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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 23:07:13 GMT -5
Apparently Kirkman is doing a 6 part documentary on the history of comics as part of AMC Visonaries line of documentaries, and it is set to debut in November. Info about it can be found herefrom the article... I hadn't heard about this before, but now my curiosity is piqued. -M
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 23:10:31 GMT -5
Maybe we're getting one step closer to my dream TV show-Inside the Comic Book Studio-a series based on James Lipton Inside the Actor's Studio where some to be determined knowledgeable host sits down one-one one for in depth interviews with comic book creators about their process, technique, etc. It's too late to do it with some of the giants like Eisner, Kubert, Kirby, Wrightson, etc. but I'd love to see it done before all of those generations of creators are gone.
-M
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 22, 2017 2:01:16 GMT -5
I don't know; it sounds a lot like that PBS documentary, which was very focused on the characters through other media (film, tv serials, etc) rather than the actual comics. Have to say that a lot of these I have seen have been rather disappointing (like said PBS documentary). Most gloss over stuff beyond the typical Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and 60s Marvel. Steranko added a lot to the PBS one, though they mostly stuck with characters that had some other media presence. he talks about the Blue beetle being a Green Hornet rip-off and he is brought up because of the short-lived BB radio show. They ignore other Fox characters, like Phantom Lady, and almost entire companies, like Quality.
Jonathan Ross' piece on Steve Ditko was quite good, as he attempts to meet with him (he does, off camera). The Masters of Comic Art, hosted by Harlan Ellison, has moments; but, varies greatly between the people interviewed. Comic Book Confidential is a good oral history of the Undergrounds and those that inspired them; but not comics, as a whole.
The best documentary I ever saw about comics was The History of the Comics, the 9th Art. It was released by White Star Video, in the US, in the early 90s, on VHS. It appears to have been done in Spain or with Spanish tv contribution, though it covers comic books and comic strips from the Victorian period up to the dawn of the 90s. Lots of creators are interviewed, as well as comic historians, like Maurice Horn (France) and Denis Gifford (UK). They talk to Kirby, Kurtzman, Eisner, Moore, Corben, Chaykin, Charles Schulz, Quino, Druillet, Moebius, Tezuka, Kojima, Liberatore, the editor (then) of Heavy Metal, Burne Hogarth, Mort Walker, and several others.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 11:57:00 GMT -5
AMC has announced that AMC Visionaries: Robert Kirkman’s Secret History of Comics will premiere as a two-night event starting on Sunday, November 12 at 11/10c, followed by a second episode on Monday, November 13 at 10/9c, in the show’s regular time slot. Web SiteThe six-part, one-hour documentary series takes a deeper look into the stories, people and events that have transformed the world of comic books and features interviews with icons such as Stan Lee, Patty Jenkins, Lynda Carter, Kevin Smith, Famke Janssen, J.K. Simmons, Michelle Rodriguez, and Todd McFarlane, among many others. Stan Lee will appear.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 5, 2017 21:53:19 GMT -5
There is another thread about the subject; but, that line-up confirms my misgivings voiced in the other thread; that it is through the lens of other media (meaning Hollywood). That was what devalued the one that PBS did a few years back, with Joe Simon and Steranko. As much as they added some interesting history (especially Steranko and Simon) it was very much focused on comics that were adapted into film and tv (and radio, to a lesser extent) It ignored major works and publishers that did not get turned into movie serials, motion pictures or tv shows. That documentary was still pretty good; but, that facet really kind of disappointed me, as it meant they ignored a lot of great material, in favor of lesser stuff, just because someone did an adaptation. For instance, Fox's Blue Beetle is brought up, mainly because it had a very short-lived radio show, while Quality Comics, which was a major player, was mostly ignored.
