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Post by Batflunkie on May 18, 2018 20:07:31 GMT -5
Just got done glossing over the preview for the upcoming Black Panther re-launcher and I'm a bit bothered by it. Not that having T'Challa as a space slave warrior ala John Carter is a bad thing, if anything it just adds to what Don McGregor was trying to do in Jungle Action. As a fan of a "certain company that tried to do Marvel one better in the 90's", It's impossible for me not to see the very evident, almost glaring similarities between it and Matt Kindt's current on-going on X-O Manowar. This isn't the first time Marvel has done something like this either. Midway through Aaron's Jane Foster Thor run was "Unworthy Thor" who bore an incredibly striking similarity to the design of post- 2012 Eternal Warrior
It's just the whole Defiant "Plasm" lawsuit all over again and I sincerely doubt that Valiant actually has the kind of collateral to pony up for a court case
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 19, 2018 8:24:04 GMT -5
Just got done glossing over the preview for the upcoming Black Panther re-launcher and I'm a bit bothered by it. Not that having T'Challa as a space slave warrior ala John Carter is a bad thing, if anything it just adds to what Don McGregor was trying to do in Jungle Action. As a fan of a "certain company that tried to do Marvel one better in the 90's", It's impossible for me not to see the very evident, almost glaring similarities between it and Matt Kindt's current on-going on X-O Manowar. This isn't the first time Marvel has done something like this either. Midway through Aaron's Jane Foster Thor run was "Unworthy Thor" who bore an incredibly striking similarity to the design of post- 2012 Eternal Warrior
It's just the whole Defiant "Plasm" lawsuit all over again and I sincerely doubt that Valiant actually has the kind of collateral to pony up for a court case
The defiant lawsuit was definitely just sticking it to Shooter, so no argument there but I don't really see the Unworthy Thor comparison to the Eternal Warrior...I mean his costume in that iteration was a hooded cloak, a gladiator style arm band and a tunic which is all very generic barbarian attire which is what Aaron was going for. Haven't read X-O in a while so I can't say anything there, but I definitely don't see it with Thor.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 9:55:11 GMT -5
My feeling is "there is nothing new under the sun". There are so many imitators in pop culture that it doesn't bother me. It is all in the execution of the concept/idea.
Examples: Alan Moore's Supreme. A copy of Silver Age Superman. I doubt DC would have let him tell this story as his relationship was rocky with DC after Watchmen. But it was so enjoyable (for me) that I didn't care. Also Casey's Majestic told some of the best Superman stories that would not have been done at DC at that time.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 20, 2018 5:29:29 GMT -5
As long as it's an imaginative twist on an old concept, I can enjoy it. When Supreme originally came out at Image, it was one of the first " evil Superman" books and it was kind of fresh. Since then, there are dozens of those types of characters. It became like beating a dead horse.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 20, 2018 8:34:20 GMT -5
As long as it's an imaginative twist on an old concept, I can enjoy it. When Supreme originally came out at Image, it was one of the first " evil Superman" books and it was kind of fresh. Since then, there are dozens of those types of characters. It became like beating a dead horse. That's kind of what I liked about Prime from the Malibu Ultraverse, he was kind of a more modern interpretation of Captain Marvel/Shazam. Not to say that Power Of Shazam wasn't, but I kind of prefer it when Fawcett City is perpetually stuck in the 1940's. Apparently Gerald Jones recently got prison time for being a "kiddie diddler" which explains why allusions to pedophilia are made about every other page. Honestly just thought that it was Jones making light of John Bryne's rumored off-hand comments saying that he "wished the age of consent was lower"
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Post by Cei-U! on May 20, 2018 9:45:12 GMT -5
As long as it's an imaginative twist on an old concept, I can enjoy it. When Supreme originally came out at Image, it was one of the first " evil Superman" books and it was kind of fresh. Since then, there are dozens of those types of characters. It became like beating a dead horse. That's kind of what I liked about Prime from the Malibu Ultraverse, he was kind of a more modern interpretation of Captain Marvel/Shazam. Not to say that Power Of Shazam wasn't, but I kind of prefer it when Fawcett City is perpetually stuck in the 1940's. Apparently Gerald Jones recently got prison time for being a "kiddie diddler" which explains why allusions to pedophilia are made about every other page. Honestly just thought that it was Jones making light of John Bryne's rumored off-hand comments saying that he "wished the age of consent was lower" Jones pled guilty to possession and distribution of child pornography which, while heinous enough in its own right, is not the same as being a hands-on pedophile. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for July, so he has not yet received any prison time.
Cei-U! I summon the lowdown!
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Post by Icctrombone on May 20, 2018 12:28:17 GMT -5
The crime of child porn/ child molestation is the worst crime you can commit. You can even find a reason for murder , but messing with kids ?
