Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958 
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Post by Crimebuster on Apr 6, 2018 16:11:12 GMT -5
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 6, 2018 21:26:05 GMT -5
Brave and the Bold # 50 - I've always heard that it mirrored World's Finest - Batman knock-off plus (at the time) Superman knock-off. I never thought of B & B and as a tryout book, except for the Teen Titans.
# 51 - Is a classic for the ages, you guys are wrong. Howard Purcell just destroys, the whole thing is beautiful with insanely great monster designs.
# 52 - Yeah, see you and raise. Best issue of B & B, period. HAUNTED Tanks shot down planes every time. Even Haunted Planes (See Next Episode.)
# 53 - Nice to see Iris COMPLETELY in character, but no acknowledegment of how Haney adhered to continuity. I basically love every panel of this, from the Atom's body language to the Flash's speed effects to the best drawing of Barry Allen EVER on page 3.
# 54 - Was the first appearance of the junior version of the JLA which had been being discussed for years in fanzines and the JLA letter Page. Seriously. This story has been promised f-o-r-e-v-e-r. I think that editorial intent trumps in-story continuity, and this is an obvious try-out for a series to anyone who was intently following DC's output at the time. So, first Teen Titans, IMO. (ALso, the strangest Bob Haney plot I have ever read. But Bruno Premiani grounds it surprisingly well. I think Preminani might be the best pure artist to ever work in superhero comics.)
# 55 - I mean, the Metal Men ALWAYS die, but this one was strangely disturbing. Ramona Fradon is the most Eisner-y artist of her generation.
# 56 - I don't own yet and is the only team-up book in the first 20 years of team-up books I've never read. I didn't know it had Hawkgirl in it. I might have to break down and order this off the internet, which is "cheating" for my team-up book collection. (I'm still missing some of the damn Harvey team-ups.)
I felt like the series went downhill after.. eh.. # 60 or so. B and B 51 - 60 were just world class artist after World class artist, and Murphy Anderson, Win Mortimer, Mike Sekowsky (who is brilliant on not superheroes) and George Papp just don't compare.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 8, 2018 14:32:46 GMT -5
I will have to make time to listen to this before I go to work. Maybe when I get back from walking the dogs.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2018 15:11:55 GMT -5
17:11 -- I doubt whatever you guys have to say about B&tB is going to fascinate me as much as MDG's inside perspective on Acclaim-era Valiant. I didn't realize they were soliciting the books before they'd even been fully plotted! 22:00 -- Weird how the strange sports concept comes back in the '70s, and not just at DC. Warren had a number of issues of Creepy and Eerie that followed the same theme. 41:24 -- THANK YOU for backing me up on this! And I still maintain this issue was more a promotion for the New Look Batman (via Robin) than a serious attempt to introduce a junior Justice League. A later letter page (I think in #60) indicates that there was no intention for these heroes to come back again as a team. 44:00 -- The Aqualad Desperation Score Card 48:00 -- Oh, it matters to me! 54:00 -- Wasn't that always the curious fate of Hawkgirl? She was equally prominent with Hawkman in their adventures but was always billed as a sidekick (if at all). |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 8, 2018 19:42:45 GMT -5
For such a bunch of mediocre comics, you put together a great episode! I read most of the B and B issues of Strange Sports Stories online last year and I especially love the one with the gorilla baseball players. And the cover of #47 ("The Phantom Prizefighter") shows up prominently in Kenneth Anger's short film "Scorpio Rising." I don't know a lot about Steranko's 1970s activities, but one thing I remember was a lot of really nice covers for paperback reprints of stories from The Shadow's pulp series. Moving on to The Brave and the Bold #50 to #56 ... I've read a few of these over the years, and I was thinking about reading all the issues between #50 and #73 using online resources because the issues I had already read were just so wacky and fun! But I only got so far before I let the project lapse because a lot of these are ... not good. Generally, if I really like one of the stars, then I can usually muster enough enthusiasm to get past the rough parts. It also helps if the story has a decent villain (like the Brotherhood of Evil in #65). #50 - This was reprinted a while back - the 1990s maybe? - and the only thing I remember is that it's not very good. I have no desire to re-read it to refresh my memory as to why. I'm usually a fan of the Martian Manhunter, but