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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 18:35:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree... but I also feel like everyone says that when they adapt something... it's sorta the 'right' answer when doing a classic property. Absolutely. That’s what they said before releasing the most recent Conan movie, and we know how that turned out. I never heard them say true to the Howard material, I kept hearing them say trying to visually capture the feel of a Frazetta painting. At best it was source material not Howard (and by that they meant the Ace paperbacks with the Frazetta paintings). That was what was troublesome to me-they thought what was wrong with the previous attempts was a visual feel problem, not a story problem. -M |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 11, 2018 19:48:21 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s what they said before releasing the most recent Conan movie, and we know how that turned out. I never heard them say true to the Howard material, I kept hearing them say trying to visually capture the feel of a Frazetta painting. At best it was source material not Howard (and by that they meant the Ace paperbacks with the Frazetta paintings). That was what was troublesome to me-they thought what was wrong with the previous attempts was a visual feel problem, not a story problem. -M What was wrong with the previous attempts was that the character they used (especially in the Milius film) was not Conan. Howard was clearly obsessed with the concept of personal freedom, and with the struggle of the self-relying individual chained by the rules of a society, of an oppressor, or of public opinion (as most clearly exemplified in his Esau Cairn character). His Conan would never, ever have tolerated to be a slave, or a gladiator. He would have died trying to escape first. Furthermore, he would never have let others dictate what his life would be; and the Milius character, for all that he knows an interesting evolution from complete boy-child to father-killer, is nothing at all like the actual Conan; the Milius guy is constantly letting others orient his destiny. The most recent cinematic interpretation did try to get the character closer to his source, but ultimately failed by tying him down to an oft-exploited vengence theme, which as in the Milius film does not reflect the spirit of freedom and oppotunism of the Howard creation. Maybe some day we’ll see a decent Conan on screen. We’ve seen flashes of him here and there, in a few scenes from (for exemple) Thief of Baghdad, The Scorpion King, and Rome. It is my belief that a TV series is more likely to delive the goods than a feature film, but careful optimism is the best I can muster right now! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 20:16:38 GMT -5
I never heard them say true to the Howard material, I kept hearing them say trying to visually capture the feel of a Frazetta painting. At best it was source material not Howard (and by that they meant the Ace paperbacks with the Frazetta paintings). That was what was troublesome to me-they thought what was wrong with the previous attempts was a visual feel problem, not a story problem. -M What was wrong with the previous attempts was that the character they used (especially in the Milius film) was not Conan. Howard was clearly obsessed with the concept of personal freedom, and with the struggle of the self-relying individual chained by the rules of a society, of an oppressor, or of public opinion (as most clearly exemplified in his Esau Cairn character). His Conan would never, ever have tolerated to be a slave, or a gladiator. He would have died trying to escape first. Furthermore, he would never have let others dictate what his life would be; and the Milius character, for all that he knows an interesting evolution from complete boy-child to father-killer, is nothing at all like the actual Conan; the Milius guy is constantly letting others orient his destiny. The most recent cinematic interpretation did try to get the character closer to his source, but ultimately failed by tying him down with an oft-exploited vengence theme, which as in the Milius film does not reflect the spirit of freedom and oppotunism of the Howard creation. Maybe some day we’ll see a decent Conan on screen. We’ve seen flashes of him here and there, in a few scenes from (for exemple) Thief of Baghdad, The Scorpion King, and Rome. It is my belief that a TV series is more likely to delive the goods than a feature film, but careful optimism is the best I can muster right now! I am in complete wait and see mode. I have no faith in Paradox, but if they hire someone who knows what they are doing, it could turn out ok. Paradox often misses the forest for the trees. They want another Arnie Conan because that's where they believe Conan was most successful. It will be up to whomever they hire to do the actual work to make something worthwhile in spite of Paradox's involvement. The Red Nails project looked like it had potential, but of course Paradox pulled the plug on that because it wasn't going to be Arnie Conan. MAybe one day they'll sell the rights off or go under. Until then I wait and see and hope someone gets it right and has enough pull to get it made even when Paradox tries to alter it to their vision. -M |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 12, 2018 8:45:46 GMT -5
