|
|
Post by tarkintino on Dec 19, 2019 11:10:59 GMT -5
Of all of the fantasy films announced for 2020, this is the only must-see of the lot. The first WW film was absolutely great and for the first time, a believable actress as Wonder Woman was put before cameras, as Cathy Lee Crosby, Lynda Carter and Adrianne Palicki all left too much to be desired / never lived up to the character's potential.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 13:20:29 GMT -5
Wonder Woman: 1984 to be released in BOTH theaters and HBO Max on December 25th in the United States.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 23:19:00 GMT -5
ok. . spoiler free take on WW84
(which thanks to the new giant TV we just got (75" with HBO Max preinstalled, and free since we already pay for HBO via cable), was just like watching it on a Movie Screen anyways).
Overall, it's decent. It's not *great* (certainly not as good as the 1st one), and I'd honestly give it a grade of "C+" - but it's worth seeing, even with several issues.
Pros:
- the design of the film/characters, and overall set design is fantastic.
- the acting is (for the most part) very good, and Kristen Wiig impressed me as Cheetah - I wasn't fully onboard, and early on was a bit concerned. But she really pulls it off.
- multiple moments of "oh wow" - many straight from the WW comics, that gave me joy out of nowhere. Stay thru the credits, for one of those moments.
Cons:
- at 2 1/2 hours, it's much too long, and multiple "tone setting" scenes should have been dropped, as they slow the plot down to a crawl
- there is a serious lack of clear motivation (specifically in two characters), and it's hard to understand why they are doing what they do, when it hasn't been made clear why they are doing what they are doing.
- the lighting in a key scene towards the back end of the film (a climactic battle at that), really annoyed me. Why ruin some fantastic design work, by filming a lengthy scene in grey tones?
Yes, I get it - they wanted to highlight the golden armor (not a spoiler, it's been in the movie posters), but by greying out everything else? muddy, muddy, muddy
- the plot device to drive the film (and explain Steve Trevor being in 1984) is just silly. It comes across as an executive saying "it's a comic book film, so why not?". . . I mean. .it's not terrible, but it's silly.
and my biggest nit-pick: there is a *lot* of CGI in this film. That's not necessarily "Con". . .but too much of it here is BAD CGI. It's really looks unfinished. and that's kind of shocking, as several scenes are so bad they pull you right out of the film.
(and no, none of them are in regards to the Cheetah character - it turns out the shots that looked so poor in the trailer must have been unfinished at that time, as they are much better in the finished film).
so. . .yeah, worth seeing, and I'll probably get on Blu.. .but not as good as the 1st.
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
|
Post by shaxper on Dec 26, 2020 10:19:30 GMT -5
ok. . spoiler free take on WW84 (which thanks to the new giant TV we just got (75" with HBO Max preinstalled, and free since we already pay for HBO via cable), was just like watching it on a Movie Screen anyways). Overall, it's decent. It's not *great* (certainly not as good as the 1st one), and I'd honestly give it a grade of " C+" - but it's worth seeing, even with several issues. Pros: - the design of the film/characters, and overall set design is fantastic. - the acting is (for the most part) very good, and Kristen Wiig impressed me as Cheetah - I wasn't fully onboard, and early on was a bit concerned. But she really pulls it off. - multiple moments of "oh wow" - many straight from the WW comics, that gave me joy out of nowhere. Stay thru the credits, for one of those moments. Cons: - at 2 1/2 hours, it's much too long, and multiple "tone setting" scenes should have been dropped, as they slow the plot down to a crawl - there is a serious lack of clear motivation (specifically in two characters), and it's hard to understand why they are doing what they do, when it hasn't been made clear why they are doing what they are doing. - the lighting in a key scene towards the back end of the film (a climactic battle at that), really annoyed me. Why ruin some fantastic design work, by filming a lengthy scene in grey tones? Yes, I get it - they wanted to highlight the golden armor (not a spoiler, it's been in the movie posters), but by greying out everything else? muddy, muddy, muddy - the plot device to drive the film (and explain Steve Trevor being in 1984) is just silly. It comes across as an executive saying "it's a comic book film, so why not?". . . I mean. .it's not terrible, but it's silly. and my biggest nit-pick: there is a *lot* of CGI in this film. That's not necessarily "Con". . .but too much of it here is BAD CGI. It's really looks unfinished. and that's kind of shocking, as several scenes are so bad they pull you right out of the film. (and no, none of them are in regards to the Cheetah character - it turns out the shots that looked so poor in the trailer must have been unfinished at that time, as they are much better in the finished film). so. . .yeah, worth seeing, and I'll probably get on Blu.. .but not as good as the 1st. I read a friend's review of the film last night that made almost exactly these same points. Wow. I guess I'll skip it. Wonder Woman was the first (and last) DC film I bothered to watch after being deflated by Man of Steel. I have no burning desire to keep up with the DCU unless I'm missing something that truly shouldn't be missed. |
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 26, 2020 10:58:05 GMT -5