I can generate no enthusiasm for his Brave and Bold appearances. I think maybe it's because he's been stranded away from his supporting cast - No Zook following around admiringly, no pretty patrolwoman Diane Meade bursting into a burning building or falling off a cliff, no Captain Harding sitting behind his desk wondering if he should get sprinkles. #51 - I thought I'd read this one but I couldn't remember a thing about it until you guys started describing the plot. Yeah, the half-bird, half-fish thing. I usually like Aquaman but this story just seemed to squish all the charm right out of the character. I read this one very early on after I decided to read all the stories from #50 to #73, and it was a very long time before I decided to try again, skipping ahead to the Atom/Metal Men issue. #52 - I read this a while back when I was trying to read all of Mlle. Marie's Silver Age appearances. It's so much fun! #53 - It's just been a few weeks past that I was trying to start up the project again and I started this one. It's ... I think I read four or five pages and thought "Ugh, not tonight" and then never got back to it. #54 - I read this one a few years ago from Comixology and I didn't like it much. I also got the next one, the real first appearance of the Teen Titans, and I like that one a lot better, mostly because Wonder Girl is HILARIOUS. #55 - This one worked for me because I love the Metal Men, and Platinum is one of my favorite Silver Age characters. What a wacko! I have mixed feelings about the Atom but when the story is working for me (like this one did), I really like him. (I saw Bob Haney on a panel at the San Diego Comic-Con (late 1990s) and somebody asked him what his favorite Brave and the Bold story was. He answered: "The Batman/Atom team-up in #115!") #56 - I read this one just before listening to the podcast. Nice art from Bernard Bailey. Overall, this Flash/Martian Manhunter team-up wasn't as bad as #51 or #53 ... but still not very good. I should get back to #53 soon just for the Alex Toth art. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 9, 2018 1:34:03 GMT -5
I'm glad you guys are reviewing these issues. It will give me a reason to give them another try.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 9, 2018 2:09:55 GMT -5
I just finished #53 - The Flash and the Atom - and the most striking thing is how awful Iris is. I think Barry and Doc Magnus should trade girlfriends so that Barry could learn what it's like to have an attentive and loving (if a bit obsessive) girlfriend and maybe Doc would learn to appreciate Platinum after a few days hanging around with Iris.
Nice Alex Toth art.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 9, 2018 15:20:11 GMT -5
As for The Metal Men ... I love them. And I would have loved them in 1964 if I had been reading the series, but I was born in March of that year and wasn't reading comics for a few years yet. Surprisingly, The Metal Men was a wildly popular comic book! I came across this when I was looking into Batman sales figures (which are not on this list, unfortunately) and it's always been a wonder to me. This is Comichron's list of comic book sales for 1964 ... and The Metal Men is at #14! 1964 Comic Book Sale Figures(I was just scrolling ahead a bit and found that, in 1966 (the first year that Amazing Spider-Man is listed), The Metal Men is at #12 and The Amazing Spider-Man is at #16. The Brave and the Bold is at #26.) |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 9, 2018 19:56:05 GMT -5
I read #57 (first Metamorpho) and #59 (Batman and Green Lantern) today. I'm happy to say these are both much better than some of the stories that made me give up on mid-1960s issues of The Brave and the Bold for a while. Such nice Ramona Fradon art in both! Although the Time Commander's plan for getting rid of the heroes after they are defeated ... but I guess I can wait for Part Two of the discussion before going into THAT! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 10, 2018 13:07:35 GMT -5
I'm having really good luck with the next batch of Brave and the Bold. I read #57, #58, #59, #60 and #63 over the last two days. I was going to try and alternate the issues that look good (or that I know are good because I've read some of these before) with the issues that look like they might be pretty bad, but #59 turned out to be very enjoyable and then, I decided I didn't want to get too far ahead of myself by skipping past #65. (I have #65 and I know it's good. And I think #64 (Batman and Eclipso) has the potential to be pretty awesome.)
I skipped #61 and #62 because I've read them both a bunch of times. But they are awesome! I'm thinking of reading them both once more before moving on to #64.
And #63 ... it's wonderfully HILARIOUS! Sexist and condescending and stupid and silly ... but HILARIOUS!
