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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 14:44:04 GMT -5
Have you ever encountered a "Frankensteined" copy of a book you were looking at buying? The topic came up at the show I attended this past weekend in context of a certain key book up for auction currently.
For those unfamiliar with the term-a "Frankensteiened" copy is a copy constructed from two or more lower grade copies to put together a higher grade copy using the best bits of the books. Undo the staples pull out the best folios and best cover and put together a new copy from the corpses of the old. It is supposed to be noted as restoration, but is often missed or overlooked by some grading services.
I don't go for high grade keys myself, but I am always interested in all aspects of the hobby and industry, and this weekend was the first I had heard of this technique, so I was curious how common it might be, if others had heard of or encountered books like this and what folks thoughts were on it.
I would have to guess caveat emptor applies here, but I would think it would be disheartening to find something wasn't quite what you thought it was.
-M
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 27, 2018 15:00:00 GMT -5
I have a couple of friends who do this, neither with the intention of defrauding anyone. It's done strictly for their personal collections. That's no guarantee, of course, that there aren't others out there more than happy to pass their Frankensteins off as the real deal.
Cei-U!
No emptoring your caveats around here, young man!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 27, 2018 15:01:22 GMT -5
I have no experience with "Frankensteined" comics, and had never even heard of the practice 'til now. However, I'm not sure I'd mind getting one of these books or even if I'd call it restoration. To me, restoration is a process using foreign materials that is done to books to improve their condition. This might be pressing, dry cleaning, colour touching, trimming or whatever. This "Frankensteining" is only swapping out like-for-like vintage elements. To strike a music/record collecting analogy (cause that's what I do  ), it's like having two first pressings of Sgt. Pepper -- one with a knackered sleeve, but a well looked after disc inside, the other with a trashed disc, but a well preserved sleeve -- and then swapping the discs inside the sleeves. If I bough the nice sleeve, with the good condition vinyl inside, it wouldn't matter a jot to me that the disc didn't come inside that particular sleeve when it left the factory in 1967. Both sleeve and disc would've rolled off the presses within the same first print run, possibly only hours apart anyway, so what's the difference? Same goes for a "Frankensteined" comic. It seems like a more authentic item to me than one that has been professionally restored. |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 27, 2018 15:28:18 GMT -5
I've seen it. It happens a lot more with GA books. because so many of them are incomplete, there are lots of copies that are coverless, or missing the centerfold, or missing the first wrap. Or other things, but those are the most common. So often people who have a complete copy but missing a cover or centerfold will try to find those pieces from other incomplete copies and marry them together.
I think it's cool, personally, though it will get a restored grade with a "married" notation if it's graded by CGC or other professionals. Frankenstein books will cost less as a result, but are worth more than the parts would have been separately.
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Post by batusi on Feb 27, 2018 15:43:28 GMT -5
Is it always noticeable/detectable to spot a "Frankensteined" copy? I would think the staples or pages that are uneven would be an obvious indicator.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 21:16:56 GMT -5
The Owner of the LCS can spot these comic books a mile away and will not accept them for possible trade in or resell. I don't care for these books at all and I don't consider them "originals" whatever they are and that's way I look at them.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 28, 2018 18:20:55 GMT -5
I always worry about this. To the best of my knowledge, it's never happened to me, but how would I know for sure? I've heard of experts and CGC (note I don't group those two together) being duped by this in the past.
I guess it shouldn't matter, but it also creates a lack of confidence in big ticket back issues. How often has that "How do I know?" factor prevented someone from buying an issue that was otherwise calling out their name?
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Feb 28, 2018 18:31:23 GMT -5
I have heard of this and like others here, I feel I would notice. But if someone has done that good of a job and sold me such a book, I am fine with it because every book I own I inspect and all have passed. Not that it takes much...I do generally prefer at least mid grade but if its an older (60s or older issue) or a key, I will be more forgiving. I have often thought of doing this for my own, as I have had a couple copies of issues where one had nice cover but was missing a value stamp and the other copy had a real rough cover but was nice inside. Sadly, I did not have guts to tear the books apart so I kept both copies . I wouldn't mind being Frankensteined though, provided the job was done well. What I don't like are reprinted covers on original interiors. That I would be very upset with. But if someone took the time to take an original cover that was nice and put it on an original interior, I would be happy if it were done very very well. Again, what are the tell-tale signs of this? Is the cover looser than normal? Do they replace the staples? I figure if they are good enough, they can re-use or use period staples to reattached through the same holes. If they had to make new holes along the spine, I would be a bit bothered. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 28, 2018 21:19:09 GMT -5
I can’t imagine ever possibly caring if a book was like this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 22:48:26 GMT -5
I have heard of this and like others here, I feel I would notice. But if someone has done that good of a job and sold me such a book, I am fine with it because every book I own I inspect and all have passed. Not that it takes much...I do generally prefer at least mid grade but if its an older (60s or older issue) or a key, I will be more forgiving. I have often thought of doing this for my own, as I have had a couple copies of issues where one had nice cover but was missing a value stamp and the other copy had a real rough cover but was nice inside. Sadly, I did not have guts to tear the books apart so I kept both copies . I wouldn't mind being Frankensteined though, provided the job was done well. What I don't like are reprinted covers on original interiors. That I would be very upset with. But if someone took the time to take an original cover that was nice and put it on an original interior, I would be happy if it were done very very well. Again, what are the tell-tale signs of this? Is the cover looser than normal? Do they replace the staples? I figure if they are good enough, they can re-use or use period staples to reattached through the same holes. If they had to make new holes along the spine, I would be a bit bothered. Depending how many books were used in the creation-interior pages would have varying degrees of whiteness, not all pages may have been cut the same if they came from different printing presses, so pages may have needed to be trimmed to make them uniform, the color on the various pages might be of different brightness since they came off the presses at different times or from different presses, not every page folio wrap may sit the same if one book had a spine roll and the other didn't, etc. etc. You wouldn't be able to notice any of that as a buyer once the book is slabbed though, and while Frankensteining itself might not be restoration, fixing some of the issues that arise from it may require various forms of restoration to get it to look like a singular book and not a mishmash from various sources. Most Frankensteining is much more involved than matching a cover with a single coverless copy, and each folio wrap is chosen from the best source. I'd likely never be in the market for a book worth enough to make such an endeavor worthwhile, but I have worked the other side of the table often enough to be interested in the thinking on books like this. -M |
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), it's like having two first pressings of Sgt. Pepper -- one with a knackered sleeve, but a well looked after disc inside, the other with a trashed disc, but a well preserved sleeve -- and then swapping the discs inside the sleeves. If I bough the nice sleeve, with the good condition vinyl inside, it wouldn't matter a jot to me that the disc didn't come inside that particular sleeve when it left the factory in 1967. Both sleeve and disc would've rolled off the presses within the same first print run, possibly only hours apart anyway, so what's the difference?
