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Post by Cheswick on May 11, 2018 11:25:19 GMT -5
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Post by rberman on May 11, 2018 22:10:30 GMT -5
I just realized that the Jessica Jones TV series has an inhaler-based power enhancing drug that must be based on Kick. Chalk another win for Morrison!
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 11, 2018 22:15:19 GMT -5
Wow, that's alot of characters that were never seen again!
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Post by rberman on May 11, 2018 22:25:37 GMT -5
Wow, that's alot of characters that were never seen again! Well, most of them were either students in the crowd, Shi’ar, or people in a now-aborted apocalyptic future. A few died. The main ongoing new characters were the Cuckoos, Cassandra, and I guess Quentin Quire. I want more of Herman and Martha Johannson.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 12, 2018 0:49:10 GMT -5
Wow, that's alot of characters that were never seen again! Yeah, because all the mutants lost their powers right after the Morrison run. Which was, on the whole, a good decision. I *love* Morrison's X-men but... Look, the appeal of the X-men were that - under Claremont and successors - they were the most adolescent of superheroes. "I feel so different! Nobody understands me-e-e-e-e-! I'm so alone!" I have emotions and the narrative takes my emotions incredibly seriously, mirroring the adolescent mind-set and very, very, different than (say) Stan Lee's superhero stuff, which had a lot more tongue in cheek and had a lot more adult ironic distance. (I talk about this a lot when the X-men come up.) Morrison ran with the metaphor of X-men as minority group, but he made it really hard to do stories about the X-men as metaphor for hormonal adolescence. And, honestly, I think the latter is more important to the franchise. X-men under Morrison became a lot more intellectual and a lot less emotional - or a lot more complex in it's emotional appeal and much less a simple teenage fantasy. Which was probably the wrong direction for the franchise. I mean *I* liked it, but I was out of the age where I needed media to pat me on the hand and validate my teenage emotions.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 12, 2018 0:54:07 GMT -5
Also, Morrison always seems to design his superhero stuff to have franchise potential, and to plant seeds for other writers.
And then other writers basically never use his set-ups. He's incredibly influential on mainstream comic writers in terms of style of storytelling and tone but nobody seems to want to borrow his ideas.
This might be because he doesn't seem to have much use for continuity, and rarely seems to use other current comic writer's work as a springboard. When he took over the X-men he basically said "Listen, I'm not reading this crap that came before me. If the editors really need me to tie up some plot points I'll do it, but it might take me a while."
Shockingly, his run was really, really unpopular among quite a few established X-men fans.
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Post by Cheswick on May 12, 2018 3:03:51 GMT -5
Also, Morrison always seems to design his superhero stuff to have franchise potential, and to plant seeds for other writers. And then other writers basically never use his set-ups. He's incredibly influential on mainstream comic writers in terms of style of storytelling and tone but nobody seems to want to borrow his ideas. This might be because he doesn't seem to have much use for continuity, and rarely seems to use other current comic writer's work as a springboard. When he took over the X-men he basically said "Listen, I'm not reading this crap that came before me. If the editors really need me to tie up some plot points I'll do it, but it might take me a while." Shockingly, his run was really, really unpopular among quite a few established X-men fans. I can see that. A segment of X-Fans seem to like the same stories/ideas recycled. I guess there is some sense of comfort in that? But, as a recently-returned reader, it was exactly what I was looking for: Familiar characters and concepts balanced with new and creative approaches and ideas. This was one of the books that made it an exciting time to get back into comics.
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Post by rberman on May 12, 2018 6:41:57 GMT -5
Wow, that's alot of characters that were never seen again! Yeah, because all the mutants lost their powers right after the Morrison run. Which was, on the whole, a good decision. I *love* Morrison's X-men but... Look, the appeal of the X-men were that - under Claremont and successors - they were the most adolescent of superheroes. "I feel so different! Nobody understands me-e-e-e-e-! I'm so alone!" I have emotions and the narrative takes my emotions incredibly seriously, mirroring the adolescent mind-set and very, very, different than (say) Stan Lee's superhero stuff, which had a lot more tongue in cheek and had a lot more adult ironic distance. (I talk about this a lot when the X-men come up.) Morrison ran with the metaphor of X-men as minority group, but he made it really hard to do stories about the X-men as metaphor for hormonal adolescence. And, honestly, I think the latter is more important to the franchise. X-men under Morrison became a lot more intellectual and a lot less emotional - or a lot more complex in it's emotional appeal and much less a simple teenage fantasy. Which was probably the wrong direction for the franchise. I mean *I* liked it, but I was out of the age where I needed media to pat me on the hand and validate my teenage emotions. There are some interesting ideas to discuss here, but I'm reluctant to get into it at this point when only half the reviews of the Morrison era have been posted. It will be easier to comment on after discussing where he went. For the moment, I'll just note that Morrison does spend a good bit of time with two different groups of angsty adolescent mutants in the form of Quentin Quire's New X-Men, and Xorn's Special Class. These correspond roughly to the Freaks and Geeks of the TV show by that name.