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Post by comicsandwho on Apr 10, 2018 15:13:58 GMT -5
As for The Metal Men ... I love them. And I would have loved them in 1964 if I had been reading the series, but I was born in March of that year and wasn't reading comics for a few years yet. Surprisingly, The Metal Men was a wildly popular comic book! I came across this when I was looking into Batman sales figures (which are not on this list, unfortunately) and it's always been a wonder to me. This is Comichron's list of comic book sales for 1964 ... and The Metal Men is at #14! 1964 Comic Book Sale Figures(I was just scrolling ahead a bit and found that, in 1966 (the first year that Amazing Spider-Man is listed), The Metal Men is at #12 and The Amazing Spider-Man is at #16. The Brave and the Bold is at #26.) I'll have to dig into the MM at some point. Just the other day, on a 'Silver and Bronze Age Marvel'-themed group on Facebook, there was a long discussion of Ross Andru's Spider-man artwork...started by some guy who hated it, and played the 'I can't be the only one who feels this way' card(Aside from one other fellow mental patient who agreed, the response was overwhelmingly pro-Andru). The only justification the guy had for disliking Andru's art was basically 'He used to draw the Metal Men!' |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 10, 2018 16:10:07 GMT -5
As for The Metal Men ... I love them. And I would have loved them in 1964 if I had been reading the series, but I was born in March of that year and wasn't reading comics for a few years yet. Surprisingly, The Metal Men was a wildly popular comic book! I came across this when I was looking into Batman sales figures (which are not on this list, unfortunately) and it's always been a wonder to me. This is Comichron's list of comic book sales for 1964 ... and The Metal Men is at #14! 1964 Comic Book Sale Figures(I was just scrolling ahead a bit and found that, in 1966 (the first year that Amazing Spider-Man is listed), The Metal Men is at #12 and The Amazing Spider-Man is at #16. The Brave and the Bold is at #26.) I'll have to dig into the MM at some point. Just the other day, on a 'Silver and Bronze Age Marvel'-themed group on Facebook, there was a long discussion of Ross Andru's Spider-man artwork...started by some guy who hated it, and played the 'I can't be the only one who feels this way' card(Aside from one other fellow mental patient who agreed, the response was overwhelmingly pro-Andru). The only justification the guy had for disliking Andru's art was basically 'He used to draw the Metal Men!' That's just dumb. Andru's work on Metal Men is a reason to like everything he ever did, up to and including all those wondrously dingdong-y Wonder Family stories in Wonder Woman during the Kanigher era. |
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Post by brutalis on Apr 10, 2018 16:20:04 GMT -5
Another stupendous Podcast. Thanks to MDG and Crimebuster for their efforts. The early B & B are very overlooked and while silly and possibly oversimplified they reflect the time and readership. As a teen when I found these I was overjoyed. If I were reading as a youngster at the time of publication they would have been perfect summer time reads. This is the way superheroic's should be portrayed with bright colors and silly fun and eager excitement and NOT the over the top ant-heroic dark and depressing world that they have been in for many years now. Don't mind a few noir and realistic comics, just don't need them all to be that way. About Steranko: I am one of those who can appreciate what he has done and his ability to create new and intriguing artwork but as a creator he has walked all over his career living off his initial creativity. I hope that all his work outside comics was financially successful enough to support him but anymore when I see him at convention he looks and sounds like a used care salesman living off his past accomplishments who is looking for the next big sale to support him. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 10, 2018 20:25:13 GMT -5
As for The Metal Men ... I love them. And I would have loved them in 1964 if I had been reading the series, but I was born in March of that year and wasn't reading comics for a few years yet. Surprisingly, The Metal Men was a wildly popular comic book! I came across this when I was looking into Batman sales figures (which are not on this list, unfortunately) and it's always been a wonder to me. This is Comichron's list of comic book sales for 1964 ... and The Metal Men is at #14! 1964 Comic Book Sale Figures(I was just scrolling ahead a bit and found that, in 1966 (the first year that Amazing Spider-Man is listed), The Metal Men is at #12 and The Amazing Spider-Man is at #16. The Brave and the Bold is at #26.) I'll have to dig into the MM at some point. Just the other day, on a 'Silver and Bronze Age Marvel'-themed group on Facebook, there was a long discussion of Ross Andru's Spider-man artwork...started by some guy who hated it, and played the 'I can't be the only one who feels this way' card(Aside from one other fellow mental patient who agreed, the response was overwhelmingly pro-Andru). The only justification the guy had for disliking Andru's art was basically 'He used to draw the Metal Men!' Weeelllll... As much as I like the Spider-Man vs. Superman treasury, I never liked Andru on Spider-man proper. He was - at his core - a cartoonist, and try as he might he never effectively emulated the John Buscema derived '70s Marvel house style. The anatomy was wonky, the action sequences fell flat. But he was a cartoonist, so he was a perfect fit for Metal Men.  |
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Post by comicsandwho on Apr 11, 2018 0:34:42 GMT -5
Meh, as long as nobody is drawn with Liefeldian foot deformities, the art never detracts from my enjoyment of the squiggly things in the white bubbles above everybody's heads.
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