Reading order for Claremont's X-Men

coke & comics
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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 26, 2017 17:51:20 GMT -5 shaxper and Dizzy D like this

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Post by coke & comics on Nov 26, 2017 17:51:20 GMT -5

I was asked how to best read Claremont's 16-year run on X-Men in order. A tricky question. I thought I'd post my response here and take any feedback or discussion this board might offer. Here's what I suggested.

---

A minimalist approach is:

Giant-Size X-Men #1, (Uncanny) X-Men #94-280, X-Men #1-3

That's pretty easy but what are you missing?

Two great and significant comics: Marvel Graphic Novel #5: God Loves, Man Kills, and Avengers annual 10

And several less significant comics that make plot points make sense, in particular the crossovers. Issues 210-213 are part of Mutant Massacre. 225-227 are part of Fall of the Mutants. 240-243 are part of Inferno. 270-272 are part of X-Tinction Agenda. 278-280 are part of the Muir Island Saga.

Fall of the Mutants and Mutant Massacre are nonintrusive crossovers. But the others are not.

Plus Contest of Champions, Secret Wars, Secret Wars 2, Acts of Vengeance, Evolutionary War and Atlantis Attacks, all of which I would definitely ignore as part of an X-Men reading.

Then there's the other mutant titles. A comprehensive reading might want to read all of New Mutants, X-Factor and Wolverine. But that can be too much. X-Factor and X-Men have little intersection aside from the crossovers mentioned above. There is little direct intersection with New Mutants, but relevant things happen in New Mutants. Like the fact that a bunch of kids move into the school. A lot of Magneto's development happens there, and some relevant Kitty Pryde stuff. The early issues are also penned by Claremont. Wolverine's solo stories will affect his character development but not the X-Men stories much. Classic X-Men will also shed a lot of insight into characters. But since these stories are mostly set in the past, it can be read separately. Marvel Comics Presents also has many Wolverine stories plus solo stories of other X-Men characters.

The annuals are mostly pretty good stories, all written by Claremont with a variety of excellent guest artists. But they tend to be stand-alone stories that can be hard to fit in with the main series. The main series tends to flow, endlessly continuing one to the next. Trying to squeeze the annuals in can break that flow. Only rarely do things that affect the main books happen, such as meeting Psylocke and Longshot.

I'll put a suggested order below, one that doesn't include most of New Mutants, X-Factor, Wolverine, Marvel Comics Presents or Classic X-Men. I also leave out any guest appearances of the X-Men which don't significantly affect the story. Micronauts, Moon Knight, Rom, Marvel Summer Specials, etc.

I'll add * next to the less important issues and ** or *** next to the really less important issues. Depending on how deep you want to go, you can choose how many *'s to include.

no stars -- the basics
* -- recommended additions
** -- supplementary reading
*** -- likely superfluous
**** -- not even sure why I'm mentioning it

Giant-Size X-Men #1
X-Men #94-95
Amazing Spider-Man #161-162 ** (A Nightcrawler story)
X-Men #96-124
Uncanny X-Men annual 3 *
X-Men #125-138
Uncanny X-Men annual 4 *
X-Men #139-141
Uncanny X-Men #142-143
Bizarre Adventures #27 * (Phoenix, Iceman, Nightcrawler)
Uncanny X-Men #144
Marvel Team-Up #100 * (Introduces Karma, first meeting of Storm and Black Panther)
Uncanny X-Men #145-147
Spider-Woman #37-38 *** (Introduces Siryn)
Uncanny X-Men #148-149
Avengers annual 10 (Introduces Rogue, has Rogue take Ms. Marvel's powers)
Uncanny X-Men #150
Uncanny X-Men annual 5 *
Marvel Fanfare #1-4 ** (X-Men in Savage Land)
Uncanny X-Men #151-165
Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (New Mutants) **
Uncanny X-Men #166-167
Special Edition X-Men #1 ** (a short Kitty and Illyana story)
Uncanny X-Men annual 6 * (Dracula, follow-up to X-Men 159)
Uncanny X-Men #168
Marvel Graphic Novel #5 (God Loves, Man Kills)
Uncanny X-Men #169-171
Wolverine #1-4 *
Uncanny X-Men #172-175
Uncanny X-Men annual 7 *
Uncanny X-Men #176-179
Magik #1-4 **
Uncanny X-Men #180-183
Marvel Graphic Novel #12 (Dazzler the Movie) **
Firestar #1-4 **
Kitty Pryde & Wolverine #1-6 *
Uncanny X-Men #184-192
Uncanny X-Men annual 8 *
X-Men & Alpha Flight #1-2 *
Uncanny X-Men #193-194
Nightcrawler #1-4 ** (fun adventure by Dave Cockrum)
Power Pack #12 * (story continues in X-Men 195)
Uncanny X-Men #195-199
New Mutants Special Edition * (2 part story with X-Men annual 9)
Uncanny X-Men annual 9 *
Uncanny X-Men #200-206
Longshot #1-6 **
New Mutants annual 2 * (Psylocke)
Uncanny X-Men annual 10 * (X-Babies, Longshot)
Uncanny X-Men #207-209
--Mutant Massacre (see below)
Uncanny X-Men #214-219
Fantastic Four vs X-Men #1-4 *
X-Men vs Avengers #1-4 **
Uncanny X-Men annual 11 *
Spider-Man vs. Wolverine **
Uncanny X-Men #220-234 (see Fall of the Mutants below)
Uncanny X-Men annual 12 * (see Evolutionary War below)
Uncanny X-Men #235-239
--Inferno (see below)
Uncanny X-Men #244-245
Uncanny X-Men annual 13 ** (see Atlantis Attacks below)
Havok & Wolverine Meltdown #1-4 **
Uncanny X-Men # 246-269
--Days of Future Present (see below)
--X-Tinction Agenda (see below)
Uncanny X-Men #273-277
--Muir Island Saga (see below)
X-Men #1-3

