Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222 
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Post by Confessor on Sept 4, 2017 1:45:09 GMT -5
There aren't many things about comic books that I can say I actually "hate"...although I have a few things that I dislike or that really annoy me.
However, one thing I do feel very, very strongly about is the erasing of the marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson at the hands of Mephisto in the One More Day/Brand New Day clusterf**k. Along with the attendant resetting of Spider-Man's continuity and the character regression that resulted among Spidey's supporting cast, I can say without reservation that I "hate" that because it basically rendered my favourite superhero character of all-time unreadable to me. ...and that's not something I can easily forgive, Mr. Joe Quesada.
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 4, 2017 6:56:32 GMT -5
I am in complete agreement Confessor. That absolutely ruined Spider-Man.
Thankfully I did not stick around for Doc Ock to take over his body.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 4, 2017 9:40:15 GMT -5
I'll repeat the same thing I write every time one of these type of threads/questions come up: I hate Rick Jones. He's a useless pile of garbage who has infected nearly every corner of the MU at one point in time or another with his inanity. Bruce Banner should have let the little twerp get atomized, and while that would have deprived the world of the Hulk, it would also have prevented this crapweasel from being foisted upon us. Wow. Until now, I never knew anyone who hated Rick Jones. Just wait until my reviews of Captain America where Rick becomes the new Bucky...  My problem with Rick Jones is that he's always written as a lucksack. He has no real talent other than being in the right place at the right time, and all of his successes seem to be in spite of himself, not because of anything he's intentionally done. He's a bumbler and a stumbler, the type of guy that falls in a septic tank and finds Grandma's antique 3-carat diamond engagement ring that's been lost for 50 years. I really hated the "Rick as budding rock star" storyline in Captain Marvel, because it took focus off of the main character for a ludicrous sidekick storyline. My theory on this is that Roy Thomas was writing Rick as a parallel to Stan Lee, in that Stan's fame was tied to superheroes (as Rick was tied to Mar-Vell), but that Stan really wanted to be known by society at large for something cooler. Nothing to back that up, but it seems plausible to me. |
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Post by DubipR on Sept 4, 2017 10:03:04 GMT -5
I absolutely hate... 2. Wasp (Janet van Dyne) We shall have words, good sir. Dueling pistols at dawn. What don't you like about my beloved Janet? |
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Post by DubipR on Sept 4, 2017 10:15:01 GMT -5
I hate:
1. Scott Snyder's run on Batman (with the exception of Black Mirror). Complete and utter GARBAGE
2. Geoff's Johns retro con fitting to make Silver Age and Golden Age characters fit his stories that already had deep established roots
3. Retrofitting legacy characters to make them the old same dull standard boring characters (Bart Allen is the prime example)
4. Cheapening/Tarting up lady costumes
5. Most X-characters
6. Jim Lee
7. Crossovers (there's like 3 that don't suck)
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 4, 2017 11:00:13 GMT -5
Wow. Until now, I never knew anyone who hated Rick Jones. Just wait until my reviews of Captain America where Rick becomes the new Bucky... My problem with Rick Jones is that he's always written as a lucksack. He has no real talent other than being in the right place at the right time, and all of his successes seem to be in spite of himself, not because of anything he's intentionally done. He's a bumbler and a stumbler, the type of guy that falls in a septic tank and finds Grandma's antique 3-carat diamond engagement ring that's been lost for 50 years. I really hated the "Rick as budding rock star" storyline in Captain Marvel, because it took focus off of the main character for a ludicrous sidekick storyline. My theory on this is that Roy Thomas was writing Rick as a parallel to Stan Lee, in that Stan's fame was tied to superheroes (as Rick was tied to Mar-Vell), but that Stan really wanted to be known by society at large for something cooler. Nothing to back that up, but it seems plausible to me. Im 100% with the Captain on Rick Jones. The only reason I ever read anything he's in is because Jim Starlin on Captain Marvel and Peter David actually taking him out of Hulk for a bit as the other Hulk so the reader didn't have to listen to his constant whining. Though he's far worse in Capt Marvel. Hate is such a strong word and I found no one mentioned in this thread that brings the emotion except for Jones. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 4, 2017 11:18:08 GMT -5
I flat out hated Knightfall. Too much of it required Batman and others to be complete morons. Batman getting hit from all sides by a directed chaos is one thing; Batman never calling for help or others intervening without invitation made no sense. The novelization fixed one of my pet peeves, with Gordon, when tells Robin that he knows that Azrael is the new Batman, not the original. In the comic, he's clueless. So Gordon doesn't recognize a different voice? Some detective! Any story that requires intelligent characters to become dumber than Homer Simpson should be torn up, in my opinion. Identity Crisis fits into that.