The best, overall, documentary of comics I have ever seen is the 4 volume History of the Comics, the 9th Art, which was distributed in the US, on VHS, by White Star Video. It was done in Europe (it has some credits that suggest Spain, thought it has an English narration, though that might have just been for the English market) and focused on comic books and comic strips, showcasing stuff from the 1800s up to the mid-late 80s. It featured several creators in interview pieces, including Charles Schulz, Mort Walker, Lee Falk, Burne Hogarth, Will Eisner, Harvey Kurtzman, Jack Kirby, Neal Adams, Richard Corben, Quino, Goseki Kojima, Osamu Tezuka, Druillet, Moebius, Liberatore, Crepax, Manara, Alan Moore, Howard Chaykin, Julie Simmons-Lynch (then editor of Heavy Metal), Maurice Horn (French comics historian) Denis Gifford (British cartoonist and comics historian) and some others.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 21:58:49 GMT -5
There is another thread about the subject; but, that line-up confirms my misgivings voiced in the other thread; that it is through the lens of other media (meaning Hollywood). That was what devalued the one that PBS did a few years back, with Joe Simon and Steranko. As much as they added some interesting history (especially Steranko and Simon) it was very much focused on comics that were adapted into film and tv (and radio, to a lesser extent) It ignored major works and publishers that did not get turned into movie serials, motion pictures or tv shows. That documentary was still pretty good; but, that facet really kind of disappointed me, as it meant they ignored a lot of great material, in favor of lesser stuff, just because someone did an adaptation. For instance, Fox's Blue Beetle is brought up, mainly because it had a very short-lived radio show, while Quality Comics, which was a major player, was mostly ignored. The best, overall, documentary of comics I have ever seen is the 4 volume History of the Comics, the 9th Art, which was distributed in the US, on VHS, by White Star Video. It was done in Europe (it has some credits that suggest Spain, thought it has an English narration, though that might have just been for the English market) and focused on comic books and comic strips, showcasing stuff from the 1800s up to the mid-late 80s. It featured several creators in interview pieces, including Charles Schulz, Mort Walker, Lee Falk, Burne Hogarth, Will Eisner, Harvey Kurtzman, Jack Kirby, Neal Adams, Richard Corben, Quino, Goseki Kojima, Osamu Tezuka, Druillet, Moebius, Liberatore, Crepax, Manara, Alan Moore, Howard Chaykin, Julie Simmons-Lynch (then editor of Heavy Metal), Maurice Horn (French comics historian) Denis Gifford (British cartoonist and comics historian) and some others. I had that documentary on tape (I just gifted to a dealer friend as part of the purge (Dan Taylor of Jim & Dan's show and shop) who always gives me a good deal or points me towards interesting stuff (and always gives me a free bag and board at shows when I get commissions done but forget to take something to protect them until I get home). I knew he would enjoy it, so it was a thank you of sorts for all he's done for me. I am looking forward to the Kirkman show (I think I started the other thread, maybe a mod can merge them), even while I acknowledge the limitations codystarbuck points out. I hope I will at least get a new perspective or two out of it if not learn some new things or discover something I hadn't known about that interests me. -M
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Post by Jesse on Nov 13, 2017 16:04:17 GMT -5
Watched the first episode last night and thought it was interesting look at the Kirby and Lee relationship. Set a reminder for the second episode tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 16:25:29 GMT -5
Watched the first episode last night and thought it was interesting look at the Kirby and Lee relationship. Set a reminder for the second episode tonight. Yeah I watched it at lunch today. It was decent television and they went in a little more on the Kirby side than I expected, but in the end, they edited it and stacked the end with Lee apologists like Fingeroth to make that the lasting impression. It did strike me that Stan did not come off well when they asked him directly why Kirby left and he dodged the question claiming he didn't know then because he wasn't there and never found out (same with Ditko), it just seemed shifty and evasive, especially when you open with "I am going to be honest with you..." as he did. I was surprised so much of the episode was taken up with the Lee Kirby relationship though, but they did gloss over Kirby returning to Atlas to do monster books in the 50s and made it look like he came back just to do FF #1 in 1961 after Lee had come up with the book and hired Jack specifically to do it for Marvel when he had been otherwise unemployed. So while it was worth watching, there were some sketchy bits in the way it was edited/put together to shape the narrative. -M
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 14, 2017 9:40:30 GMT -5
