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Post by sabongero on Jun 22, 2018 17:22:44 GMT -5
Fathom #1
"Blue Sun" (part one)Writer: Michael Turner & Bill O'Neil Penciller: Michael Turner Inker: Joe Weems Colorist: Jonathan D. Smith Letterer: Dennis Heisler Editor: David Wohl Synopsis: The story started in a flashback sequence in 1984 San Diego, California when the cruise ship Paradise suddenly materialized after a ten year disappearance. The Secretary of Defense ordered the military official in charge, Maylander to have the military to secure and contain the area, secure the ship, detain the passengers, and to make sure the media is warned and all cameras and videos are destroyed. According to the narrator, which turned out to be Killian, central to the story is a young child named Aspen, whom the military overlooked that day. fast forward to current timeline where Maylander is an admiral, and on board the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, about ninety-five miles off the coast of Honolulu, Hawaii. He ordered a Navy fighter to pursue what appeared to be underwater vehicles near the surface travelling as fast as the planes. As the fighter got close, they panicked on the radio to disengage, and Admiral Maylander ordered to get a hold of the Secretary of Defense. Back at San Diego, California, a fully grown Aspen Matthews was swimming in the pool when she was picked up by a friend to take her to the airport. Today is the day. We are then in a short interlude narrated by Killian where he met Aspen five years after the Paradise incident and approached her underwater in the ocean while she was diving. Fast forward back to the current timeline and we join Aspen Matthews arriving via helicopter to the exploration vessel Viking II. There she is met by dive master Lawler, Akiko Nigata who works as a staff of the DMD (Deep Marine Discovery which is a top-secret underwater science facility) and programmer Jack, Aspen's ex-boyfriend, whom she is not happy to see. The Viking II submerged and they went down to 1,200 feet deep and arrived at their destination, the DMD. In the DMD, they were met by the director, Alexander Jarvis. This would be the home of Aspen Matthews for the next ninety days. While walking through the facility, they came across an alien looking thing, which director Alexander Jarvis described as an underwater transport that was found there and they couldn't move it so they built the DMD around it. Being an expert on marine propulsion, Aspen Matthews was brought to the facility to give them fresh ideas. Arriving from a bulkhead entrance was Cannon Hawke, the DMD emissary who is trusted by both the U.S.A. and Japan, which is on a joint project, the DMD, and has both their guards up in reference to acquiring information. The following day at the USS George Washington, Navy pilot Chance Edwards led a new two plane team to investigate a "vehicle" just barely submerged in the ocean. They reported back that there is light underwater and the confirm sighting the bogey. Admiral Maylander ordered to get closer for recon. Chance dove underwater, and left his wingman watching from above. Then all of a sudden a triangulated light appeared just above water and formed a singular laser which hit and destroyed the plane of Chance Edward's wingman. Admiral Maylander ordered Chance to disengage and return. But Chance did not obey the order. Back at the DMD, Aspen Matthews in an advanced dive gear is observing and analyzing the underwater alien-like transport ship up close and personal. She is impressed with how advanced her dive gear is. A little later on, the director approached Aspen who was drying her hair after the dive, and told her to follow him as he has to show him something they discovered three months before. It is a secret as secret gets, and this is why she was invited to the DMD. It was an underwater alien in stasis. Back with Chance Edwards, he was being approached by several underwater alien transports. He launched a torpedo at them, but they avoided it, and the torpedo acquired another target, all the while Admiral Maylander has been ordering him to disengage. Unfortunately, the new target is the DMD facility. Back at the DMD, the the underwater alien's eyes opened. But before anything else could happen, the collision alarm sounded off. A torpedo is about the hit the facility. Comments: The art is fantastic. Michael Turner's vision for the underwater culture is unique and original. I've never seen anything like this. The underwater transport ships and the underwater alien has their beings combined with underwater forms such as coral-like shells. It is their distinguishing feature, and it captured a deep coldness in the mood. Also, the color schemes has the underwater culture in purple, perhaps they are to symbolize majestic royalty. After all, purple in Ancient Rome is associate with the Roman Emperors and purple is associated with wealth, extravagance, wisdom, etc. And perhaps this ancient underwater culture is associated with it. There's a lot going on in the first issue. We are introduced to the main protagonist of the story and we get a little origin about her. It's good how the story steered her to meeting the underwater alien at the end and showed why it is significant. There is a lot of mystery surrounding protagonist, the aliens, and the other supporting cast. The comic book is not flat and unmoving, as the story kept moving forward, and we are left with a great cliffhanger.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 22, 2018 22:25:26 GMT -5
I only know Michael Turner's art from what he contributed to the 2005 Supergirl comics and that he died of cancer in 2008. I like anything nautical so I might check into this title. I thought this was an Elementals spin-off however; isn't it?
