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Post by james on Sept 12, 2017 3:47:54 GMT -5
Daredevil 1- 181 Teen Titans ( Wolfman/Perez) 1-50 Iron Man 100-132. hulk 180- 300
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 5:12:58 GMT -5
This topic never, ever bothered me one bit because I was picky on the stories that I want to read and never, ever cared about the start/stop and/or runs gets to me. It's not an issue to me.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 12, 2017 5:25:54 GMT -5
I would make it 1-300. Nothing to see after that. What happened after #300? I'm pretty hazy on the Avengers and Marvel in general after the late-70s to early-80s. The Avengers, I stopped reading after the Korvac story, but I've decided to pick up the later Perez and Byrne issues just because I like the artwork and I've been convinced by the talk here on Classics to give the Stern run a try - at least the Buscema/Palmer art, though not up to the level of their earlier stuff from the 60s, still looks good even if I end up not caring for the writing (no reflection on Roger Stern, BTW, just a general feeling of suspicion when it comes to 80s Marvel & beyond). That reminds me - to answer the thread question, it isn't always easy to draw a sharp line: in one sense, the Avengers stopped being classic for me after the Englehart run, but in another sense it extends to the middle of the Korvac saga if only for the Perez artwork, still my favourite of everything he's done. Although, in fairness, I must acknowledge that back in the day I would have had a more definite cut-off - the end of the complete Korvac story - but Shooter's writing has come down pretty drastically in my estimation since then. Of course the Busiek/Perez run was solid , but I'm thinking the first volume is the original classic run.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 12, 2017 5:40:59 GMT -5
I was thinking 1-300 but i think there's a 54 issue gap until anything of substance really happens. Then 254 to 274 you have the return of Stern, Buscema and the Masters of Evil. Then the last 26 are lackluster. And it just so happens my run ends at 300 because i can't think of anything hapening of note. I pretty much thought the same but the reason I include it until 300, is that was Buscema's last issue.But #'s 286-290 had a decent story where all the androids are united by a sentient fragment of the cosmic cube. 291-297 had the first Avengers dissembled story where Nebula manipulates Dr. Druid into assuming command of the team to destroy it from within. That wasn't a bad arc either. 298-300 has the Captain ( Captain America had been stripped of his name in his own book) helping out Reed Richards and Sue retrieve their son from the events of the Inferno storyline and eventually creating a new Avengers team in #300.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 12, 2017 5:47:35 GMT -5
New Teen Titans (1980) #1-50, v2 (1984) #1-5 (probably the last of the really great classic runs!) Totally agree. I might go as far as to leave out the 1984 arc #1-5 because if was an ,out of the blue ,recycling of a Trigon attacks the Titans story which added nothing to their legend.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 12, 2017 7:09:14 GMT -5
Incredible Hulk #179-300.
This is a tough one because having read the series all the way to the end of the Peter David run, I do like post-#300 Incredible Hulk a lot (the Crossroads saga, the six Byrne issues, Mr. Fixit era, Professor Hulk/Pantheon etc.) but it never again returned to the "classic" Hulk that took off thematically when Len Wein started writing the book in 1974.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 12, 2017 14:10:59 GMT -5
I would make it 1-300. Nothing to see after that. Yeah, I agree with that. I also agree with #1-175 (or maybe 94-175) for the X-Men.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 14:27:45 GMT -5
Avengers 16-177-The Marvel JLA phase never really gelled for me and the Avengers didn't take on its own unique identity until the Kooky Quartet era, and the end of the Korvac Saga was followed by a handful of fill ins then the government now regulates the Avengers era starting with 181 which is where I feel the series ceased to be the de facto espirit of Marvel book where all the big stuff happened and became just another super-hero team book. It was still good, but it was no longer the place where Marvel stuff went down. The best of the stuff after that managed to be really good super-hero team stuff, but it felt a bit interchangeable, with any other super-hero team being able to take the place of the Avengers and the story would still work just as it was presented, and it never rose to the level fo this is great Avengers stuff. The Mansion Siege came close, but that's a story I like less every time I read it unlike what I call the classic period that I can reread with the same enjoyment level as I ever have.
FF-mid 30s when I felt it really hit its stride until Kirby left after which the book always felt like it was a pale imitation of what it was. Sometimes the imitation was good, but it was always a shadow of the classic era.
Thor has 2 classic eras for me, the first starts with Kirby's return to the book and the launch of Tales of Asgard as the back-up feature through Kirby's departure, and the second is the Simonson era starting with #337 and ending when Walt left.
Nick Fury/SHIELD Strange Tales 135-Nick Fury 7, fueled by Kirby and Steranko this was a series of big out there ideas until Steranko left, and then it was just pedestrian
-M
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Sept 12, 2017 14:31:29 GMT -5
I'm in the Avengers #1-285 camp. Stern was forced out midway through the next arc, so while it's still good, it's a little weird because it's only half his and then the second half is people spackling over the whole left by his departure. I'm not a big fan of the Simonson story from #291-297, or the Inferno thing in #298-300, and after that just... no.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 12, 2017 18:36:25 GMT -5
Avengers # 1. (Has the Hulk dressed as a clown pretending to be a robot juggling elephants.)