What was wrong with the previous attempts was that the character they used (especially in the Milius film) was not Conan. Howard was clearly obsessed with the concept of personal freedom, and with the struggle of the self-relying individual chained by the rules of a society, of an oppressor, or of public opinion (as most clearly exemplified in his Esau Cairn character). His Conan would never, ever have tolerated to be a slave, or a gladiator. He would have died trying to escape first. Furthermore, he would never have let others dictate what his life would be; and the Milius character, for all that he knows an interesting evolution from complete boy-child to father-killer, is nothing at all like the actual Conan; the Milius guy is constantly letting others orient his destiny. The most recent cinematic interpretation did try to get the character closer to his source, but ultimately failed by tying him down with an oft-exploited vengence theme, which as in the Milius film does not reflect the spirit of freedom and oppotunism of the Howard creation. Maybe some day we’ll see a decent Conan on screen. We’ve seen flashes of him here and there, in a few scenes from (for exemple) Thief of Baghdad, The Scorpion King, and Rome. It is my belief that a TV series is more likely to delive the goods than a feature film, but careful optimism is the best I can muster right now! Give me Rome and the first 30 mn of the Millius flick, and this will be my favorite thing ever. I must say htat for once, I kind of strongly disagree with you on the Conan movie. The first (and strongest) arc is truely howardesque, with the cruelty of the randomness of life, and the forging of a mind and a body that is all about freedom in those times. The rest of the movie indeed sees Conan as relying on others and someties even naïve, but that was a logical development for that movie to tell a story that held its own. This is his formative and learning years after all... As for the comic book at Marvel, as it's now a given that Aaron is on board, anything short of Essad Ribic on interior art will be dismissed in favor of the Glenat books (which all look absolutely stunning, probably the best serialized Conan I've ever seen). As for Aaron's capacity at tackling sword n sorcery, I don't really see why one would judge this using his Dr Strange and Thor work when he did Weirdworld, which is THE true Sword and Sorcery marvel title he wrote, and did a mighty fine job at, didn't he? That being said, as much as I can enjoy him, I'm never really surprised by his ideas, so I must confess I'd rather have someone a little more adventureous, maybe even Chris Roberson... But please no more Roy Thomas dust-collecting fanboyism! I used to like the old Buscema books when I was a kid, but they now are some of the most painfull Conan books for me to read, only bested by the BWS (I loathe his conan serialized work, never understand how most of you guys can excuse all the anatomical shortcomings. Maybe it was just fascinting back then to see him draw all this grass?  ). Neal Adams would also be a horrible choice. If they want this to succeed, they need someone such as Ribic, a absolute beast of an artist, eye candy, great storytelling, and also a star. Adams or BWS would realistically only appeal to 50+ years old conservative fans, not the biggest show of confidance, right? Howard's work can be timeless, so Marvel need to move away from the old canon, be daring, like Glénat seem to now be, by Crom! |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Feb 12, 2018 10:28:38 GMT -5
Having read all of Howard's unaltered Conan stores, I agree with Roguefort that Howard's Conan (or the only Conan that matters) would NEVER tolerate a slave's existence. It's the major blemish on an otherwise great sword and sorcery movie. If that could be changed, I think most of what follows his misguided movie origin holds up to Howard Conan, at least in spirit.
Essad Ribic was born to draw Conan. I love that guys art. The problem I see is that proper Conan almost mandates an unapologetic Nietzschean philosophy (uber-existentialism, "toxic" masculinity and will to power/freedom) that's extremely anti-PC int today's rather confused age of reason.
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Post by berkley on Feb 12, 2018 12:32:13 GMT -5
BWS (I loathe his conan serialized work, never understand how most of you guys can excuse all the anatomical shortcomings. Maybe it was just fascinting back then to see him draw all this grass? Yeah! I did like that - seriously! And the "free" anatomy doesn't bother me at all - it,s the overall effect and atmosphere that works for me with BWS's stuff. I love everything about Ribic's artwork except for one thing: the blown-up, body-builder style physique that he gives some of his male heroes. It always detracts from my enjoyment when he does that. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 12, 2018 13:09:35 GMT -5
BWS (I loathe his conan serialized work, never understand how most of you guys can excuse all the anatomical shortcomings. Maybe it was just fascinting back then to see him draw all this grass? Yeah! I did like that - seriously! And the "free" anatomy doesn't bother me at all - it,s the overall effect and atmosphere that works for me with BWS's stuff. I love everything about Ribic's artwork except for one thing: the blown-up, body-builder style physique that he gives some of his male heroes. It always detracts from my enjoyment when he does that. At least that's a real honest answer, I like that. I can understand one would see this as somehow atmospheric... It's not that I mind "free" anatomy, but more that I constantly get to hear fans of his describe his style as realistic and very coherant. Now Storyteller BWS area I can find interesting, even some of his 80ies stuff, but the Conan stuff, I can't put aside that he wants to draw in a realistic style, is fascinated by pre raphaelite art, but doesn't have the skills to do so, and it all explodes in his face. About Ribic, I get what you're saying, and it might feel that way for me too, except I have many exemples of his art in my mind where he doesn't draw men necessarly that way. I didn't read it, bt I guess he didn't draw Reed Richards that way, did he? I have some old Vertigo stuff where he showcases an ability to draw any kind of body type. But then again, I guess that the average Marvel reader is really happy with the trope you describe. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 12, 2018 13:43:08 GMT -5