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Post by rberman on May 12, 2018 7:18:25 GMT -5
New X-Men #138 “The Prime of Miss Emma Frost” (May 2003)
The Story: Beast, Cyclops, and Xorn immobilize Herman before he can reach the civilian bus he was chasing last issue. This wraps up the threat of Quentin Quire's Omega Gang. Sophie did not survive her Kick-enhanced battle with Quentin Quire, and the other four Stepford Cuckoos announce their intention to leave Emma Frost’s tutelage in favor of a new mentor in Switzerland. Emma immediately latches onto Angel Salvadore (whose surname we did not previously know) to be her latest Eliza Doolittle. Quentin himself is raving insanely. Charles Xavier call for Xorn to use his healing powers; instead, Xorn shines light from the star inside his head on Quentin… killing him? Apparently so, because Xavier announces to the protesting students that Quentin has been “liberated from his physical cocoon and born into a higher world.” Xavier also announces that he is re-thinking his “peaceful integration with humanity” approach to life, and will be stepping down as headmaster. The Cuckoos, Angel, and Beak receive special honors at the graduation ceremony. Angel gives Beak a prize of her own, in the form of news that he has made her pregnant. Emma and Scott are still meeting mentally for telepathic trysts; she continues to present herself as Dark Phoenix to his mind. Emma finally discovers what Scott is so tense about: Since his possession by En Sabah Nur, he’s been having kinkier sexual urges that he doesn’t feel comfortable sharing with his wife. The Stepford Cuckoos, still looking for ways to get back at Emma for Sophie’s death, tell Jean Grey-Summers that her husband is committing telepathic adultery with Emma. Jean finds Scot in the rose garden and steps into Emma’s mind to confront the two. This is not going to go well… My Two Cents: You know how Fantomex was a pastiche of European detective/spy characters, and Morrison was not shy about making his allusions front-and-center for those who were familiar with his source material? The title “The Prime of Miss Emma Frost” does the same thing for his version of Emma Frost. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the 1969 film "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie": The book/movie (also written for the stage in between) also features one of the Brodie Set being partially estranged from the others, one of the Brodie Set dying for putting into practice Miss Brodie's romantic ideas of adventurism, a married co-worker who is inappropriately attached to Miss Brodie, and the schoolgirls learning of the affair and tattling on their mentor. To sum it up: Pretty much the entire Emma/Cuckoo plot thread of Grant Morrison's New X-Men is an adaptation of this British movie from 30 years prior. Moves like this are hardly unprecedented in comic books, and certainly not in X-Men. Still, it seems bold of Morrison to make the origin of his material as "in your face" as he does with the title of this issue, which is quite distinctive and sent me scurrying to the internet, where the twin oracles of Google and Wikipedia immediately pulled the curtain back on his designs. That aside: this is a mop-up issue, winding down from the heavy action of the last few, and heavy on soap suds. But it left me with questions. • Did Xorn really kill Quentin Quire just for being loony after suffering a telepathic attack while high on drugs? There’s some discussion that Querntin may be experiencing a “secondary mutation” like how Beast went blue and furry, and Emma gained her diamond form ability. Maybe he is. Or maybe he’ll recover from the psi-attack just like lots of other people have in the past. (Mastermind, Emma Frost, etc.) That doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that Xorn would do, or a measure of which Xavier would approve. If that’s not how we’re supposed to read those pages, then I am missing something big. • What is the time-frame of the Quentin Quire story? Angel and Beak first kissed in #131, and at the time she was playing that she wasn’t really interested in him. The first time we actually see them together was #136 in the woods, and that encounter was interrupted by a U-Man attack. Apparently somewhere along the way they have consummated their relationship, and then enough time has passed for her to know that she’s pregnant. I guess more time has passed during and between these issues than I realized, since this issue takes place at the end of the school year. • How did the Cuckoos know about Emma’s telepathic affair with Scott? Is she either nonchalant or careless enough that they discovered it interacting with her? Did they read Scott’s mind at some point? I can imagine it being difficult for telepathic teenagers not to go snooping, but I bet all the students and X-Men have at least rudimentary anti-psi training. Seems like we missed an importent beat in this story.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2018 10:36:03 GMT -5
I just realized that the Jessica Jones TV series has an inhaler-based power enhancing drug that must be based on Kick. Chalk another win for Morrison! That’s actually MGH, a drug that was a big part of the Jessica Jones comic book written by michael Bendis (Alias). Now I can’t say which came first, Kick of MGH, since both were introduced at about the same time in the comics... but as far as the TV show goes, I’d suspect that it was just using material from the Alias comic and not trying to rip off Morrison.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2018 10:43:59 GMT -5