I hate that story with a burning passion of a thousand suns. One, it sacrifices a darn good character to set off a violent and unsatisfying story. As a mystery, it's pretty weak. It also has characters acting so far out of the norm as to be insulting and cherry picking moments, taken out of context, to justify things was even more insulting. Civil War was the same way. The murder of Sue Dibny just to act as a spark to the story was pointless; the retro-rape of the character was reprehensible. It caused me to sever ties with DC and most modern comics from DC and Marvel. Both companies went out of their way to destroy happy couples, because they didn't think readers responded to them. If the romance was popular enough to bring the characters together, why would marriage destroy that? Just more cynical bad writing from mediocre writers and editors who never created anything of their own; just picked over the carcass of Kirby and others.
Getting down to it, what I truly hate is the dumbing down of and transformation of heroes into more violent and amoral psychopaths. It's like writers were afraid of a virtuous hero, because they exposed the writer's own moral shortcomings. You can present a moral person who has problems (Spider-Man and the better Superman tales). Not everyone needs to be the Punisher and Batman shouldn't read like a script for a Death Wish movie.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222
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Post by Confessor on Sept 4, 2017 14:55:50 GMT -5
I am in complete agreement Confessor. That absolutely ruined Spider-Man. Thankfully I did not stick around for Doc Ock to take over his body. Unfortunately, I did, but, actually, the period where Doc Ock took over Peter's body probably produced the best post-OMD issues of all. Which only goes to show you just how sc**wed Spider-Man is these days. It's saying something when reading about Doctor Octopus inhabiting the body of Peter Parker is more interesting that reading about the real Spider-Man. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Sept 4, 2017 16:25:46 GMT -5
I am in complete agreement Confessor. That absolutely ruined Spider-Man. Thankfully I did not stick around for Doc Ock to take over his body. There are people that actually like the whole Doc Ock storyline. I have not read it, but to me it sounds silly. Doc Ock should not want to try and prove he can be a better hero than Spidey/Peter....he should want to try and kill Spidey/Peter. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Sept 4, 2017 16:31:15 GMT -5
I hate: 1. Scott Snyder's run on Batman (with the exception of Black Mirror). Complete and utter GARBAGE 2. Geoff's Johns retro con fitting to make Silver Age and Golden Age characters fit his stories that already had deep established roots 3. Retrofitting legacy characters to make them the old same dull standard boring characters (Bart Allen is the prime example) 4. Cheapening/Tarting up lady costumes 5. Most X-characters 6. Jim Lee 7. Crossovers (there's like 3 that don't suck) By crossovers, do you mean company or character? I always liked a good crossover story, especially if it was one that pitted a hero against another. Like this
Or one that had a hero meeting another, fighting at first but then coming together to stop some silly villain in good ole 70's fashion, like this:
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Post by berkley on Sept 4, 2017 16:37:41 GMT -5
I absolutely hate people writing the New Gods or the Eternals without any understanding of the ideas underlying the originals - often, I suspect, without even having read them.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 4, 2017 16:45:09 GMT -5
Wow. Until now, I never knew anyone who hated Rick Jones. Just wait until my reviews of Captain America where Rick becomes the new Bucky... My problem with Rick Jones is that he's always written as a lucksack. He has no real talent other than being in the right place at the right time, and all of his successes seem to be in spite of himself, not because of anything he's intentionally done. He's a bumbler and a stumbler, the type of guy that falls in a septic tank and finds Grandma's antique 3-carat diamond engagement ring that's been lost for 50 years. I really hated the "Rick as budding rock star" storyline in Captain Marvel, because it took focus off of the main character for a ludicrous sidekick storyline. My theory on this is that Roy Thomas was writing Rick as a parallel to Stan Lee, in that Stan's fame was tied to superheroes (as Rick was tied to Mar-Vell), but that Stan really wanted to be known by society at large for something cooler. Nothing to back that up, but it seems plausible to me. I never heard of such a theory, but it makes perfect sense! I'd be really interested in hearing what Roy has to say about that. It sure would have been more subtle than Funky Flashman! |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 4, 2017 16:59:46 GMT -5