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 22, 2018 22:43:25 GMT -5
I only know Michael Turner's art from what he contributed to the 2005 Supergirl comics and that he died of cancer in 2008. I like anything nautical so I might check into this title. I thought this was an Elementals spin-off however; isn't it? Nope. There was a character named Fathom in Bill Willingham's Elementals; but, this had no connection. You can't trademark Fathom, since its a pre-existing word. Also, the Comico series (Andrew Rev had purchased the rights from Bill Willingham, so Comico owned it) ceased publication completely, in 1997. Turner's series debuted in 1998.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 22, 2018 23:02:37 GMT -5
As I wrote someplace recently, I bought a couple of mid '90s Marvel X-titles recently by artists I had liked a lot in the '80s, Jan Duursema and Terry Shoemaker, and it looked like they were under orders to copy that Image look, and it made what might have been good stories ludicrous with the two main mouth expressions and huge muscles on all males and broken backs on all females. That whole approach may have started with Art Adams and Frank Miller's original Dark Knight, then Jim Lee came in, but it seems like Leifeld and Image took it to a depressing, and for many alienating, extreme. I never even saw an actual comic of his until fairly recently, but I could see the effect of his and those along the same lines' overdone style in the windows of shops I quit going into, and pages of comics I used to enjoy and could relate to. I think the form is still trying to recover from those late '80s and '90s years of excess and sheer exploitation/going dark. I would think here people would at least not denigrate a Sal Buscema or Jim Aparo, but I did hear these serious dark superheroes for adults people denigrate them along with anything for kids. If you find bad anatomy and other sloppy visual elements, plain unreadable stories, that seems fair game anywhere to me. A lot was taken, how much returned towards future sustainability? It seems to me that part of the challenge was a desire to push the art form forward. Every artist wants to make a novel contribution to his field, not just ape his predecessors. Think about how the compositional forms of the baroque era (Pachelbel, Bach) gave way to the classical period (Mozart) and then the Romantic period (Brahms, Mussorgsky). Orchestras kept getting bigger. Chord stacks longer. Later composers were stifled by the bigness of it all. So they changed the game, composing according to rules that were "wrong" compared to their predecessors. Atonality, tone rows, etc. Prokofiev, Britten, Schoenberg. Then electronic compositional techniques changed the game even more radically, with musique concrete and analog electronica under Stockhausen, Schaeffer, and the like. Then the minimalism of Cage and Reich. You can see the same impulses in pop music as the crooners of the 1940s gave way to rock and roll, which evolved into lush disco and prog rock by the mid 70s before collapsing into punk minimalism and New Wave, growing again into hair metal before giving way to grunge and hip-hop and now EDM. Or in the world of painting, where the ultra-realism of the Dutch Masters gave way to increasingly less photorealistic styles, from Impressionism to Cubism, Dada, and the cornucopia of modern styles that are more about how the art makes you feel than about how well it reproduces the appearance of the natural world. So in comic books, where could the art form go after Neal Adams and George Perez? New printing technologies emerged slowly to improve colorization, resolution, and sharpness. But that was too slow in coming, and the new generation of artists couldn't climb higher than their predecessors under the old aesthetic system. So they opted out and created a new visual vocabulary of imaginary muscles and absurd postures. The buying public responded, to an unfortunately vigorous degree which inspired a wave of imitators. You could argue that Rob Liefeld is the Sid Vicious of comic books. He may be incompetent at the old game, just as you wouldn't tap the Sex Pistols to back Frank Sinatra or Luciano Pavarotti. But he did plant a flag for a new game which, love or hate it, became a recognizable school of art. I think a big element of the Image style was that most were self-taught, and got the bulk of their art training by copying comics and using action figures for model reference (I think Liefeld talked of doing this; I know other have). They basically aped what had been on the page when they were younger, which was Byrne, Perez, Miller and a few others. Before, you had to have some chops to get into comics, either from study or apprenticeship. Most guys from the late 60s onward broke in as assistant to other artists, like Wally Wood, Gil Kane, and Neal Adams. Some, like Mike Grell, had formal art training and experience in other fields (comic strips, in his case). However, all you earned was page rate and whatever you could earn on the side (convention art, original art sales, etc...). You had to learn to churn out material or prove to be onto something big before you were earning enough to live on. The Image guys benefitted from the royalty system, especially by getting onto hot books. They did have to produce the quantity that earlier guys did, which helped build their skills. They also benefited by the speculator boom, which both inflated royalties and created a demand for new titles (speculators buying first issues left and right) and more opportunities for new artists. That certainly fed into their lack of time honing their skills. Now some, like McFarlane, have spoken about being mentored (Dick Giordano and John Romita, in his case). Liefeld got cleaned up a bit by Karl Kesel and others at DC, plus was pushed more. If you look at a lot of these guys before they are on high profile Marvel books, their work is tighter, though in varying degrees. Valentino had built his in the indies, but was hired at Marvel more on the strength of his writing. Larsen had some polishing in the indies. When they started getting a name, it seemed like some of them stopped trying and pretty much just started doing the same kinds of page layouts, panels and group posing shots, since those sold well at conventions. They had a big enough following that they ignored editors or the editors weren't strong enough to push them to refine their work (or even knew what they were doing). Once they went on their own, they didn't answer to anyone. I think if these guys had had to go through what guys like Perez and P Craig Russell and Howard Chaykin went through, the Image style, if there had been such a thing, would be remarkably different. Look at the graduates of the Kubert School, for comparison, those folks came out pretty polished and fairly savvy about the industry. The early group did tend to look a lot like Kubert and some of the early instructors; but, most evolved into their own styles and became very polished. If you look at the 90s, the prominence of the Image style diminishes after the collapse of the speculator boom and as the core founders pull back from producing regular work. By the end and in the New Millennium, you saw some more polished artists.
