|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 20, 2022 18:39:44 GMT -5
I have a confession to make.
I often think that I should stop re-reading the same things and show a little more curiosity regarding the vast, vast number of great books out there. After all, we only have so much time.
However, having just finished re-reading Lord of the Rings, I thought I'd just read the Ainulindalë part of The Silmarillion... and I got hooked again! It's clear I won't stop until the end.
It is a magnificent book, which actually gains in beauty as one becomes more and more familiar with it (as you don't have to ask who the heck Tulkas or Yavanna might be).
It is basically the Bible of Middle-earth, and a better-crafted mythology I have never encountered. Concepts like Middle-Earth being lit by faraway stars for eons before the Sun and Moon were created, or of Melian teaching nightingales how to sing, echo similar ideas from actual mythologies. Being weaved by a singke creator, however, here they have the advantage lf being completely coherent.
If Putin manages to put an end to modern civilization and we have to built it back from scratch, I would only be half-surprised if a real religion developed from Tolkien's work!
|
|
|
|
Post by Calidore on Mar 20, 2022 19:16:27 GMT -5
I have a confession to make. I often think that I should stop re-reading the same things and show a little more curiosity regarding the vast, vast nimber of great books out there. After all, we only have so much time. However, having just finished re-reading Lord of the Rings, I thought I'd just read the Ainulindalë part of The Silmarillion... and I got hooked again! It's clear I won't stop until the end. It is a magnificent book, which actually gains in beauty as one becomes more and more familiar with it (as you don't have to ask who the heck Tulkas or Yavanna might be). It is basically the Bible of Middle-earth, and a better-crafted mythology I have never encountered. Concepts like Middle-Earth being lit by faraway stars for eons before the Sun and Moon were created, or of Melian teaching nightingales how to sing, echo similar ideas from actual mythologies. Being weaved by a singke creator, however, here they have the advantage lf being completely coherent. If Putin manages to put an end to modern civilization and we have to built it back from scratch, I would only be half-surprised if a real religion developed from Tolkien's work!
I actually liked The Silmarillion more than LotR. I've read TS three times so far and LotR only twice, and that was after multiple failed attempts over about 20 years. "Beren and Luthien" is still one of my favorite epic fantasy stories, period; just perfection.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212 
|
Post by Confessor on Mar 20, 2022 19:21:32 GMT -5
I have a confession to make. I often think that I should stop re-reading the same things and show a little more curiosity regarding the vast, vast nimber of great books out there. After all, we only have so much time. However, having just finished re-reading Lord of the Rings, I thought I'd just read the Ainulindalë part of The Silmarillion... and I got hooked again! It's clear I won't stop until the end. It is a magnificent book, which actually gains in beauty as one becomes more and more familiar with it (as you don't have to ask who the heck Tulkas or Yavanna might be). It is basically the Bible of Middle-earth, and a better-crafted mythology I have never encountered. Concepts like Middle-Earth being lit by faraway stars for eons before the Sun and Moon were created, or of Melian teaching nightingales how to sing, echo similar ideas from actual mythologies. Being weaved by a singke creator, however, here they have the advantage lf being completely coherent. If Putin manages to put an end to modern civilization and we have to built it back from scratch, I would only be half-surprised if a real religion developed from Tolkien's work! Fair enough. To each his own. But the Bible is still easier to read through than The Silmarillion. ...and that's saying something!  |
|
|
|
Post by Calidore on Mar 21, 2022 13:24:28 GMT -5
Fair enough. To each his own. But the Bible is still easier to read through than The Silmarillion. ...and that's saying something! 
Woof. I've read both, and I found Silmarillion much easier to get through. But that's the nature of art, different strokes.
Now if a group of talented fantasy authors were to take a cue from TS and rewrite the Bible in the same vein, that could be cool. Except some people would probably get upset.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
|
Post by Confessor on Apr 4, 2022 6:18:53 GMT -5
Let's talk about the Watcher in the Water and why we think it tried to grab Frodo.  In the scene in The Fellowship of the Ring, Gandalf notes that the "watcher" tried to grab Frodo alone, who of course was the ring bearer. I'm wondering why we think this was? The watcher is not affiliated with Morddor or a servent of Sauron, I don't believe...I was of the understanding that it came from beneath Mt. Caradhras in the depths of Moria. So, given that this origin suggests that it wasn't trying to capture the ring for Sauron, do we think that it was just drawn to the "evilness" of the ring? That has certainly always been my conclusion to the events of this scene. Or maybe you think that it did in fact have something to do with Sauron? Maybe Sauron was exerting his will through the mind of the "watcher"? Or maybe, as some here suggested about Mt. Caradhras itself being sentient, there was no rhyme or reason to it: the "watcher" simply grabbed Frodo by chance? |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 5, 2022 12:35:43 GMT -5
I vote for "happened by chance; the watcher would eat orcs, dwavres or rabbits too if they passed by".