THE END.

The X-overs:

Mutant Massacre:
The different series represent mostly parallel threads against the same background and enemies. The X-Men parts can be more or less be read alone. I'll post a picture in the comics which will give a better map of the story. It is not really linear.
Uncanny X-Men #210
X-Factor #9 *
Uncanny X-Men #211
X-Factor #10 *
New Mutants #46 *
Thor #373 **
Power Pack #27 **
Uncanny X-Men #212
Thor #374 **
X-Factor #11 *
Daredevil #238**
Uncanny X-Men #213 *

Fall of the Mutants
The stories share a common backdrop, the Mutant Registration Act, but don't intersect. The X-Men parts can be read on their own.
Uncanny X-Men #225-227
New Mutants #59-61 *
X-Factor #24-26 **
Power Pack #35 ***
Captain America #339 ***
Daredevil #252 ***
Fantastic Four #312 ***

Inferno
The X-Factor issues are needed to make sense of this story, to the extent that one can make sense of the story.
Uncanny X-Men #240
X-Factor #36
Uncanny X-Men #241
X-Factor #37
Uncanny X-Men #242
X-Factor #38
Uncanny X-Men #243
X-Factor #39
X-Factor annual 4 **
Tie-ins: Too many to list *** (if you want to read one, find the one where Daredevil fights a vacuum cleaner)

Acts of Vegeance
Uncanny X-Men #255-257
X-Men parts can be read on their own. So I won't list any tie-ins. ****

Evolutionary War **
Uncanny X-Men annual 12 *
The single X-Men issue can be basically read by itself, or skipped. If you read any other parts of the Evolutionary War story, I would read the Alf issue. ****

Atlantis Attacks ****
The Atlantis Attacks story is superfluous to an X-Men reading. The only relevant story is the backup in annual 13 featuring Jubilee in her second appearance. Even that isn't necessary.
Uncanny X-Men annual 13 **
Skip the rest ****

Days of Future Present
Relevant for reuniting the X-Men and X-Factor in the lead-in to X-Tinction Agenda
Fantastic Four annual 23
X-Factor annual 5
New Mutants annual 6
Uncanny X-Men annual 14

X-Tinction Agenda
All parts needed to understand the story, if understanding the story is the goal.
Uncanny X-Men #270
New Mutants #95
X-Factor #60
Uncanny X-Men #271
New Mutants #96
X-Factor #61
Uncanny X-Men #272
New Mutants #97
X-Factor #62

Muir Island Saga
Uncanny X-Men #278-279
X-Factor #69
Uncanny X-Men #280
X-Factor #70 * (an epilogue by Peter David that bridges 280 with X-Men #1)
And now I want to sit down and reread all this.
Compiled with the help of:

UHBMCC

Marvel Chronology Project

Complete Marvel Reading Order

Mike’s Amazing World of Comics

Last Edit: Nov 26, 2017 17:54:23 GMT -5 by coke & comics

"We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." ~Angel

"For all their indisputable intelligence, men take this farce as something serious, and that is their tragedy." ~Brothers Karamazov

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coke & comics
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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 26, 2017 17:53:29 GMT -5

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Post by coke & comics on Nov 26, 2017 17:53:29 GMT -5

The first feedback I got was that many Claremont New Mutants issues are more essential than a lot of what I list. I agree, but also feel trying to intersperse New Mutants adds a lot of comics, when the New Mutants are mostly off having their own adventures. I find it preferable to read New Mutants separately.

