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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 14, 2018 7:59:28 GMT -5
Not my favorite Avengers line-up, but it was a decent read, just not "classic" Avengers. For those saying "it wasn't really the Avengers", was it any worse than the Monica Rambeau/Dr. Druid/Black Knight/Hercules team? Hey now, I really liked that team! Monica Rambeau is awesome, and Herc is a lifer, and works far better with the team than Thor does, IMO! Black Knight was a good straight Man for Herc at the time, and an interesting love interest for Cersei. Dr Druid was kinda lame, yes, but that was on purpose, as he turned out to be evil and all.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 14, 2018 8:05:13 GMT -5
Ronin WAS echo for a few issues.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 14, 2018 8:21:30 GMT -5
Ronin WAS echo for a few issues... Right..I always felt like that was one of those things where they changed the plot because fans guessed the 'surprise'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 8:46:47 GMT -5
Many of the additions just didn't "feel" like Avengers. Sentry, Dr. Strange, Power-Man, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, wolverine and such were all primarily loner types and if they were going to be part of a team they would come and go and not be there every time you needed them. Suddenly the Avengers comic became more like a Defender's title where these kind of folks would have fit in more readily. This is a valid point. As with most of BMB's books I read the first arc (or two). He has great ideas. He starts out strong. He just doesn't sustain them IMO. I lost interest quickly. I dropped it before the Ronin arc.
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Post by brutalis on Jun 14, 2018 8:55:02 GMT -5
Many of the additions just didn't "feel" like Avengers. Sentry, Dr. Strange, Power-Man, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, wolverine and such were all primarily loner types and if they were going to be part of a team they would come and go and not be there every time you needed them. Suddenly the Avengers comic became more like a Defender's title where these kind of folks would have fit in more readily. This is a valid point. As with most of BMB's books I read the first arc (or two). He has great ideas. He starts out strong. He just doesn't sustain them IMO. I lost interest quickly. I dropped it before the Ronin arc. Yep, like you I started but dropped quickly. And I think you hit part of the thing about Bendis in that he has great initial story ideas but then they quickly fall apart or become lessened in the telling. I like that he restored the Cage/Rand PM/IF team and strengthened their bond in friendship making them a true family. But many other things he did along the way just never did much for me. Part of why he may be so liked by current fans is that his writing reflects the modern generation: grab me with something big and bold because my attention span is short and I won't care about the details as long as it "pop's". He is the typical summer movie: big, bold, expansive and great as long as you don't mind the missing details or misfires in the story which don't ring true.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 14, 2018 9:09:49 GMT -5
I remember being really into this first arc but thought the series lost it after that. Revisiting the Sentry was a bad idea. I don't think I made it to #16.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 14, 2018 9:57:19 GMT -5
I just deleted a massive rant - I don't want to argue about this too much, I did that enough at the time. But briefly: What is really the problem fans have? For me personally, it's a combination of three things: 1. I thought the stories were really bad. 2. At the same time, the fan community was constantly telling us how good the stories were, and anyone who thought otherwise was a laughable fool. 3. And Bendis himself came across as extremely unlikable, smug, and arrogant, both in his interviews and in his writing style. Plus, the fan community around this was really toxic. It all added up to a really unpleasant experience for me first as a reader, and second as a comic book fan. The only plus side for me is that between this and Civil War - which is when I finally dropped Avengers after more than 20 years as a faithful reader - I finally realized I didn't need to care at all about Marvel Comics. So it helped save me a lot of money, and a lot of wasted time reading bad comics over the past decade. For what it's worth, I quite enjoyed Bendis's New Avengers. Hey, we all have done dumb things we regret, but you don't have to advertise it!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 14, 2018 9:58:41 GMT -5
Not my favorite Avengers line-up, but it was a decent read, just not "classic" Avengers. For those saying "it wasn't really the Avengers", was it any worse than the Monica Rambeau/Dr. Druid/Black Knight/Hercules team? Hey now, I really liked that team! Monica Rambeau is awesome, and Herc is a lifer, and works far better with the team than Thor does, IMO! Black Knight was a good straight Man for Herc at the time, and an interesting love interest for Cersei. Dr Druid was kinda lame, yes, but that was on purpose, as he turned out to be evil and all. And Herc first joined early in Roy Thomas tenure, Black Knight was introduced (but never actually joined the team) not much later, and the Avengers often have a Captain or Ms. Marvel around. And Doctor Druid... well, made more sense than Hawkeye. There has never been an Avengers recruit that made less sense than Hawkeye circa Avengers # 16. Not even close. I quite liked the Bendis Avengers line-up, though. I wanted Spider-man as a permanent, full-time Avenger since I started reading comics. I dunno why it didn't happen in Avengers # 1 - I read something about Kirby not wanting to draw Ditko characters... but wasn't Ditko drawing Iron Man at the time? So having Spider-man and Spider-woman felt like a double win. Side-note: My all-time favorite Avengers line-up was from Jeff Parker's Marvel Adventures: The Avengers (Spider-Man, the Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man, Storm, the Wasp as Giant-Woman and.. fine, Wolverine I guess, whatever.)