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Post by rberman on Jun 23, 2018 6:11:35 GMT -5
It seems to me that part of the challenge was a desire to push the art form forward. Every artist wants to make a novel contribution to his field, not just ape his predecessors. Think about how the compositional forms of the baroque era (Pachelbel, Bach) gave way to the classical period (Mozart) and then the Romantic period (Brahms, Mussorgsky). Orchestras kept getting bigger. Chord stacks longer. Later composers were stifled by the bigness of it all. So they changed the game, composing according to rules that were "wrong" compared to their predecessors. Atonality, tone rows, etc. Prokofiev, Britten, Schoenberg. Then electronic compositional techniques changed the game even more radically, with musique concrete and analog electronica under Stockhausen, Schaeffer, and the like. Then the minimalism of Cage and Reich. You can see the same impulses in pop music as the crooners of the 1940s gave way to rock and roll, which evolved into lush disco and prog rock by the mid 70s before collapsing into punk minimalism and New Wave, growing again into hair metal before giving way to grunge and hip-hop and now EDM. Or in the world of painting, where the ultra-realism of the Dutch Masters gave way to increasingly less photorealistic styles, from Impressionism to Cubism, Dada, and the cornucopia of modern styles that are more about how the art makes you feel than about how well it reproduces the appearance of the natural world. So in comic books, where could the art form go after Neal Adams and George Perez? New printing technologies emerged slowly to improve colorization, resolution, and sharpness. But that was too slow in coming, and the new generation of artists couldn't climb higher than their predecessors under the old aesthetic system. So they opted out and created a new visual vocabulary of imaginary muscles and absurd postures. The buying public responded, to an unfortunately vigorous degree which inspired a wave of imitators. You could argue that Rob Liefeld is the Sid Vicious of comic books. He may be incompetent at the old game, just as you wouldn't tap the Sex Pistols to back Frank Sinatra or Luciano Pavarotti. But he did plant a flag for a new game which, love or hate it, became a recognizable school of art. I think a big element of the Image style was that most were self-taught, and got the bulk of their art training by copying comics and using action figures for model reference (I think Liefeld talked of doing this; I know other have). They basically aped what had been on the page when they were younger, which was Byrne, Perez, Miller and a few others. Before, you had to have some chops to get into comics, either from study or apprenticeship. Most guys from the late 60s onward broke in as assistant to other artists, like Wally Wood, Gil Kane, and Neal Adams. Some, like Mike Grell, had formal art training and experience in other fields (comic strips, in his case). However, all you earned was page rate and whatever you could earn on the side (convention art, original art sales, etc...). You had to learn to churn out material or prove to be onto something big before you were earning enough to live on. The Image guys benefitted from the royalty system, especially by getting onto hot books. They did have to produce the quantity that earlier guys did, which helped build their skills. They also benefited by the speculator boom, which both inflated royalties and created a demand for new titles (speculators buying first issues left and right) and more opportunities for new artists. That certainly fed into their lack of time honing their skills. Now some, like McFarlane, have spoken about being mentored (Dick Giordano and John Romita, in his case). Liefeld got cleaned up a bit by Karl Kesel and others at DC, plus was pushed more. If you look at a lot of these guys before they are on high profile Marvel books, their work is tighter, though in varying degrees. Valentino had built his in the indies, but was hired at Marvel more on the strength of his writing. Larsen had some polishing in the indies. When they started getting a name, it seemed like some of them stopped trying and pretty much just started doing the same kinds of page layouts, panels and group posing shots, since those sold well at conventions. They had a big enough following that they ignored editors or the editors weren't strong enough to push them to refine their work (or even knew what they were doing). Once they went on their own, they didn't answer to anyone. I think if these guys had had to go through what guys like Perez and P Craig Russell and Howard Chaykin went through, the Image style, if there had been such a thing, would be remarkably different. Look at the graduates of the Kubert School, for comparison, those folks came out pretty polished and fairly savvy about the industry. The early group did tend to look a lot like Kubert and some of the early instructors; but, most evolved into their own styles and became very polished. If you look at the 90s, the prominence of the Image style diminishes after the collapse of the speculator boom