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Post by Outrajs on Oct 9, 2017 8:58:07 GMT -5
On another post about villainesses, I noticed that many posters mentioned villainesses who switched sides and played the "good guy". Some jumped the line multiple times. What about make characters? Since women seem to do it so well, who is your favorite male character who switched from bad to good...or good to bad? Why did the switch work in your opinion?
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 9, 2017 10:30:26 GMT -5
On another post about villainesses, I noticed that many posters mentioned villainesses who switched sides and played the "good guy". Some jumped the line multiple times. What about make characters? Since women seem to do it so well, who is your favorite male character who switched from bad to good...or good to bad? Why did the switch work in your opinion? Well, the most popular example is Hawkeye, but he was pretty much conned into helping commit crimes. I quite liked the pied Piper, in the Flash, who reforms and ends up helping Wally West, while also coming out of the closet, without PR releases (looking at you, Marvel). Mark Waid took a minor Flash villain and made him interesting. Deathstroke and Batroc did a bit of back and forth, depending on their code of honor, and Paladin, as a mercenary, worked both sides (though mostly the hero side). Never liked Magneto's change and neither did editorial, as they switched him back. Mark Waid's Irredeemable and Incorruptible cover the topic pretty well. |
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Post by badwolf on Oct 9, 2017 11:48:36 GMT -5
Quicksilver would be another major one, though like Namor he would occasionally flip-flop in moments of insanity.
The Prowler reformed under the guidance of Spider-Man (though I think he also pretty much gave up his costumed guise altogether.) Likewise Rocket Racer.
Porcupine gave up crime and ended up helping Captain America before his death. The new Porcupine who hung around with Spider-Woman was also a former criminal.
Northstar was revealed to have had a past history as part of a terrorist group before his time in Alpha Flight.
Major Disaster went to the other side and joined the JLA for a time.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 9, 2017 12:18:06 GMT -5
On another post about villainesses, I noticed that many posters mentioned villainesses who switched sides and played the "good guy". Some jumped the line multiple times. What about make characters? Since women seem to do it so well, who is your favorite male character who switched from bad to good...or good to bad? Why did the switch work in your opinion? Well, the most popular example is Hawkeye, but he was pretty much conned into helping commit crimes. I quite liked the pied Piper, in the Flash, who reforms and ends up helping Wally West, while also coming out of the closet, without PR releases (looking at you, Marvel). Mark Waid took a minor Flash villain and made him interesting. Deathstroke and Batroc did a bit of back and forth, depending on their code of honor, and Paladin, as a mercenary, worked both sides (though mostly the hero side). Never liked Magneto's change and neither did editorial, as they switched him back. Mark Waid's Irredeemable and Incorruptible cover the topic pretty well. Magneto is currently an anti-hero again, though, running one of the X-Men teams, isn't he? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 13:07:49 GMT -5
I think Quicksilver was explained away as being influenced by Maximus. He was great as a villain , though.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 13:09:58 GMT -5
My main criticism of bad guy to good guy is that they become weaker and suddenly are defeated easier. I've been reading the current Dr. Doom as Iron Man and it seems that all his powers and skill have been cut by 50%.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 9, 2017 14:17:18 GMT -5
The Swordsman, too, right?
Did the Flash's Silver Age villlain Mr. Element remain a good guy at long last?
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Post by badwolf on Oct 9, 2017 17:46:21 GMT -5
I think Quicksilver was explained away as being influenced by Maximus. He was great as a villain , though. I hated that WCA annual where he went completely looney toons and turned on the Avengers. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 9, 2017 22:37:02 GMT -5
No love for Lex? I hate him as a good guy, but it almost works the way they're doing it now, where he's a selfish, jealous good guy that's on the edge of reverting to form at any moment.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 10, 2017 2:54:24 GMT -5
Magneto was a problem, yeah.
It totally made sense in terms of character logic and the story Claremont was trying to tell, but it really hurts the franchise if you don't have your best villain any more.
You really need a deep bench of villains to be able to have some of 'em switch sides. I liked the Riddler as consulting detective - Batman is one of the few characters who can "sacrafice" a top-tier villain and have enough villains left that it doesn't matter that much.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 10, 2017 2:56:41 GMT -5
Fun fact: Black Canary originated as a Johnny Thunder Villain.
I'm trying to think of other old-school examples - Green Lantern and the Harlequin? Did she even ever count as a villain?
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