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 10:57:28 GMT -5
Personally, I liked this Avengers line up. It was populated with the popular single superheroes of the Marvel Universe. However, I liked Brian Michael Bendis's Mighty Avengers series which was launched about a year and a half after the New Avengers relaunch.
The thing I didn't like in the New Avengers as much was like for some reason, at times, the "voices" of the characters didn't somehow match, with the exception of Spider-Man. At the same time, perhaps I am a bit biased on this, I'd rather have powerhouses as part of the team so they can take on "Unearthly Dangers." But eventually, this would grow on me after the Civil War mini series. Because then you have two sets of Avengers (Mighty vs New) that are on opposing sides of the Civil War, and since Bendis wrote both, it made for a very interesting interaction between some of the team members, and I liked the cat and mouse game played between the two teams after Captain America's "death" in 2007.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 10:59:23 GMT -5
I enjoyed the Bendis version of the Avengers. What is really the problem fans have? Is it adding fan favorites like Spidey, Wolverine? And I'm speaking as an Avengers fan from way back. I can separate this version from the first volume. This was certainly superior to the Bob Harris/ crossing and Liefeld runs that preceded it. I'm not familiar with Bob Harris. But I did like the set up of having popular characters in this team. The best interaction would be between Wolverine and Spider-Man.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 11:01:36 GMT -5
Like I told Crimebuster, I agree with you. The Avengers in this series, does not come across or sound, or even kind of act, like The Avengers we are used to. However, I am approaching this series like I was reviewing it with no background history of reading any Avengers comic books, that way, I won't just rant all over the place. I will try to bring a positive review from a rookie comic book reader point of view. It won't serve any purpose if I just spew venom. I am sure our fellow members who most likely read this series when it first came out, can do that for me. However, let us not forget, there must be some who have liked this series. Perhaps those that are younger and started reading comic books in the decade of the early to mid 2000's.This book was a fan favorite and it catapulted the Avengers into a franchise of books ultimately leading to the blockbuster movies we see today. Respect, guys. I remember this series was a fan favorite, along with Astonishing X-Men, All Star Batman and Robin, when those would come out.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 11:04:08 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I quite enjoyed Bendis's New Avengers. I liked the Frank Cho pencilled issue whatever issue number that was. I remember being blown away by the quality of the art. Then I forgot that comic book in the subway when I left the station, and couldn't find a back issue in any of the comic book stores.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 11:11:27 GMT -5
Not my favorite Avengers line-up, but it was a decent read, just not "classic" Avengers. For those saying "it wasn't really the Avengers", was it any worse than the Monica Rambeau/Dr. Druid/Black Knight/Hercules team? Haha. I loved Herc and Black Knight and Captain Marvel on the team. Dr. Druid... I guess I don't know him much. I liked some of the issues that had Hercules and Sub-Mariner in the team. I was impressed with Captain Marvel because there was no female superhero other than Storm. Other than Wasp, you don't see a regular female member on the Avengers. Maybe She-Hulk in later years... The Geoff Johns Avengers years.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 11:13:49 GMT -5
Many of the additions just didn't "feel" like Avengers. Sentry, Dr. Strange, Power-Man, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, wolverine and such were all primarily loner types and if they were going to be part of a team they would come and go and not be there every time you needed them. Suddenly the Avengers comic became more like a Defender's title where these kind of folks would have fit in more readily. This is a valid point. As with most of BMB's books I read the first arc (or two). He has great ideas. He starts out strong. He just doesn't sustain them IMO. I lost interest quickly. I dropped it before the Ronin arc. Personally I liked his Ultimate Spider-Man and Daredevil. They were great dialogue-wise.
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Post by sabongero on Jun 14, 2018 11:19:10 GMT -5
Plus, the fan community around this was really toxic. It all added up to a really unpleasant experience for me first as a reader, and second as a comic book fan. The only plus side for me is that between this and Civil War - which is when I finally dropped Avengers after more than 20 years as a faithful reader - I finally realized I didn't need to care at all about Marvel Comics. So it helped save me a lot of money, and a lot of wasted time reading bad comics over the past decade. I can't wait until the "One More Day" storyline reaches the ten year mark in a couple of months so CCF members can have another entertaining topic to discuss.
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