Watched the first episode last night and thought it was interesting look at the Kirby and Lee relationship. Set a reminder for the second episode tonight. Yeah I watched it at lunch today. It was decent television and they went in a little more on the Kirby side than I expected, but in the end, they edited it and stacked the end with Lee apologists like Fingeroth to make that the lasting impression. It did strike me that Stan did not come off well when they asked him directly why Kirby left and he dodged the question claiming he didn't know then because he wasn't there and never found out (same with Ditko), it just seemed shifty and evasive, especially when you open with "I am going to be honest with you..." as he did. I was surprised so much of the episode was taken up with the Lee Kirby relationship though, but they did gloss over Kirby returning to Atlas to do monster books in the 50s and made it look like he came back just to do FF #1 in 1961 after Lee had come up with the book and hired Jack specifically to do it for Marvel when he had been otherwise unemployed. So while it was worth watching, there were some sketchy bits in the way it was edited/put together to shape the narrative. -M Haven't seen it; but, what you describe is typical of a lot of these things, produced by Hollywood, on the History Channel and the like. They compact things and skip over stuff that doesn't fit their narrative and nothing will dissuade them from that narrative. They are more interested in telling the story they have crafted than the actual history. Even Crumb doesn't completely escape this. Comics history is a large and complex subject, filled with colorful characters, outright crooks, fan revisionism, corporate images, tragedies and politics, which is fertile ground for a lot of great stories; but, no one wants to explore it in a long form, like a Ken Burns. That PBS one devoted some time; but really skipped a ton of interesting and key stuff. Even The History of the Comics, with 4 volumes (and there was more than one episode per volume) had to skim over stuff, because t was covering newspaper and comic book comics, from the US and around the globe. Manga got stuffed into one episode, really reducing it to snippets. It tended to group works into thematic blocks, which at least gave you some context to things. With so many gone, I wonder if we will ever get a really great documentary series about American comics, where you can explore things like Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson skipping out on his debts, and Liebowitz and Donenfeld picking up things, or the lawsuit against Victor Fox, or mafia ties to printing and distribution, or alleged ties to Charlton. Would Disney allow someone to examine the behind-the-scenes at Marvel, like The Secret History of Marvel Comics or Marvel Comics: The Untold Story? Books are one thing, but would they cooperate with a tv or cinematic effort, unless they could control the message, especially with intellectual property rights in the balance?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 20:18:12 GMT -5
Watched the first episode last night and thought it was interesting look at the Kirby and Lee relationship. Set a reminder for the second episode tonight. I couldn't watch it because of Power Outage ... Drats!
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Post by Jesse on Nov 15, 2017 14:00:26 GMT -5
I thought the Wonder Woman episode was even more interesting.
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Post by Jesse on Nov 21, 2017 2:26:31 GMT -5
Really interesting third episode. I had no idea that Neal Adams was so instrumental in Siegel and Shuster getting more recognition as creators of Superman.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 15:21:29 GMT -5
Really interesting third episode. I had no idea that Neal Adams was so instrumental in Siegel and Shuster getting more recognition as creators of Superman. I was surprised by that ... and it's shows that Neal's cares about them and that's class by him!
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 21, 2017 21:51:56 GMT -5
Fairly common knowledge, in comic circles in the 70s. Adams did a lot to connect them with mainstream media, in the lead up to the Superman movie. He was also instrumental in giving insight to Jenette Kahn about the inner workings of DC, production procedures/issues, and other technical elements to comic publishing. He was also generally credited with helping to drag DC's production department into the modern world, in the early 70s.
He wasn't quite so successful when he decided to go into publishing on his own. I spoke to Clarke Hawbaker for a while at a convention, about Continuity. He had done a bit of work there, before landing Nomad, at Marvel. he said stuff sat on Neal's desk, while he worked on commercial art projects, until Neal got back to them, which added to long delays between issues. I always thought they had an odd color palate, compared to most comics out there; a lot of orange and purple.
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Post by String on Dec 8, 2017 12:59:16 GMT -5
I found the Milestone episode very interesting. Their passion for comics is undeniable. I'm also reminded of what a big loss it still is about McDuffie.
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