Avengers # 2 - current (Does not have the Hulk dressed as a clown pretending to be a robot juggling elephants/obviously not classic.)
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 12, 2017 19:45:45 GMT -5
Thor has 2 classic eras for me, the first starts with Kirby's return to the book and the launch of Tales of Asgard as the back-up feature through Kirby's departure, and the second is the Simonson era starting with #337 and ending when Walt left. Without question those are the two greatest eras of Thor, but I have a soft spot for the first half of the DeFalco/Frenz Thor run. I was never a big fan of the Eric Masterson era, but I REALLY liked The Black Galaxy Saga. Sure, they were basically doing a Lee/Kirby pastiche, but it was a darn good one. That said, Masterson was a regression from Lee/Kirby's eventual conclusion: Thor doesn't need an actual mortal identity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 19:54:46 GMT -5
Thor has 2 classic eras for me, the first starts with Kirby's return to the book and the launch of Tales of Asgard as the back-up feature through Kirby's departure, and the second is the Simonson era starting with #337 and ending when Walt left. Without question those are the two greatest eras of Thor, but I have a soft spot for the first half of the DeFalco/Frenz Thor run. I was never a big fan of the Eric Masterson era, but I REALLY liked The Black Galaxy Saga. Sure, they were basically doing a Lee/Kirby pastiche, but it was a darn good one. That said, Masterson was a regression from Lee/Kirby's eventual conclusion: Thor doesn't need an actual mortal identity. A good imitation of a classic is just that, an imitation, not a classic. It can still be entertaining and enjoyable, but something like that falls way short of my standard for a classic. I'd rather see creators emulate the creativity and vision of someone like Kirby than imitate the end result of what ended up on the page because of that vision and creativity. I'd rather read Kirby than a watered down imitation of Kirby any day of the week, no matter how good the imitation is. But that standard for me applies across the board, and stuff that may be "good" or "entertaining" comics are not classics to me if all they're doing is playing around in someone else's sandbox and coloring well within the lines without having any true vision or purpose but to be a shadow of what came before. -M
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Post by batusi on Sept 12, 2017 23:10:11 GMT -5
New Teen Titans (1980) #1-50, v2 (1984) #1-5 (probably the last of the really great classic runs!) Totally agree. I might go as far as to leave out the 1984 arc #1-5 because if was an ,out of the blue ,recycling of a Trigon attacks the Titans story which added nothing to their legend. I disagree because what happened in the 1980 series was building up to the battle with Trigon and Raven's demonic transformation. Raven was slowly changing in appearance and eventually leaving her hood on all the time when around the other Titans. If you leave out the last 5 issues you are not getting the complete story.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 13, 2017 0:12:10 GMT -5
Without question those are the two greatest eras of Thor, but I have a soft spot for the first half of the DeFalco/Frenz Thor run. I was never a big fan of the Eric Masterson era, but I REALLY liked The Black Galaxy Saga. Sure, they were basically doing a Lee/Kirby pastiche, but it was a darn good one. That said, Masterson was a regression from Lee/Kirby's eventual conclusion: Thor doesn't need an actual mortal identity. A good imitation of a classic is just that, an imitation, not a classic. It can still be entertaining and enjoyable, but something like that falls way short of my standard for a classic. I'd rather see creators emulate the creativity and vision of someone like Kirby than imitate the end result of what ended up on the page because of that vision and creativity. I'd rather read Kirby than a watered down imitation of Kirby any day of the week, no matter how good the imitation is. But that standard for me applies across the board, and stuff that may be "good" or "entertaining" comics are not classics to me if all they're doing is playing around in someone else's sandbox and coloring well within the lines without having any true vision or purpose but to be a shadow of what came before. -M I agree. I'd never rate it as a "classic" even though it's still probably the third best Thor run (I say this having never read the bulk of 70's Thor by the likes of Wein, etc.) I think there is a place for good "status quo" runs when it comes to mainstream comics, but it's certainly not something you'd want to see cemented for all eternity. Even Byrne's FF, which on the surface was a back-to-basics approach, soon branched out and expanded on the characters of Galactus, Doctor Doom, Invisible Woman, etc.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 13, 2017 4:42:32 GMT -5
Totally agree. I might go as far as to leave out the 1984 arc #1-5 because if was an ,out of the blue ,recycling of a Trigon attacks the Titans story which added nothing to their legend. I disagree because what happened in the 1980 series was building up to the battle with Trigon and Raven's demonic transformation. Raven was slowly changing in appearance and eventually leaving her hood on all the time when around the other Titans. If you leave out the last 5 issues you are not getting the complete story. Hmmm, I might have to revisit that run.
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