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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 7:09:53 GMT -5
I know people who are convinced they live in haunted houses, and they're pretty blasé about it. I would be much more scared about it, if I were in their shoes. Of course, in order to be in their shoes, I'd first have to believe in the supernatural, which is never gong to happen.
I've had two instances of... weird experiences, which do not require any supernatural explanation, but the odds of these things happening accidentally are darn high. When I was in the marines, there was apparently a doppelganger trying to usurp my place in this world. One time I got into a bit of trouble (and it was the only time, and really minor), and the consequences were no big deal. But my grandmother reported to my parents that she received a call from some military official that I was in the brig for some unspecified offense. Of course, there would have been no such call made. The military doesn't call your grandma to rat you out when you get office hours.
The other time is I was out and about and found something which I thought would make a good gift for my girlfriend (now wife). I ended up deciding not to get it, but a week later, she thanked me for the gift I sent her, which, while it wasn't exactly the item I was looking at, it was pretty close.
Hmmm... how would I know I'm not the doppelganger settled into this guy's life, and the original has been displaced somehow? Maybe they *real* Drake Tungsten is the one who was the subject of a phone call, and who sent the gift? And why couldn't I be the doppelganger of somebody with lots more money?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
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Post by Confessor on Jul 6, 2023 7:52:37 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts at all. There isn't a single shred of scientific evidence to back up their existence. Not one thing. Despite thousands, if not millions, of alleged sightings or experiences and decades of scientific investigation. The only logical conclusion can be that there is no such thing as ghosts; it's all just down to coincidence, auto-suggestion, the vagaries of the human auditory and visual systems, instances of pareidolia, or perfectly explainable natural or man-made phenomena. Don't get me wrong, I'm romanced by the mythology and folkloric nature of ghosts and hauntings as much as the next guy, and honestly...I kind of wish they were real. But come on, they simply don't exist.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 6, 2023 8:04:40 GMT -5
Supernatural things, yeah not much of a believer. Open minded enough to be proven wrong, but until than I can't be bothered to believe in them. However I will admit to being the Whitley Steriber of CCF so I am not totally scientifically minded.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 6, 2023 13:43:21 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts at all. There isn't a single shred of scientific evidence to back up their existence. Not one thing. Despite thousands, if not millions, of alleged sightings or experiences and decades of scientific investigation. The only logical conclusion can be that there is no such thing as ghosts; it's all just down to coincidence, auto-suggestion, the vagaries of the human auditory and visual systems, instances of pareidolia, or perfectly explainable natural or man-made phenomena. Don't get me wrong, I'm romanced by the mythology and folkloric nature of ghosts and hauntings as much as the next guy, and honestly...I kind of wish they were real. But come on, they simply don't exist. Being a skeptic by both instinct and education, I agree about the lack of hard evidence and all the logical alternative explanations (I can easily chalk up my own experiences to one or more of those) but until they can definitively prove that the human soul doe not exist and doesn't survive our physical death, my mind remains open to the possibility of ghosts.
Cei-U! I summon Casper and Spooky!
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Post by twiggs462 on Jul 6, 2023 18:23:59 GMT -5
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 6, 2023 21:14:43 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts at all. There isn't a single shred of scientific evidence to back up their existence. Not one thing. Despite thousands, if not millions, of alleged sightings or experiences and decades of scientific investigation. The only logical conclusion can be that there is no such thing as ghosts; it's all just down to coincidence, auto-suggestion, the vagaries of the human auditory and visual systems, instances of pareidolia, or perfectly explainable natural or man-made phenomena. Don't get me wrong, I'm romanced by the mythology and folkloric nature of ghosts and hauntings as much as the next guy, and honestly...I kind of wish they were real. But come on, they simply don't exist. Being a skeptic by both instinct and education, I agree about the lack of hard evidence and all the logical alternative explanations (I can easily chalk up my own experiences to one or more of those) but until they can definitively prove that the human soul doe not exist and doesn't survive our physical death, my mind remains open to the possibility of ghosts.
Cei-U! I summon Casper and Spooky!
Shouldn't the burden of proof, in regards to the human soul, be on those who proclaim its existence?