Last Edit: Nov 26, 2017 17:56:35 GMT -5 by coke & comics

"We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." ~Angel

"For all their indisputable intelligence, men take this farce as something serious, and that is their tragedy." ~Brothers Karamazov

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 27, 2017 4:34:25 GMT -5 coke & comics and Roquefort Raider like this

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Post by shaxper on Nov 27, 2017 4:34:25 GMT -5

An ambitious effort, Chris! Claremont's X-Men run is what first turned me onto classic comics, made me obsessed with continuity, and (ultimately) taught me the futility of trying to be an expert on all those editorial boxes, referencing past events.

When I was far younger and more foolish, I tried to build an entire website devoted to this question, starting with a few issues just prior to GS X-Men #1 (Defenders #15-16, GS Fantastic Four #4, Incredible Hulk #180-181), but soon discovered there was a stretch of issues from the original X-Men run (around #48-52, I believe) that Claremont referenced extensively early into his run as well, and understanding those issues required going back even further.

It's a doozy, and I've come to believe there's just no way to do it right without reading absolutely everything or (more practically) just accepting that you can't read it all. I like what you've done here and don't mean to dismiss it. It's just that, no matter what reading order you develop, there will always be pesky editorial references in the corners that we weren't there for.

Last Edit: Nov 27, 2017 4:39:00 GMT -5 by shaxper

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 27, 2017 6:05:48 GMT -5 shaxper and coke & comics like this

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Post by Dizzy D on Nov 27, 2017 6:05:48 GMT -5

I think I mostly agree with your list, I definitely think you have all the essential reading material there.

My sugestions (all subjective):

Maybe add Marvel Team-Up #150 as a ** ? It's an X-Men Story, but it has no influence on continuity (then again same goes for other ** stories), but it's more relevant to the ongoing X-men story than Firestar or Longshot mini's.

I would add the New Mutants to the Inferno crossover, because Colossus pretty much disappears from the story in X-Men and shows up there. Maybe added as *** ?

The original Excalibur mini as recommended reading to get closure to Rachel's fate, a plotline started in Uncanny? (I'm trying to remember if anything else comes up, though you always run into defining what's essential. Is the story of an active X-Men essential, even if it's just meeting up with Spider-Man or another superhero? Is the fate of a former X-Men essential? In case of Wolverine this can become a real mess though.)

Barry Windsor Smith's Wolverine story as it gives Wolverine a backstory?

Mm... how do you feel about the backup stories added in the Classic X-Men reprints?

Edit: bit more explanation, some of these are just short stories about X-Men, but some add some history, relationships and so on that Claremont would later refer to. Examples:
#2 has Storm and Jean becoming friends, something which is later referred to, but never shown on page in the original comics.
#10 establishes that Wolverine and Sabretooth have a long history together.
#19 has Magneto's origin, how he lost his daughter. That one comes back a lot.
/Edit

This is another resource by the way that I've found useful: www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/ (Historical significance rating for issues, though subjective, gives some indication whether an appearance is just a guest appearance or has some more impact).

Last Edit: Nov 27, 2017 6:29:15 GMT -5 by Dizzy D

coke & comics
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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 28, 2017 3:21:38 GMT -5

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Post by coke & comics on Nov 28, 2017 3:21:38 GMT -5

My thoughts on Classic X-Men are similar to my thoughts on New Mutants. It definitely adds a lot to what's going on. That Magneto issue of Classic X-Men especially. But is it necessary to try to intersperse them? How much is lost by making Classic X-Men, or New Mutants for that matter, a separate reading project?

It's an odd position as both series are more essential than my suggested tie-ins. But my suggested tie-ins are one-offs, as opposed to adding in a whole series to intermix.

"We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." ~Angel

"For all their indisputable intelligence, men take this farce as something serious, and that is their tragedy." ~Brothers Karamazov

Read the Marvel Universe along with me at: cokeandcomics.com/

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 28, 2017 6:12:00 GMT -5

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Post by shaxper on Nov 28, 2017 6:12:00 GMT -5

The other problem posed by the Classic X-Men volume are the sometimes major changes Claremont made to the lead stories themselves. They're retcons, but they're retcons created and authorized by the guy who wrote those original stories in order to make them connect better to more recent events. So do you count them or not?

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 28, 2017 8:34:02 GMT -5

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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 28, 2017 8:34:02 GMT -5

If you're mentioning non-Claremont written books...

