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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 24, 2022 19:17:12 GMT -5
New trailer for Rings of Power dropped today -M Some of the armor looks a little cheap, like it's cloth rather than proper chain mail, but I'll be checking it out for sure. This other news though? That's just dire. I've been bracing myself for crass commercialization but this is the absolute worst case scenario. Selling the rights to make more films to a company that's never made films before is just sad. I think the only silver lining is that the company is so inept(they seemingly have only made mobile games in the past) that none of these film ideas will ever see the light of day. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 19:49:03 GMT -5
This other news though? That's just dire. I've been bracing myself for crass commercialization but this is the absolute worst case scenario. Selling the rights to make more films to a company that's never made films before is just sad. I think the only silver lining is that the company is so inept(they seemingly have only made mobile games in the past) that none of these film ideas will ever see the light of day. I'm not going to worry about the Embracer group until actual scripts are commissioned and movies are actually in production. They are a company that looks like they have more money and ambition than sense, and those types of companies usually become vaporware. -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 24, 2022 19:54:30 GMT -5
This other news though? That's just dire. I've been bracing myself for crass commercialization but this is the absolute worst case scenario. Selling the rights to make more films to a company that's never made films before is just sad. I think the only silver lining is that the company is so inept(they seemingly have only made mobile games in the past) that none of these film ideas will ever see the light of day. I'm not going to worry about the Embracer group until actual scripts are commissioned and movies are actually in production. They are a company that looks like they have more money and ambition than sense, and those types of companies usually become vaporware. -M Yeah, I'd be surprised if anything comes of it, but the fact that it's even a possibility is a bad sign. How did lending them the rights seem like a good idea? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 19:58:00 GMT -5
I'm not going to worry about the Embracer group until actual scripts are commissioned and movies are actually in production. They are a company that looks like they have more money and ambition than sense, and those types of companies usually become vaporware. -M Yeah, I'd be surprised if anything comes of it, but the fact that it's even a possibility is a bad sign. How did lending them the rights seem like a good idea? Selling them the rights, not lending. It's money up front for something that may never see the light of day, and they may be thinking a fool and his money... Tolkien rights aren't going to come cheaply either, so the estate likely got a fair chunk of change out of this, and the estate's priority since the death of Christopher seems to be to make up for lost time and generate as much revenue as possible. -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 25, 2022 7:48:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd be surprised if anything comes of it, but the fact that it's even a possibility is a bad sign. How did lending them the rights seem like a good idea? Selling them the rights, not lending. It's money up front for something that may never see the light of day, and they may be thinking a fool and his money... Tolkien rights aren't going to come cheaply either, so the estate likely got a fair chunk of change out of this, and the estate's priority since the death of Christopher seems to be to make up for lost time and generate as much revenue as possible. -M But they'd make more money by partnering with better companies that are actually going to produce quality content. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 25, 2022 8:15:41 GMT -5
Selling them the rights, not lending. It's money up front for something that may never see the light of day, and they may be thinking a fool and his money... Tolkien rights aren't going to come cheaply either, so the estate likely got a fair chunk of change out of this, and the estate's priority since the death of Christopher seems to be to make up for lost time and generate as much revenue as possible. -M But they'd make more money by partnering with better companies that are actually going to produce quality content. Ah, but that would require long-term vision; something that is frightfully uncommon when it comes to licensing deals. We're just lucky that the Tolkien estate resisted for so long. As a fan, I'd rather have no tie-in at all than lousy ones. As the owner of the IP, I might just opine that money is money, and Merry and Pippin's Excellent Adventure or Rabbit Stew: the Samwise Cooking Show would soon be forgotten anyway. Obviously Christopher Tolkien didn't think so, but who knows what will happen next? Unfortunately, the lousier the tie-ins, the more damaged the property gets; I hope that the Tolkien estate remembers that. I believe the Conan property, to name one, is on the verge of complete irrelevance due to its recent mishandling. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 25, 2022 8:39:51 GMT -5