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,754
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2023 21:22:36 GMT -5
Welcome to the community, Twiggs! Much as I'd love to see that happen, plenty of optioned properties get a lot farther than this and still don't get made. And, if it does, it's likely to be extremely different from the comic book property since poor Vampy isn't remembered by wider audiences for anything other than her looks. I really loved those stories, but we'll be lucky if anyone who touches the script ever read any. So I love your enthusiasm, and I certainly don't want to put a damper on it, but I'm more than a little cautious at this point.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 6, 2023 21:24:30 GMT -5
Being a skeptic by both instinct and education, I agree about the lack of hard evidence and all the logical alternative explanations (I can easily chalk up my own experiences to one or more of those) but until they can definitively prove that the human soul doe not exist and doesn't survive our physical death, my mind remains open to the possibility of ghosts.
Cei-U! I summon Casper and Spooky!
Shouldn't the burden of proof, in regards to the human soul, be on those who proclaim its existence? Only if you want things to work scientifically.
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Post by majestic on Jul 7, 2023 7:51:56 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts. However I do feel that we live on after this. I work in the medical field and have seen people die. Yes their chemical processes cease but it also feels like something leaves their body. We are more than this physical shell. Where our soul goes after death is something I don't wish to discuss here since like politics religious beliefs discussions can get ugly...😣
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 7, 2023 7:53:50 GMT -5
Being a skeptic by both instinct and education, I agree about the lack of hard evidence and all the logical alternative explanations (I can easily chalk up my own experiences to one or more of those) but until they can definitively prove that the human soul doe not exist and doesn't survive our physical death, my mind remains open to the possibility of ghosts.
Cei-U! I summon Casper and Spooky!
Shouldn't the burden of proof, in regards to the human soul, be on those who proclaim its existence? Yes, of course. That was bad phrasing on my part. The point is that some things--like the soul or the existence of a higher power--can't be proven or disproven via the scientific method and I therefore keep an open mind on those things. If that line of thinking was good enough for Martin Gardner, it's good enough for yours truly.
Cei-U! I summon the hasty clarification!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 8, 2023 17:48:17 GMT -5
Regarding the human soul/ life after death, while I'm not religious or spiritual in any way ever since learning about the First Law of Thermodynamics in middle school I've felt that something definitely happens after we breath our last. Everything we are from our memories, personalities, sense humor and even personal tastes on food and yes, even comics is just energy coursing through our noggins and so if that energy cannot be destroyed only transformed into something else or transferred to some place else then that is our ultimate end: we either become something else or go some place else. What that transformation might be(reincarnation?) or where that place our energy gets transferred to might be(heaven?) I don't know, but we certainly aren't destroyed and gone forever which is comforting. I also smoked a LOT of pot in middle school though...so maybe take my views with a bit of salt?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 20:23:54 GMT -5
Regarding the human soul/ life after death, while I'm not religious or spiritual in any way ever since learning about the First Law of Thermodynamics in middle school I've felt that something definitely happens after we breath our last. Everything we are from our memories, personalities, sense humor and even personal tastes on food and yes, even comics is just energy coursing through our noggins and so if that energy cannot be destroyed only transformed into something else or transferred to some place else then that is our ultimate end: we either become something else or go some place else. What that transformation might be(reincarnation?) or where that place our energy gets transferred to might be(heaven?) I don't know, but we certainly aren't destroyed and gone forever which is comforting. If you burn a book, theoretically, the information which was in that book is not lost. The imprinted ink on those pages ever so slightly influenced the formation of the ashes, and also influenced the properties of whatever other products came from the burning process. Does that mean the information which we think of when we say "books contain information" is still accessible to us from the products of the burnt book? Does that information still exist in any meaningful sense on the human scale? No. Well, it's the same thing with the personality and memories which were once contained in a cadaver's brain when the body was alive.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 9, 2023 8:04:42 GMT -5