Wow, that's alot of characters that were never seen again! Yeah, because all the mutants lost their powers right after the Morrison run. Which was, on the whole, a good decision. I *love* Morrison's X-men but... Look, the appeal of the X-men were that - under Claremont and successors - they were the most adolescent of superheroes. "I feel so different! Nobody understands me-e-e-e-e-! I'm so alone!" I have emotions and the narrative takes my emotions incredibly seriously, mirroring the adolescent mind-set and very, very, different than (say) Stan Lee's superhero stuff, which had a lot more tongue in cheek and had a lot more adult ironic distance. (I talk about this a lot when the X-men come up.) Morrison ran with the metaphor of X-men as minority group, but he made it really hard to do stories about the X-men as metaphor for hormonal adolescence. And, honestly, I think the latter is more important to the franchise. X-men under Morrison became a lot more intellectual and a lot less emotional - or a lot more complex in it's emotional appeal and much less a simple teenage fantasy.Which was probably the wrong direction for the franchise. I mean *I* liked it, but I was out of the age where I needed media to pat me on the hand and validate my teenage emotions. Very true. The subtext of Morrison’s X-Men was no longer hormonal adolescence and much more identity politics.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 12, 2018 14:08:18 GMT -5
Also, Morrison always seems to design his superhero stuff to have franchise potential, and to plant seeds for other writers. And then other writers basically never use his set-ups. He's incredibly influential on mainstream comic writers in terms of style of storytelling and tone but nobody seems to want to borrow his ideas. This might be because he doesn't seem to have much use for continuity, and rarely seems to use other current comic writer's work as a springboard. When he took over the X-men he basically said "Listen, I'm not reading this crap that came before me. If the editors really need me to tie up some plot points I'll do it, but it might take me a while." Shockingly, his run was really, really unpopular among quite a few established X-men fans. Like you said, it was a pretty big departure. There have always been bits of Mutants-as-minority-group, but Morrison seems to have ramped that up. And it's not like they didn't use any of it... the Scott-Emma relationship became standard, Quentin is a major character now (though admitedly he's not the same as he seems here), as are the Cuckoos. I've always thought Morrison was a fan of continuity, but just the bits HE liked.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 12, 2018 16:43:07 GMT -5
I've been ready this thread with interest. I liked the Morrison run but it started off real strong and I never got to the end of colllecting it because the artwork got worse with each arc. Quietly and Sciver were great but Kordy was terrible and I didn't really like Paul and the George Perez clone.
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Post by rberman on May 12, 2018 17:33:46 GMT -5
Also, Morrison always seems to design his superhero stuff to have franchise potential, and to plant seeds for other writers. And then other writers basically never use his set-ups. He's incredibly influential on mainstream comic writers in terms of style of storytelling and tone but nobody seems to want to borrow his ideas. This might be because he doesn't seem to have much use for continuity, and rarely seems to use other current comic writer's work as a springboard. When he took over the X-men he basically said "Listen, I'm not reading this crap that came before me. If the editors really need me to tie up some plot points I'll do it, but it might take me a while." Shockingly, his run was really, really unpopular among quite a few established X-men fans. Like you said, it was a pretty big departure. There have always been bits of Mutants-as-minority-group, but Morrison seems to have ramped that up. And it's not like they didn't use any of it... the Scott-Emma relationship became standard, Quentin is a major character now (though admitedly he's not the same as he seems here), as are the Cuckoos. I've always thought Morrison was a fan of continuity, but just the bits HE liked. And really, this is the best approach. Continuity should be a resource for potential story elements, not a straightjacket. They retcon all the time anyways, and it would be nice if they didn't feel obliged to make a story to justify each retcon. Sometimes they don't anyway. It's not like Nick Fury is still a veteran of WW2.
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Post by rberman on May 12, 2018 17:41:14 GMT -5
I just realized that the Jessica Jones TV series has an inhaler-based power enhancing drug that must be based on Kick. Chalk another win for Morrison! That’s actually MGH, a drug that was a big part of the Jessica Jones comic book written by michael Bendis (Alias). Now I can’t say which came first, Kick of MGH, since both were introduced at about the same time in the comics... but as far as the TV show goes, I’d suspect that it was just using material from the Alias comic and not trying to rip off Morrison. Apparently Gerry Conway came up with Mutant Growth Hormone (MGH) back in 1972 as an invention of Hank McCoy. It was subsequently renamed IGH, which is the name it has on the Jessica Jones TV show. So this is maybe a missed opportunity for Morrison to tie Kick into Marvel continuity. Maybe IGH doesn't make its users as insane as Kick does?
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