But they'd make more money by partnering with better companies that are actually going to produce quality content. Ah, but that would require long-term vision; something that is frightfully uncommon when it comes to licensing deals. We're just lucky that the Tolkien estate resisted for so long. As a fan, I'd rather have no tie-in at all than lousy ones. As the owner of the IP, I might just opine that money is money, and Merry and Pippin's Excellent Adventure or Rabbit Stew: the Samwise Cooking Show would soon be forgotten anyway. Obviously Christopher Tolkien didn't think so, but who knows what will happen next? Unfortunately, the lousier the tie-ins, the more damaged the property gets; I hope that the Tolkien estate remembers that. I believe the Conan property, to name one, is on the verge of complete irrelevance due to its recent mishandling. I would watch the hell out of a cooking show hosted by Sean Astin as Samwise. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 11:24:01 GMT -5
Selling them the rights, not lending. It's money up front for something that may never see the light of day, and they may be thinking a fool and his money... Tolkien rights aren't going to come cheaply either, so the estate likely got a fair chunk of change out of this, and the estate's priority since the death of Christopher seems to be to make up for lost time and generate as much revenue as possible. -M But they'd make more money by partnering with better companies that are actually going to produce quality content. that of course assumes they are getting those kinds of offers. With a bunch of the rights tied up with Amazon already, some of the "better" companies may not be making offers because they don't want patchwork rights or competition with the same IP from other production companies. We make a lot of assumptions about what happens behind the curtain based on how we feel about properties, but often the reality is vastly different than what we believe it should be. -M |
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Post by berkley on Aug 25, 2022 21:46:31 GMT -5
But they'd make more money by partnering with better companies that are actually going to produce quality content. Ah, but that would require long-term vision; something that is frightfully uncommon when it comes to licensing deals. We're just lucky that the Tolkien estate resisted for so long. As a fan, I'd rather have no tie-in at all than lousy ones. As the owner of the IP, I might just opine that money is money, and Merry and Pippin's Excellent Adventure or Rabbit Stew: the Samwise Cooking Show would soon be forgotten anyway. Obviously Christopher Tolkien didn't think so, but who knows what will happen next? Unfortunately, the lousier the tie-ins, the more damaged the property gets; I hope that the Tolkien estate remembers that. I believe the Conan property, to name one, is on the verge of complete irrelevance due to its recent mishandling.
I'm no longer sure that I'm going to try even the amazon series, which I had until recently more or less assumed I would be doing for at least a few episodes. But the previews so far have felt very ordinary - for example, alarmingly light on atmosphere and character. However, those are probably two of the more difficult things to capture or convey in short clips of a few minutes' duration, so I'm trying to keep an open mind. My expectations are lower now than they were a few months ago, which might be a good thing in a way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 22:19:32 GMT -5
Ah, but that would require long-term vision; something that is frightfully uncommon when it comes to licensing deals. We're just lucky that the Tolkien estate resisted for so long. As a fan, I'd rather have no tie-in at all than lousy ones. As the owner of the IP, I might just opine that money is money, and Merry and Pippin's Excellent Adventure or Rabbit Stew: the Samwise Cooking Show would soon be forgotten anyway. Obviously Christopher Tolkien didn't think so, but who knows what will happen next? Unfortunately, the lousier the tie-ins, the more damaged the property gets; I hope that the Tolkien estate remembers that. I believe the Conan property, to name one, is on the verge of complete irrelevance due to its recent mishandling. I'm no longer sure that I'm going to try even the amazon series, which I had until recently more or less assumed I would be doing for at least a few episodes. But the previews so far have felt very ordinary - for example, alarmingly light on atmosphere and character. However, those are probably two of the more difficult things to capture or convey in short clips of a few minutes' duration, so I'm trying to keep an open mind. My expectations are lower now than they were a few months ago, which might be a good thing in a way.
Yet reactions to early screenings among viewers and critics have been overwhelmingly positive. Word of mouth has been very positive. -M |
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Post by berkley on Aug 26, 2022 1:11:04 GMT -5
I'm no longer sure that I'm going to try even the amazon series, which I had until recently more or less assumed I would be doing for at least a few episodes. But the previews so far have felt very ordinary - for example, alarmingly light on atmosphere and character. However, those are probably two of the more difficult things to capture or convey in short clips of a few minutes' duration, so I'm trying to keep an open mind. My expectations are lower now than they were a few months ago, which might be a good thing in a way.