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Post by Batflunkie on May 20, 2018 22:07:07 GMT -5
The crime of child porn/ child molestation is the worst crime you can commit. You can even find a reason for murder, but messing with kids ? It's kind the reason why I minored in psychology/sociology in college, to get a better understanding of some of the more perverse parts of the human psyche. I'm aware that pedophilia is something that's been going on for literal centuries, but you'd think that this would be something that we'd have a far better understanding of by now
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Post by Icctrombone on May 21, 2018 4:31:48 GMT -5
The crime of child porn/ child molestation is the worst crime you can commit. You can even find a reason for murder, but messing with kids ? It's kind the reason why I minored in psychology/sociology in college, to get a better understanding of some of the more perverse parts of the human psyche. I'm aware that pedophilia is something that's been going on for literal centuries, but you'd think that this would be something that we'd have a far better understanding of by now My understanding is that if you have urges to do this type of thing, it never goes away. No rehabbing pedophilia.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 21, 2018 7:42:13 GMT -5
It's kind the reason why I minored in psychology/sociology in college, to get a better understanding of some of the more perverse parts of the human psyche. I'm aware that pedophilia is something that's been going on for literal centuries, but you'd think that this would be something that we'd have a far better understanding of by now My understanding is that if you have urges to do this type of thing, it never goes away. No rehabbing pedophilia. Not wanting to derail the thread, but Icc's post above touches on a real problem because a pedophile's sexuality is just hardwired that way. And you'll never change someones' sexuality. It's like the law trying to stop me from finding women attractive; it's never gonna happen. Not in a million years. So, society has a real problem where pedophilia is concerned because, on the one hand, obviously children need to be protected from predatory pedophiles, but, on the other, if the perpetrators are led to break the law by their own natural sexual urges, which they clearly can't help having, is it right for society to demonise them as much as we currently do? This problem is added to by the fact that awareness of and prosecutions for pedophilia have both risen steeply over the last 20 years, and as a result, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that there are a LOT more pedophiles in society than anyone would've guessed a couple of decades ago. And my feeling is that what we've still only seen the tip of the iceberg. Clearly convicted pedophiles need to be locked away in order to protect the underage population, but my feeling is that, as time goes on -- and with the instances of pedophilia prosecutions continuing to rise -- society will eventually have to start regarding pedophilia as a psychological illness or an undesirable biological condition, rather than a disgusting sexual kink...with the perpetrators of pedophilia needing care and help, rather than the demonisation and condemnation that they currently receive. I just don't see how society has any other choice. Remember, it's not that long ago that the mentally ill or those suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder were shunned by society and incarcerated in asylums. I think we will have to find a more pragmatic and compassionate way of dealing with pedophiles eventually.
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Post by mikelmidnight on May 21, 2018 12:14:09 GMT -5
Confessor, the other problem is that because the stigma against pedophilia is so high, an ethical, moral pedophile ... one who would never in a million years do something inappropriate to a child ... has no incentive to self-identify in a public way. Which means there's not much general perspective on healthy ways to deal with it.
(and I am not saying that the stigma shouldn't be there)
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 16, 2019 11:18:02 GMT -5
Statistically, paedophilia is not a natural sexual urge; it is the end result of sexual abuse. Overwhelmingly, perpetrators of sexual abuse were also victims of it. In most cases, they fixate on children who are the age of when they were sexually abused, perpetuating the cycle. The difference between them and other survivors is very hard to gauge and is a big focus of those professionals who try to treat survivors of abuse and the perpetrators of it. Why does one grow up to be a (relatively) healthy adult while the other becomes a predator? Is it related to how systematic the abuse was, if there was intervention and treatment or some other factor that came into the life of one, but not the other? Far more questions, than answers.
The 4th series of the Prime Suspect detective series, with Helen Mirren, had an episode that explored this, as Tennison investigates a child abduction and murder, that seems to be linked to a convicted pedophile. What she finds is that the case is not so clear cut, nor is child sexual abuse and she discovers that one of her team was a survivor of abuse and is, thus, overly aggressive in his investigation, to the point of endangering other children. In the course of the story, Tennison consults with a psychologist who explains the psyche of the perpetrator and the difficulty in treating such things, as well as the lack of documentation about healthy survivors of abuse. It followed on the heels of the third series, which featured "rent boys," (adolescent male prostitutes and drug addicts) and a pedophile ring that was exploiting them. Lot of dark material there.
Getting back to the original focus of the thread, imitation goes to far when it is mere copy, with nothing new to offer, in my opinion. All literature draws upon past work and there is little original, under the sun. Prime is a good example as it reworked the basic concept of Captain Marvel, while giving it a more sci-fi bent. It also delved into a darker, more realistic world than the flights of fantasy that typified the Golden Age Captain Marvel stories. By contrast, many of the original Image offerings were just cookie-cutter copies of X-men and the like and never really grew into something of their own. The stuff that did, like Savage Dragon, had either origins before Image or were turned over to someone else, who added the missing ingredient (like Warren Ellis, on Stormwatch). Some, like The Maxx, were more original ideas, in genre clothing.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 29, 2019 0:37:16 GMT -5
Statistically, paedophilia is not a natural sexual urge; it is the end result of sexual abuse. Overwhelmingly, perpetrators of sexual abuse were also victims of it. In most cases, they fixate on children who are the age of when they were sexually abused, perpetuating the cycle. Again, not wanting to derail the thread, but just to say that the above is very out of date thinking and has largely been discredited. The "abused becoming the abuser" theory was the accepted wisdom when it came to paedophiles 10 or 20 years ago, but modern research along with the sky-rocketing number of paedophile cases has pretty much overturned the idea. Recent figures show that less than 10% of paedophile sex offenders have a confirmed history of child sex abuse themselves. Current thinking among psychologists, social workers and law enforcement is that paedophilia is either an unusual sexual orientation or that it's a mental health issue, and should therefore be treated with mental health support. Someone who has been abused going on to sexually abuse others is actually a fairly rare outcome of sexual victimisation.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 29, 2019 17:38:48 GMT -5
The way I see it is this... Irrespective of their biological or mental imperative to act on it they hide it(desire, the act, images etc) because they know its illegal, and wrong(even if only in the eyes of the rest of society). Therefore by acting on the impulse, they are choosing to do wrong. I know that smoking weed is wrong or illegal, so regardless of my own opinion of that any time I choose to get high I choose to break the law.
I get that mental health issues aren't that simple, that sufferers need help, but I refuse to put the rights of a pedophile over that of a child. Sometimes these discussions come down to sympathy for the devil, where is the sympathy for the innocent.
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