and as the core founders pull back from producing regular work. By the end and in the New Millennium, you saw some more polished artists. Right. This is where the punk rock comparison comes in. On a technical level, the first generation of punk musicians were high schoolers barely out of the garage. They lacked the technical skills, theory knowledge, and breadth of exposure to different musical genres that their predecessors had. So objectively, they were "bad musicians who didn't know their craft." Nevertheless, they struck a chord with a public that was ready for something new, ready for an alternative to highly polished disco music and highly technical prog rock and heavy metal. It sparked youth excitementand became a banner around which a rising generation could rally. But it also couldn't last, because both the fans and the musicians themselves got bored with its simplicity. The Sex Pistols gave way to The Clash, The Police, and U2, and within a few years, we saw Duran Duran, The Cure, Tears for Fears, and similar more polished bands as the new bellwethers. So I'm not willing to say that the initial flash of McFarlane/Liefeld success was just a case of collective insanity or clever marketing. McFarlane's inhuman postures and Liefeld's anatomical monstrosities somehow tapped into the zeitgeist, or they wouldn't have made an impact that we're still talking about 30 years later.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 23, 2018 7:33:58 GMT -5
That Brigade cover screams '90s comic, let's just call that one the perfect representative. Always the glowering pouty mouths too along with the gritted constipation teeth. Lim Lee oversized cross-hathcings, check. Battle damage, check. Hair product '90s music video do's, check. Enormous muscles with veins even through a costume, check. No feet, check! Does that prove the lack of feet knock? I never got to express my distaste to anyone at DC about Supergirl being paraded around dead on a couple covers for the sake of sales (making 'history'). That was about the fourth or fifth female character I cared about that got killed for me and was about when I seriously cut back on buying much of anything (down to Swamp Thing at DC and Moonshadow and Starstruck at Marvel/Epic right before I just quit bothering to look much anymore). I was reading Jemm yesterday, and there was a Meanwhile about that... they printed a really long letter from a fan exactly about that (and this was just before the Supergirl one)... I guess they never really got the message
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 23, 2018 12:44:49 GMT -5
I liked the do-it-yourself attitude of 'punk' rock, and I sort of witnessed first-hand the tail-end of what was going on around the Seattle and Vancouver scenes. I would equate the Image 'generation' of artists more with things like auto-tune pop. Generally if it's not my thing I just leave it to others, but when it does kind of invade something I did like I have a right to complain I suppose. A lot of people really dislike the various Japanese anime styles' influence on modern superhero comics that used to be more straightforward uncartoony. They have a right. It is weird seeing a long-standing super character with a simplistic huge mouth and tears streaming from the eyes I guess. I like Teen Titans Go and think of it as it's own super-deformed chan style universe, like Peter Porker The Spectacular Spider-Ham had his own weird little world. I wouldn't want that to be the regular version of Teen Titans comics. Likewise seeing Cyclops one issue with massive muscles and tiny head and the next issue looking normal by the great Alan Davis is just a step further than I want to or can take. The Image guys doing their own thing at Image is great, I can't understand why there was/is anything inherent to that which made people upset or critical, nor wish them failure.
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Post by rberman on Jun 23, 2018 13:03:16 GMT -5
I liked the do-it-yourself attitude of 'punk' rock, and I sort of witnessed first-hand the tail-end of what was going on around the Seattle and Vancouver scenes. I would equate the Image 'generation' of artists more with things like auto-tune pop. Auto-tune falls into the category of "economy trumping/shaping art." It's like the way that modern cartoons use computer cut-outs with few degrees of motion at once, rather than individually drawn frames. Its comic book equivalent would be some form of cut-and=paste or computerized Greg Land-style Photoshop lightboxing swipes. I would classify Image art as "technically incompetent but feels fresh at first" rather than "done that way for economy." I must confess to a degree of feeling jerked around by the disparate styles from issue to issue in, say, Grant Morrison's X-Men run. There's something to be said for consistency of model at least within a given story. Every change of art style incurs a small hit in continuity and thus reader satisfaction, so it could be jarring going from one artist to the next in short order: I didn't and don't enjoy that style of art, but if others do, whatever. It doesn't pick my pocket or break my arm.