Regarding the human soul/ life after death, while I'm not religious or spiritual in any way ever since learning about the First Law of Thermodynamics in middle school I've felt that something definitely happens after we breath our last. Everything we are from our memories, personalities, sense humor and even personal tastes on food and yes, even comics is just energy coursing through our noggins and so if that energy cannot be destroyed only transformed into something else or transferred to some place else then that is our ultimate end: we either become something else or go some place else. What that transformation might be(reincarnation?) or where that place our energy gets transferred to might be(heaven?) I don't know, but we certainly aren't destroyed and gone forever which is comforting. If you burn a book, theoretically, the information which was in that book is not lost. The imprinted ink on those pages ever so slightly influenced the formation of the ashes, and also influenced the properties of whatever other products came from the burning process. Does that mean the information which we think of when we say "books contain information" is still accessible to us from the products of the burnt book? Does that information still exist in any meaningful sense on the human scale? No. Well, it's the same thing with the personality and memories which were once contained in a cadaver's brain when the body was alive. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall ever writing that I think the energy in living things is accessible or meaningful to us after death. I don't think it's possible for instance that just because the energy inside my grandmother didn't end when her life did that I could hold a seance and talk to my dearly departed Nana, or that she could still continue to interact with me in some physical way. But that doesn't negate the laws of thermodynamics that say that the energy isn't destroyed, it doesn't simply vanish or end but rather becomes something new or is transferred some place new. What that new energy might be, or where that energy may be transferred to I don't know but for me personally that our energy becomes something or goes some where, no matter what or where, is more comforting than simply decaying.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2023 9:57:39 GMT -5
Regarding the human soul/ life after death, while I'm not religious or spiritual in any way ever since learning about the First Law of Thermodynamics in middle school I've felt that something definitely happens after we breath our last. Everything we are from our memories, personalities, sense humor and even personal tastes on food and yes, even comics is just energy coursing through our noggins and so if that energy cannot be destroyed only transformed into something else or transferred to some place else then that is our ultimate end: we either become something else or go some place else. What that transformation might be(reincarnation?) or where that place our energy gets transferred to might be(heaven?) I don't know, but we certainly aren't destroyed and gone forever which is comforting. If you burn a book, theoretically, the information which was in that book is not lost. The imprinted ink on those pages ever so slightly influenced the formation of the ashes, and also influenced the properties of whatever other products came from the burning process. Does that mean the information which we think of when we say "books contain information" is still accessible to us from the products of the burnt book? Does that information still exist in any meaningful sense on the human scale? No. Well, it's the same thing with the personality and memories which were once contained in a cadaver's brain when the body was alive. Very well put! It's a bit like a piece of music played by an instrument. When the instrument no longer works, the music stops. It still exists in the memory of the people who heard it, or in recordings, but no longer as the original thing.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2023 10:15:17 GMT -5
If you burn a book, theoretically, the information which was in that book is not lost. The imprinted ink on those pages ever so slightly influenced the formation of the ashes, and also influenced the properties of whatever other products came from the burning process. Does that mean the information which we think of when we say "books contain information" is still accessible to us from the products of the burnt book? Does that information still exist in any meaningful sense on the human scale? No. Well, it's the same thing with the personality and memories which were once contained in a cadaver's brain when the body was alive. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall ever writing that I think the energy in living things is accessible or meaningful to us after death. I don't think it's possible for instance that just because the energy inside my grandmother didn't end when her life did that I could hold a seance and talk to my dearly departed Nana, or that she could still continue to interact with me in some physical way. But that doesn't negate the laws of thermodynamics that say that the energy isn't destroyed, it doesn't simply vanish or end but rather becomes something new or is transferred some place new.
Absolutely. The energy contained in the chemical bonds of a decaying body is used to form other bonds in other molecules or is freed as heat. As you say, it is not lost. But decaying is a simple transfer of energy. My parents' bodies ceased functioning and their life ended, but their molecules were converted (mostly to CO2, as both were cremated) that will end up in trees thanks to photosynthesis, or in the very rocks that form the Earth (as carbonates). The oxygen they released will allow living things to breathe, and they will hence live on in myriad forms. Intellectually, the example they set, the people they touched, the work they did, will all contribute to fashion the overall human experience. They will live on in such a fashion, and even if eventually their individuality will fade, the echoes of their existence will resonate for a very long time yet. And even more intriguing: to an observer located 20 light years away... they are still alive! It's just that they can't really interact.
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