Sounds alot like what I thought of the first film to be honest... I'll probably watch it at some point when it starts making the rounds on cable, but no rush.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2020 11:19:31 GMT -5
ok. . spoiler free take on WW84 (which thanks to the new giant TV we just got (75" with HBO Max preinstalled, and free since we already pay for HBO via cable), was just like watching it on a Movie Screen anyways). Overall, it's decent. It's not *great* (certainly not as good as the 1st one), and I'd honestly give it a grade of " C+" - but it's worth seeing, even with several issues. Pros: - the design of the film/characters, and overall set design is fantastic. - the acting is (for the most part) very good, and Kristen Wiig impressed me as Cheetah - I wasn't fully onboard, and early on was a bit concerned. But she really pulls it off. - multiple moments of "oh wow" - many straight from the WW comics, that gave me joy out of nowhere. Stay thru the credits, for one of those moments. Cons: - at 2 1/2 hours, it's much too long, and multiple "tone setting" scenes should have been dropped, as they slow the plot down to a crawl - there is a serious lack of clear motivation (specifically in two characters), and it's hard to understand why they are doing what they do, when it hasn't been made clear why they are doing what they are doing. - the lighting in a key scene towards the back end of the film (a climactic battle at that), really annoyed me. Why ruin some fantastic design work, by filming a lengthy scene in grey tones? Yes, I get it - they wanted to highlight the golden armor (not a spoiler, it's been in the movie posters), but by greying out everything else? muddy, muddy, muddy - the plot device to drive the film (and explain Steve Trevor being in 1984) is just silly. It comes across as an executive saying "it's a comic book film, so why not?". . . I mean. .it's not terrible, but it's silly. and my biggest nit-pick: there is a *lot* of CGI in this film. That's not necessarily "Con". . .but too much of it here is BAD CGI. It's really looks unfinished. and that's kind of shocking, as several scenes are so bad they pull you right out of the film. (and no, none of them are in regards to the Cheetah character - it turns out the shots that looked so poor in the trailer must have been unfinished at that time, as they are much better in the finished film). so. . .yeah, worth seeing, and I'll probably get on Blu.. .but not as good as the 1st. I read a friend's review of the film last night that made almost exactly these same points. Wow. I guess I'll skip it. Wonder Woman was the first (and last) DC film I bothered to watch after being deflated by Man of Steel. I have no burning desire to keep up with the DCU unless I'm missing something that truly shouldn't be missed. well, C+ isn't *terrible*. . it was a nice way to spend the evening last night, even if it was too long.
the opening sequence is where the bad CGI really worried me (I mean, it's really, really bad in the opening 10 minutes or so) . but there are some stunning moments of beautiful CGI thruout the film as well.
(of course, you also get those moments where Diana is lassoing lightning bolts (!) that was in the trailer, and yes, is in the film too).
what I'd say is that if you're a fan of the Comics? it's worth seeing for those "oh wow" Easter egg moments. . that the general audience likely won't get, but will make you smile as you recognize it from the comics. And as messy as the character is, they do pull in some comics accurate stuff into Max Lord as well.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958 
|
Post by Crimebuster on Dec 26, 2020 14:06:38 GMT -5
I have a lot of thoughts on this one. I'm going to do a video on my YouTube channel about it where I go into more detail, so I'll post that later. Short version: it's way, way more ambitious than the first one. As a result it succeeds at a lot more than the first one, and it also fails at a lot more than the first one. The main problem is that this isn't a film about Diana, it's a film about Maxwell Lord. He's the main character, it's his character arc and his actions that the film revolve around. And I think what they did with Lord was really ambitious, really interesting, and succeeded very well, if you look at it for what I'm sure it was, which is that... ...Lord is a stand-in for Donald Trump. I think on a character level, there's a much more interesting Wonder Woman / Cheetah film that could have been done with what they set up here, if it had focused on the two of them and their relationship. I'm 100% convinced, though, that the Max Lord story was the central idea of the movie that everything else was built around. If this film had been done at a different time, I think we might have seen a very different film about Diana and Minerva, but it was made when it was made, for the reasons it was made, so this is what we got, warts and all. |
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Dec 26, 2020 16:49:40 GMT -5
Wonder Woman 1984 was a major disappointment. Gone was the sense of the character's purpose and the overall dark grit of the first film, and make no mistake, the grit was not about the war--it was a commentary on the failings of humanity in general, whether they were on a city street or on the battlefield. WW84 lacks any such attempt to have Diana be that person seeking to straighten out the evils of the world, and in fact, it presents her as being just as self-centered and weak as everyone else when she takes advantage of the source of the film's conflict. After WW being established as such a virtuous character who learned to stand above the worst of human instincts in the first film (and accept tragedy that's beyond her power), having her do the unthinkable...an undeniably immoral act (you will understand one you see he film), it has tarnished Wonder Woman.