Yeah! I did like that - seriously! And the "free" anatomy doesn't bother me at all - it,s the overall effect and atmosphere that works for me with BWS's stuff. I love everything about Ribic's artwork except for one thing: the blown-up, body-builder style physique that he gives some of his male heroes. It always detracts from my enjoyment when he does that. At least that's a real honest answer, I like that. I can understand one would see this as somehow atmospheric... It's not that I mind "free" anatomy, but more that I constantly get to hear fans of his describe his style as realistic and very coherant. Now Storyteller BWS area I can find interesting, even some of his 80ies stuff, but the Conan stuff, I can't put aside that he wants to draw in a realistic style, is fascinated by pre raphaelite art, but doesn't have the skills to do so, and it all explodes in his face. About Ribic, I get what you're saying, and it might feel that way for me too, except I have many exemples of his art in my mind where he doesn't draw men necessarly that way. I didn't read it, bt I guess he didn't draw Reed Richards that way, did he? I have some old Vertigo stuff where he showcases an ability to draw any kind of body type. But then again, I guess that the average Marvel reader is really happy with the trope you describe. yeah, that's the thing - he's shown that he doesn't have to to do it, so it's apparently a deliberate choice when he draws or paints Thor, for example, in that way. He isn't the only one, of course - a lot of superhero artists do the same thing. Possibly, as you say, he's influenced by what he thinks the readership wants to see. Re BWS, I think he deliberately uses cartoonish elements in his Conan - the physiques and poses, for example, and often stylised faces:  Drawing a monthly or bi-monthly serial, I think there's always going to be some haste and sloppiness. the pre-Raphaelite influence I think becomes more prevalent in his later independent work - individual drawings, paintings, book covers, and so on - and to my untrained eyes it seems skillfull enough:  |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 12, 2018 14:09:43 GMT -5
It's already there since the begining, as his obsession with darwing the grass in such an unusually detailed way back then. When you see his work in the Studio book, you can see the progresion, but he aknowledges this as a starting point. That's why I always liked Wrightson and Jeff Jones better : Wrightson isn't trying to be others (appart from Gustav Doré in his later 70ies days), and Jones managed to do a good enough Klimt spoof that he could get away with, and escaping it by becoming more cartonish. But the whole lot was definitively on the art student side of things. Kaluta is weird, because he's closer to BWS? but at the same time attempts to be them all, and more than often fails because of that. But I love him anyways, sometimes |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2018 15:00:04 GMT -5
Looks like Glenat is not the only European publisher to dip into the Conan pool and challenge Marvel. Italian publisher Leviathan Labs is also producing new Conan comics in 2019 starting with an OGN sequel to Tower of the Elephant featuring a story about Yara escaping his imprisonment in the gem after Conan has become king of Aquilonia... some sample art...   Like the Glenat stuff, I would get it if it becomes available in the American market, even if it's not translated into English If someone did an English translatio, I would most definitely be all over it too. -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 8, 2018 15:49:51 GMT -5
Looks like Glenat is not the only European publisher to dip into the Conan pool and challenge Marvel. Italian publisher Leviathan Labs is also producing new Conan comics in 2019 starting with an OGN sequel to Tower of the Elephant featuring a story about Yara escaping his imprisonment in the gem after Conan has become king of Aquilonia... some sample art... Like the Glenat stuff, I would get it if it becomes available in the American market, even if it's not translated into English If someone did an English translatio, I would most definitely be all over it too. -M Wow! That looks stunning! I hope the art on the Marvel book is as moody. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 12:15:45 GMT -5
Ralph Macchio is going to be a consulting editor on the Marvel Conan books and appeared on a podcast recently where he revealed there will be three (3) Conan titles from Marvel in 2019, each set at a different stage of Conan's life. Apparently there have been internal discussions about trying to get Roy Thomas involved in one of these projects but no word if they actually reached out to him or if there is any real possibility of it happening. -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 10, 2018 12:09:48 GMT -5
Ralph Macchio is going to be a consulting editor on the Marvel Conan books and appeared on a podcast recently where he revealed there will be three (3) Conan titles from Marvel in 2019, each set at a different stage of Conan's life. Apparently there have been internal discussions about trying to get Roy Thomas involved in one of these projects but no word if they actually reached out to him or if there is any real possibility of it happening. -M Oh man, I'd love to see Thomas come back. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 12:13:15 GMT -5
Jason Aaron has hinted he will be writing Conan, so I assume he will be doing one book, but I don't know about the others. I would love to see the Thomas/Grindberg project that Dark Horse canned revived as one of the three books.
However, I would guess that the three are going to be:
Conan the Barbarian-set at the peak of Conan's career (my guess this is the Aaron book and the flagship book)
Conan the King-Conan when king of Aquilonia
Savage Sword of Conan-a book that tells arcs from different peirods by different creative teams in 6 issue arcs.
Just pure speculation, no basis other than wishful thinking.
-M
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 10, 2018 12:41:01 GMT -5
Jason Aaron has hinted he will be writing Conan, so I assume he will be doing one book, but I don't know about the others. I would love to see the Thomas/Grindberg project that Dark Horse canned revived as one of the three books. However, I would guess that the three are going to be: Conan the Barbarian-set at the peak of Conan's career (my guess this is the Aaron book and the flagship book) Conan the King-Conan when king of Aquilonia Savage Sword of Conan-a book that tells arcs from different peirods by different creative teams in 6 issue arcs. Just pure speculation, no basis other than wishful thinking. -M I'm down with all of that |
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). Neal Adams would also be a horrible choice. 