Yet reactions to early screenings among viewers and critics have been overwhelmingly positive. Word of mouth has been very positive. -M
Maybe it's the difference between a two or three minute preview and a full episode (or whatever those early screenings consisted of); or maybe this will be one of those things where my tastes don't coincide with those of the majority. I never did get into the immensely popular Game of Thrones series, though I may go back and give it another try one of these days.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 26, 2022 20:26:55 GMT -5
I'm no longer sure that I'm going to try even the amazon series, which I had until recently more or less assumed I would be doing for at least a few episodes. But the previews so far have felt very ordinary - for example, alarmingly light on atmosphere and character. However, those are probably two of the more difficult things to capture or convey in short clips of a few minutes' duration, so I'm trying to keep an open mind. My expectations are lower now than they were a few months ago, which might be a good thing in a way.
Yet reactions to early screenings among viewers and critics have been overwhelmingly positive. Word of mouth has been very positive. Yeah, Corey Olsen, who is pretty well known among the Tolkien fanbase for his podcasts analysing Tolkien’s works and the school he founded, Signum University, which offers a master’s degree in Tolkien Studies, saw the premiere of the first 2 episodes of Rings of Power and found it to be faithful to Tolkien and stated that he "really enjoyed it." So, that's definitely encouraging. That said, I do kind of know where berkley is coming from because the trailers have all looked and seemed a bit rubbish to me. I have to be honest, I don't know when -- or even if -- I'll see this because I don't have Amazon and I'm simply not interested enough to fork out for a monthly subscription just to watch it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 7:59:39 GMT -5
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Post by berkley on Aug 29, 2022 22:25:09 GMT -5
For me, yes, it matters, but no, it shouldn't necessarily decide what any individual reader/viewer thinks of the tv show or Jackson's films, or other adaptations. Everyone has to go with their own personal reaction - and it can happen that sometimes a reader won't like or agree with something the author him or herself does in later instalments of a series.
Northrop Frye once said something like, "The Dante who comments on the Divine Comedy is just another critic of Dante." Among other things, I take that to mean that the author's conscious intentions are always only part of the question when it comes to analysing the significance of a work of art, and I think this idea can be extended to how we react in general to art (i.e. not just critical analysis). As the creator, certainly their intentions are of special interest: they have "inside knowledge", of a sort, and if only for that reason I think the creator's thoughts about his or her own creation shouldn't be ignored altogether. But they don't necessarily have to determine every thought the reader has about that same creation.
Having said all that, I didn't care too much for the tone of the Tolkien Society guy: it came across to me as thinly disguised shilling for the new show and a complete dismissal of any concerns some viewers might have with it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 30, 2022 6:04:17 GMT -5
For me, yes, it matters, but no, it shouldn't necessarily decide what any individual reader/viewer thinks of the tv show or Jackson's films, or other adaptations. Everyone has to go with their own personal reaction - and it can happen that sometimes a reader won't like or agree with something the author him or herself does in later instalments of a series. Northrop Frye once said something like, "The Dante who comments on the Divine Comedy is just another critic of Dante." Fair point, and one that explains why I, as a viewer, do care about what Tolkien might have thought of this new series or of any other. It's because as far as fantasy goes, I really enjoy Tolkien's work while I usually dislike other LotR-inspired stories (especially the ones that simply transpose modern-day America to some kind of pseudo-medieval world). The main reason to consider what a critic might say of a film or TV show that we haven't seen yet is probably to decide if we're willing to invest some time watching it. I would trust Tolkien as a critic more than I would someone who liked The Witcher, for example, so his likely opinion is not without interest. Same here. "Does it matter what Tolkien would have thought about the rings of power"? Well no, not really... but then nothing matters ultimately, right? It's just a TV show. However, given the vast number of TV shows available, I reserve the right not to devote time to a specific one simply because a multinational tries to cash in on the reputation of an author. Hence the (relative) importance of how the new work relates to the original material, and what the author might have thought of it. That being said, Tolkien might very well have enjoyed the Rings of Power; we'll have to see how the show turns out. The matter is however not as trivial as this opinion piece makes it out to be, and a little surprising from someone associated with a Tolkien Society. |
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