Marvel Team-Up Annual # 1 strikes me as fairly important just because it's such an early NXMem appearance.

Marvel Team-Up # 53 even more-so, because it's the first John Byrne drawn X-men.

Erica "Squirrel Girl" Henderson is a great artist.

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 28, 2017 9:17:51 GMT -5

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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 28, 2017 9:17:51 GMT -5

Aaaand there was a Claremont/Byrne Havoc story in MTU 69-70, which I'd rate as fairly important - It's a Claremont/Byrne story that (in part) takes place on Muir isle and involves Moira McTaggert and Madrox. '

And Nightcrawler guests up in the Claremont/written MTU 89, which has Arcade as the villain.

Iron Fist # 15 is Claremont/Byrne and guest-stars the X-men. You could throw in # 14 for the first Sabretooth as well.

Maaaaybe the Mystique issues of Ms. Marvel?

And the Neil Adams issues of the original series would be quite helpful for background: That was the model that Claremont was following in a lot of ways.

Erica "Squirrel Girl" Henderson is a great artist.

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 28, 2017 13:18:13 GMT -5 shaxper and Cei-U! like this

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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 28, 2017 13:18:13 GMT -5

Nov 28, 2017 6:12:00 GMT -5 shaxper said:

The other problem posed by the Classic X-Men volume are the sometimes major changes Claremont made to the lead stories themselves. They're retcons, but they're retcons created and authorized by the guy who wrote those original stories in order to make them connect better to more recent events. So do you count them or not?

An important question that continuity fans must ponder.

I was on my way out when Classic X-Men started introducing heresies like Jean having the hots for Logan, so I always saw them as "sort of canon, but not really".

I suppose that if one can just disregard the overall and massive Marvel continuity and just enjoy the stories for what they are, all that matters for the Cockrum-Byrne-Claremont era is the Cockrum-Byrne-Claremont issues.

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Nov 29, 2017 2:39:05 GMT -5

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Post by shaxper on Nov 29, 2017 2:39:05 GMT -5

Nov 26, 2017 17:51:20 GMT -5 coke & comics said:

X-Men #96-124

btw X-Men #106 and #110 are entirely skippable and were even omitted from the Classic X-Men reprints. #110, in particular, is an utter disaster and possibly the worst X-Men story ever written.

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Dec 1, 2017 11:02:02 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:02:02 GMT -5

Nov 26, 2017 17:51:20 GMT -5 coke & comics said:

Giant-Size X-Men #1
X-Men #94-95
Amazing Spider-Man #161-162 ** (A Nightcrawler story)
X-Men #96-124
Uncanny X-Men annual 3 *
X-Men #125-138
Uncanny X-Men annual 4 *
X-Men #139-141
Uncanny X-Men #142-143
Bizarre Adventures #27 * (Phoenix, Iceman, Nightcrawler)
Uncanny X-Men #144
Marvel Team-Up #100 * (Introduces Karma, first meeting of Storm and Black Panther)
Uncanny X-Men #145-147
Spider-Woman #37-38 *** (Introduces Siryn)
Uncanny X-Men #148-149
Avengers annual 10 (Introduces Rogue, has Rogue take Ms. Marvel's powers)
Uncanny X-Men #150
Uncanny X-Men annual 5 *
Marvel Fanfare #1-4 ** (X-Men in Savage Land)
Uncanny X-Men #151-165
Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (New Mutants) **
Uncanny X-Men #166-167
Special Edition X-Men #1 ** (a short Kitty and Illyana story)
Uncanny X-Men annual 6 * (Dracula, follow-up to X-Men 159)
Uncanny X-Men #168
Marvel Graphic Novel #5 (God Loves, Man Kills)
Uncanny X-Men #169-171
Wolverine #1-4 *
Uncanny X-Men #172-175
Uncanny X-Men annual 7 *
Uncanny X-Men #176-179
Magik #1-4 **
Uncanny X-Men #180-183

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Dec 1, 2017 20:30:28 GMT -5 Roquefort Raider likes this

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Post by spoon on Dec 1, 2017 20:30:28 GMT -5

Nov 28, 2017 9:17:51 GMT -5 Reptisaurus! said:

Aaaand there was a Claremont/Byrne Havoc story in MTU 69-70, which I'd rate as fairly important - It's a Claremont/Byrne story that (in part) takes place on Muir isle and involves Moira McTaggert and Madrox. '

And Nightcrawler guests up in the Claremont/written MTU 89, which has Arcade as the villain.

Iron Fist # 15 is Claremont/Byrne and guest-stars the X-men. You could throw in # 14 for the first Sabretooth as well.