I flat out hated Knightfall. Too much of it required Batman and others to be complete morons. Batman getting hit from all sides by a directed chaos is one thing; Batman never calling for help or others intervening without invitation made no sense. The novelization fixed one of my pet peeves, with Gordon, when tells Robin that he knows that Azrael is the new Batman, not the original. In the comic, he's clueless. So Gordon doesn't recognize a different voice? Some detective! Any story that requires intelligent characters to become dumber than Homer Simpson should be torn up, in my opinion. Identity Crisis fits into that. I hate that story with a burning passion of a thousand suns. One, it sacrifices a darn good character to set off a violent and unsatisfying story. As a mystery, it's pretty weak. It also has characters acting so far out of the norm as to be insulting and cherry picking moments, taken out of context, to justify things was even more insulting. Civil War was the same way. The murder of Sue Dibny just to act as a spark to the story was pointless; the retro-rape of the character was reprehensible. It caused me to sever ties with DC and most modern comics from DC and Marvel. Both companies went out of their way to destroy happy couples, because they didn't think readers responded to them. If the romance was popular enough to bring the characters together, why would marriage destroy that? Just more cynical bad writing from mediocre writers and editors who never created anything of their own; just picked over the carcass of Kirby and others. Getting down to it, what I truly hate is the dumbing down of and transformation of heroes into more violent and amoral psychopaths. It's like writers were afraid of a virtuous hero, because they exposed the writer's own moral shortcomings. You can present a moral person who has problems (Spider-Man and the better Superman tales). Not everyone needs to be the Punisher and Batman shouldn't read like a script for a Death Wish movie. I've never read all of Knightfall, but the main problem I had with it is that it was basically a direct response to the success of the Death of Superman story-line. "Hey kids, if you loved when we killed Superman, you'll really love when we maim the Bat!" So cynical and pandering. I realize that their job was to sell comics, but the early 90's really were shameless. I agree with your points about creators and their cynical bad writing from the 90's till now. It's kind of amusing when you see these modern creators and they all seem to be your typical affable, sedentary, friendly geek-nerd types (like most of us I'd wager) yet the guys who actually had to fight in WWII, had to start working at the age of 10, etc, (like Kirby, Ditko, Lee and so on) seemed to always have a more idealistic take on heroes. I guess when you've experienced real horror and hardship you want to go in the opposite direction thematically. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 4, 2017 17:38:46 GMT -5
I flat out hated Knightfall. Too much of it required Batman and others to be complete morons. Batman getting hit from all sides by a directed chaos is one thing; Batman never calling for help or others intervening without invitation made no sense. The novelization fixed one of my pet peeves, with Gordon, when tells Robin that he knows that Azrael is the new Batman, not the original. In the comic, he's clueless. So Gordon doesn't recognize a different voice? Some detective! Any story that requires intelligent characters to become dumber than Homer Simpson should be torn up, in my opinion. Identity Crisis fits into that. I hate that story with a burning passion of a thousand suns. One, it sacrifices a darn good character to set off a violent and unsatisfying story. As a mystery, it's pretty weak. It also has characters acting so far out of the norm as to be insulting and cherry picking moments, taken out of context, to justify things was even more insulting. Civil War was the same way. The murder of Sue Dibny just to act as a spark to the story was pointless; the retro-rape of the character was reprehensible. It caused me to sever ties with DC and most modern comics from DC and Marvel. Both companies went out of their way to destroy happy couples, because they didn't think readers responded to them. If the romance was popular enough to bring the characters together, why would marriage destroy that? Just more cynical bad writing from mediocre writers and editors who never created anything of their own; just picked over the carcass of Kirby and others. Getting down to it, what I truly hate is the dumbing down of and transformation of heroes into more violent and amoral psychopaths. It's like writers were afraid of a virtuous hero, because they exposed the writer's own moral shortcomings. You can present a moral person who has problems (Spider-Man and the better Superman tales). Not everyone needs to be the Punisher and Batman shouldn't read like a script for a Death Wish movie. I've never read all of Knightfall, but the main problem I had with it is that it was basically a direct response to the success of the Death of Superman story-line. "Hey kids, if you loved when we killed Superman, you'll really love when we maim the Bat!" So cynical and pandering. I realize that their job was to sell comics, but the early 90's really were shameless. I agree with your points about creators and their cynical bad writing from the 90's till now. It's kind of amusing when you see these modern creators and they all seem to be your typical affable, sedentary, friendly geek-nerd types (like most of us I'd wager) yet the guys who actually had to fight in WWII, had to start working at the age of 10, etc, (like Kirby, Ditko, Lee and so on) seemed to always have a more idealistic take on heroes. I guess when you've experienced real horror and hardship you want to go in the opposite direction thematically. I'd go further and say the past creators spent more time experiencing life and it filtered more into their comics, vs more modern ones living in fantasy worlds that consisted of action movies and superhero fights, leaving them with little knowledge of the human condition. They also grew up in a society that seemed to spend more time tearing down heroes than building them up. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 4, 2017 17:41:23 GMT -5
I hate Neal Adams writing his own books.
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