To me, the watcher is one of those nasties that were buried deep in the ground after the War of Wrath, in the depths where Durin's bane also hid. The dwarves digged too deep in Moria, and freed not only the balrog, but also other assorted horrors.
As to what it was, I would guess some kind of spirit that came from outside long ago, perhaps akin to a Maia gone bad (as were the balrogs), or to whatever kind of spirit Ungoliant belonged to (albeit much weaker).
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Apr 5, 2022 21:01:38 GMT -5
The Watcher reminds me a little of another monstrous relic or survivor form a bygone age, Shelob: not subject or allied to Sauron but her lair was in or around Mordor. Perhaps the Watcher sensed and was drawn to the evil or power of the Ring without having any idea of using it for its own ends, as Shelob possibly was drawn to Mordor without having any idea of "Hey, I'm evil, Mordor's evil, I should go live there!". I don't think either idea was ever put forward in the text - in fact, now I think of it, I have the feeling that Shelob may have been there before Sauron made Mordor his home base.
So I suppose it's more an association of dark, dangerous, malevolent forces and beings without them necessarily interacting much with each other. Entities like Shelob and the Watcher are presumably too primaeval and uncontrollable to be of use to Sauron or figure in his plans but might still be instinctively, unconsciously drawn to his evil.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on Apr 7, 2022 1:28:29 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2022 14:31:05 GMT -5
From a 1977 issue of TV Guide previewing the then upcoming Hobbit animated movie...  -M |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2022 12:31:45 GMT -5
This came up in my wife's feed for fantasy art, a piece featuring Eowyn vs. The Witch King of Angmar by an artist named Craig Spearing...  -M |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 14, 2022 14:16:10 GMT -5
Having finally purchased the Usagi Yojimbo trade Bunraku and other tales I was reminded of the play presented by the Théâtre sans fil back in the early '80s, using the giant puppets animated by people dressed in black typical of that Japanese tradition. I had really liked it, especially when Smaug stretched his wings across the entire scene. The production really had a '70s feel to it (kind of like the Hobbit animated movie), but it was quite charming. There doesn't seem to be a lot of footage from the play online, and this is about the only one I found. No Smaug, but we do see Gollum and the really cool way the Mirkwood spiders weave their webs during the night!
The Théâtre sans fil also produced Lord of the Rings at a later date, but that one I never saw. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
|
Post by Confessor on Apr 14, 2022 19:47:07 GMT -5
^^ Freaky... but I kind of like it.  |
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 27, 2022 13:33:32 GMT -5
Having finally purchased the Usagi Yojimbo trade Bunraku and other tales I was reminded by the play presented by the Théâtre sans fil back in the early '80s, using the giant puppets animated by people dressed in black typical of that Japanese tradition. I had really liked it, especially when Smaug stretched his wings across the entire scene. The production really had a '70s feel to it (kind of like the Hobbit animated movie), but it was quite charming. There doesn't seem to be a lot of footage from the play online, and this is about the only one I found. No Smaug, but we do see Gollum and the really cool way the Mirkwood spiders weave their webs during the night!
The Théâtre sans fil also produced Lord of the Rings at a later date, but that one I never saw. Wow, I really wish there was a recording of the whole thing that looks cool! |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 27, 2022 14:35:04 GMT -5
Nosta;gia might deform my memory, but if it's to be trusted at all this short clip doesn't really do the play justice (apart for Gollum and for the scene with the spider webs, which is pretty much as I remember them). I recall that there were a lot of black light effects tricking our eyes into seeing imagining complex backgrounds that weren't there. Smaug was spectacular when lit by a black light: when it unfurled its wings, they covered the width of the stage, burning in a hot red colour. (Admittedly it wasn't Carnegie Hall, but still).
|
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on May 3, 2022 11:26:33 GMT -5
A pretty good Tolkien impression... and Eleanor Morton is quickly becoming a favourite of mine! (Her Conan Doyle is pretty funny too).
|
|
