self'. which to be fair i think Byrne did no earlier than 2004.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 9, 2017 6:30:59 GMT -5
just have to add Perez's work around 2000 or so on the Avengers, some of his finest, and unlike Byrne, he'd improved his game after 20 years, vs becoming a 'caricature of his old self'. which to be fair i think Byrne did no earlier than 2004. I can't dispute this statement. He became more cartoony and the figures have less weight to them. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 9, 2017 6:33:14 GMT -5
Byrne:
1. X-Men with Chris Claremont
2. Captain America w/ Roger Stern
3. Marvel Team-Up w/ Claremont again
Perez:
1. Avengers w/ Kurt Busiek (including JLA/Avengers
2. Wonder Woman (my favorite take on this character ever)
3. TIE: New Teen Titans w/ Marv Wolfman and The Brave and the Bold w/ Mark Waid
Cei-U!
I summon the favorites!
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 9, 2017 6:39:11 GMT -5
just have to add Perez's work around 2000 or so on the Avengers, some of his finest, and unlike Byrne, he'd improved his game after 20 years, vs becoming a 'caricature of his old self'. which to be fair i think Byrne did no earlier than 2004. I can't dispute this statement. He became more cartoony and the figures have less weight to them. also, to be fair to him, he's been stubborn about inking himself since at least 15 years ago, and since 2000 or so, for his pencils, 'not the best idea'. meanwhile, Hunt, 1 of Byrne's best inkers, is a mindblowing hyper-realist oil painter now. check out his stuff on his fb page! you'll plotz!! |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 9, 2017 7:29:02 GMT -5
I haven't read any Byrne solo stuff I've actually respected. Granted, his Fantastic Four run is still on my To Read list. You haven't respected anything he's done alone ? Nothing that I've read of his, no. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 9, 2017 7:37:29 GMT -5
I can't dispute this statement. He became more cartoony and the figures have less weight to them. also, to be fair to him, he's been stubborn about inking himself since at least 15 years ago, and since 2000 or so, for his pencils, 'not the best idea'. meanwhile, Hunt, 1 of Byrne's best inkers, is a mindblowing hyper-realist oil painter now. check out his stuff on his fb page! you'll plotz!! FYI, Dave Hunt passed away back in March. Cei-U! I summon the sad news! |
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Post by brutalis on Aug 9, 2017 7:41:42 GMT -5
Byrne:
1. X-Men
2. Iron Fist
3. Marvel Team Up
Perez:
1. Avengers:1st go round
2. Teen Titans
3. Crisis on Infinite Earths
Of course there is so much other stuff to commend for both artists.
Byrne's FF run, Batman/Captain America, Last Galactus Story, Man of Steel, Avengers, Captain America.
Perez's Legion of 3 Worlds, Wonder Woman, Fantastic Four, Justice League, Sachs and Violens, Busiek's Avengers, Sons of the Tiger/White Tiger, Marvel Two in One.
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