Most of this film's problems are found in the script by Johns and Jenkins; unlike the Snyder co-written / co-produced first film (which kept the movie speaking the same, adult language of the DC movies which preceded it), Jenkins was desperate to pull WW away from the DCEU (she has said as much in interviews), and as a result she--with Johns--have injected he film with asinine characters and hand-shaking political commentary not worthy of WW--including this film's whining version of Cheetah, a woman who also commits a series of immoral acts long before she becomes Cheetah, yet Wonder Woman treats her as a victim, rather than a threat (and the other things she becomes).
For anyone who has not yet risked the theatre, or streamed this on HBO Max, I suggest you leave expectations of quality in the tradition of earlier DECU films at the door. Jenkins has directed (and co-written) a directionless mess that might spell the end of Wonder Woman solo movies.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
|
Post by Crimebuster on Dec 26, 2020 18:48:20 GMT -5
Here's my really long winded, in depth reaction/review:
|
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Dec 26, 2020 20:00:27 GMT -5
The first Wonder Woman film is in my top 3 superhero films. This one was decent. I agree that it was a bit too long. The Cheetah was in it far too little and the battle scene was very dark, maybe to hide dodgy makeup and effects (the action looked good but any time we got a closeup she looked cheaply made.) I was reminded of Doctor Who in a couple aspects: 1) the fuzzy "science" of having the worldwide broadcast "touch" everyone in the world so that they could use Max's power, and 2) the "magical" reversal of an insoluble situation. I did not like Kristen Wiig as Barbara or how she was written. I guess the "awkward loser gets powers" makes nerds feel good but it's so cliche. But apart from a few short sequences that I thought slowed things down I was never bored. I give 7/10.
Oh and I forgot to mention, Wonder Woman 1984 is such a stupid, unimaginative title. Why not something like Wonder Woman: Wishbringer... there you go, they should hire me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 0:06:58 GMT -5
I loved WW84. At times it felt more like a Max Lord movie than a Wonder Woman movie, but that's fine, as I loved Pascal's performance. I also thought Wiig was great as Cheetah, but I like Wiig in general and don't know anything about Cheetah outside of this movie. It did feel uneven, but I thought the highs were higher than those of the first, and while I think the first is technically a better film, I liked this more overall, and think the last twenty or so minutes are the pinnacle of the post-2000 DC films. I was also surprised by how much it felt like an 80s film, without feeling like it was trying to beat the viewer over the head with the fact it's set in the 80s.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 0:09:01 GMT -5
Oh and I forgot to mention, Wonder Woman 1984 is such a stupid, unimaginative title. Why not something like Wonder Woman: Wishbringer... there you go, they should hire me. Your title sounds more like an 80s movie. I love it. |
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 27, 2020 14:53:48 GMT -5
I enjoyed it for what it was. It was fun, the performances were good. I actually really liked the 2 villains.
That all said, the script is a mess. The opening scene establishes a theme that is never brought up again in the movie and the theme in the end is something completely different, so that rather lengthy scene is completely pointless. It's like the beginning to a completely different movie and in the end should have been cut. This complete changing of the theme really bothered me.
The other major problem I had was how they brought back Steve. There are some serious moral implications for the way they went about it that the movie never once even acknowledges, let alone addresses. And given what the Macguffin can do it was completely unnecessary as well. They could have brought him back without these unfortunate implications and told the exact same story.
There are little writing hiccups such as several things relating to the fighter plane.
The movie is too long and slow for its own good, and the best action scene is in the middle with the highway chase - though that is a really good action scene. I actually really liked that the resolution wasn't through big action but with heart. That seemed very true to Wonder Woman to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by spoon on Jan 1, 2021 0:08:13 GMT -5
I saw it on Wednesday night. I did private theater rental thing, so it was just some of my friends and me in a theater. As far as I know, I'm the only comic book reader in the bunch.
I think it was a mixed bag. I liked various part of the action sequence. The Diana/Steve dynamic was interesting. Kristen Wiig exceeded my expectations. But I agree that Maxwell Lord gets too much of the emphasis at the expense of Diana. The opening scene doesn't seem to fit, although I guess the cheating aspect is connected to the short-cut of the wishes on the stone and Steve cheating death. The broadness of the concept was a double-edged sword. It allowed the telling of a really big story, but it nice to have a story with some constraints so the stakes matter. But Diana's powers fading actually anchored things a bit.
But the experience of seeing the movie, meeting up with friends at a theater rented just for us, was a really nice experience after the past few months have been pretty socially limited due to COVID-19.
|
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Jan 1, 2021 15:17:58 GMT -5
So what do you all think about the Wonder Woman is a "rapist" controversy from the movie that is a current topic? Is this what comes from making "adult" movies from comic books? Not seeing the forest for the tree syndrome in not considering or thinking through all the so called "great" ideas?
|
|