Maaaaybe the Mystique issues of Ms. Marvel?

And the Neil Adams issues of the original series would be quite helpful for background: That was the model that Claremont was following in a lot of ways.

Iron Fist #15 is almost like a lost issue of Claremont/Byrne X-Men, so it's definitely worth reading.

Magik #1-4 might have a framing sequence or something that results in being placed as late as it is in your timeline, but it's really the previously untold story of what happened to Illyana between pages of Uncanny X-Men #160, so it might be interesting to read it there.

I'd recommend reading the X-Men Annual that's part of the Evolutionary War rather than skipping it. It's got Neal Adams art. It works in some threads from the X-Men history of the Savage Land (some of which was established in Classic X-Men back-ups to the Byrne era visit to the Savage Land). Also, since the X-Men end up back at the Savage Land around #250 of the main title, it's a nice addition.

Yes, the three X-books at the time (X-Men, X-Factor, and New Mutants) essentially had three independent plotlines during Fall of the Mutants, except for perhaps quick reference to the X-Men storyline (like a TV broadcast). The non-mutant titles in Fall of the Mutants basically all cross over with X-Factor, rather than X-Men or New Mutants.

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Dec 1, 2017 20:38:56 GMT -5

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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 1, 2017 20:38:56 GMT -5

Dec 1, 2017 20:30:28 GMT -5 spoon said:

Nov 28, 2017 9:17:51 GMT -5 Reptisaurus! said:

Aaaand there was a Claremont/Byrne Havoc story in MTU 69-70, which I'd rate as fairly important - It's a Claremont/Byrne story that (in part) takes place on Muir isle and involves Moira McTaggert and Madrox. '

And Nightcrawler guests up in the Claremont/written MTU 89, which has Arcade as the villain.

Iron Fist # 15 is Claremont/Byrne and guest-stars the X-men. You could throw in # 14 for the first Sabretooth as well.

Maaaaybe the Mystique issues of Ms. Marvel?

And the Neil Adams issues of the original series would be quite helpful for background: That was the model that Claremont was following in a lot of ways.

Iron Fist #15 is almost like a lost issue of Claremont/Byrne X-Men, so it's definitely worth reading.

Magik #1-4 might have a framing sequence or something that results in being placed as late as it is in your timeline, but it's really the previously untold story of what happened to Illyana between pages of Uncanny X-Men #160, so it might be interesting to read it there.

I'd recommend reading the X-Men Annual that's part of the Evolutionary War rather than skipping it. It's got Neal Adams art. It works in some threads from the X-Men history of the Savage Land (some of which was established in Classic X-Men back-ups to the Byrne era visit to the Savage Land). Also, since the X-Men end up back at the Savage Land around #250 of the main title, it's a nice addition.

It also has the revelation that Colossus is a father, right? (I think that the art is by Art Adams, though, not Neal. An understandable slip when it comes to the Savage Land and the X-Men!)

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Reading order for Claremont's X-Men Dec 1, 2017 20:55:34 GMT -5 Roquefort Raider likes this

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Post by spoon on Dec 1, 2017 20:55:34 GMT -5

Dec 1, 2017 20:38:56 GMT -5 Roquefort Raider said:

Dec 1, 2017 20:30:28 GMT -5 spoon said:

Iron Fist #15 is almost like a lost issue of Claremont/Byrne X-Men, so it's definitely worth reading.

Magik #1-4 might have a framing sequence or something that results in being placed as late as it is in your timeline, but it's really the previously untold story of what happened to Illyana between pages of Uncanny X-Men #160, so it might be interesting to read it there.

I'd recommend reading the X-Men Annual that's part of the Evolutionary War rather than skipping it. It's got Neal Adams art. It works in some threads from the X-Men history of the Savage Land (some of which was established in Classic X-Men back-ups to the Byrne era visit to the Savage Land). Also, since the X-Men end up back at the Savage Land around #250 of the main title, it's a nice addition.

It also has the revelation that Colossus is a father, right? (I think that the art is by Art Adams, though, not Neal. An understandable slip when it comes to the Savage Land and the X-Men!)

Yes, I don't think Colossus's fatherhood is explicitly stated, but the hints are like a sledgehammer to the head. That's one of the two plotlines I'm thinking of that connect with Classic X-Men back-up stories, the other one being Storm's other-dimensional friend (whose name I don't remember).

Yup. I meant Art Adams. I think seeing Neal mentioned at the end of message I was quoting made my brain go into auto-pilot, and type the wrong name. That's another Classic X-Men connection, as Art did early covers of Classic, including the one that had the Claremont/Bolton back-up about Piotr's relationship with Nereel.