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Post by bdk91939 on Jun 24, 2018 20:25:11 GMT -5
I liked some of the Image titles from the post 2000 year issues. By that time they had quality writers andnit wasn't just all about the art.
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Post by sabongero on Jul 20, 2018 12:42:44 GMT -5
Spawn #1May 1992 Writer: Todd McFarlane Illustrator: Todd McFarlane Inker: Todd McFarlane Colorist: Steve Oliff, Ken Steacy, & Reuben Rude Letterer: Tom Orzechowski Editor: Wanda Kolomyjec & Chris Ulm Synopsis: Spawn is back on Earth. He somewhat semi-remembers parts of his previous life. He was a soldier and a woman, perhaps a wife loved him. He knew he hated some people, and there was a betrayal and he died a horrible death. He made a deal with the devil, and he was granted powers, but his memories were taken from him. Sam and Twitch, the detectives, are introduced in this issue wanting to know who the killer of the criminals were. It's Spawn. He made easy work of dispatching ordinary criminals with his powers. But seeing a victimized woman after saving her, somehow brought back memories that haunted him. A wife in a previous living life. His curiosity gets the best of him. Removing some of his costume revealed a horribly disfigured human remains, thus questioning what the heck is he? The ending is a character named Violator about to give Spawn more trouble in forthcoming issues. Comments: The illustrations were very good in this issue. My only gripe, why does Spawn have pouches on his thigh? With all his demonlike powers, does he need a pouch where he can keep some "batarangs" or something? Image illustrations off pouches must've been a requisite for looking "cool" back in the early 90's. Not too much happens in this issue, but we do get glimpses of supporting characters in the world of Spawn. As we all know by now, illustrations trump story in the early stages of Image Publishing. But hopefully we get some good backstory in the future early issues.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 20, 2018 13:01:28 GMT -5
Spawn #1May 1992 Writer: Todd McFarlane Illustrator: Todd McFarlane Inker: Todd McFarlane Colorist: Steve Oliff, Ken Steacy, & Reuben Rude Letterer: Tom Orzechowski Editor: Wanda Kolomyjec & Chris Ulm Synopsis: Spawn is back on Earth. He somewhat semi-remembers parts of his previous life. He was a soldier and a woman, perhaps a wife loved him. He knew he hated some people, and there was a betrayal and he died a horrible death. He made a deal with the devil, and he was granted powers, but his memories were taken from him. Sam and Twitch, the detectives, are introduced in this issue wanting to know who the killer of the criminals were. It's Spawn. He made easy work of dispatching ordinary criminals with his powers. But seeing a victimized woman after saving her, somehow brought back memories that haunted him. A wife in a previous living life. His curiosity gets the best of him. Removing some of his costume revealed a horribly disfigured human remains, thus questioning what the heck is he? The ending is a character named Violator about to give Spawn more trouble in forthcoming issues. Comments: The illustrations were very good in this issue. My only gripe, why does Spawn have pouches on his thigh? With all his demonlike powers, does he need a pouch where he can keep some "batarangs" or something? Image illustrations off pouches must've been a requisite for looking "cool" back in the early 90's. Not too much happens in this issue, but we do get glimpses of supporting characters in the world of Spawn. As we all know by now, illustrations trump story in the early stages of Image Publishing. But hopefully we get some good backstory in the future early issues. They all thought it was cool because they never actually carried equipment in the field. I did a week with the Marines, during my second Midshipman Summer Training Cruise and believe me, you carry only the gear you need. Even an M-16 gets heavy, after 5 miles. When you are 5'6", like me, a flak jacket is pretty darn heavy, too. We went on night patrols with a helmet, flak jacket, web belt with two canteens and an M-16 with blanks. That was it and it was tiring enough. Watch the early part of platoon, when Willem Dafoe unloads some of what Charlie Sheen is carrying. The military actually experimented with ammo pouches that you strapped to the thigh. They had to be so tight they acted like a tourniquet, to keep them from sliding off. Later, they developed drop rigs, mainly to move the holster away from other tactical gear, to make it less clumsy. Those holsters are on suspension rigs, where a belt suspends them from the waist belt, then retaining straps buckle around the thigh. They are generally used for spec ops missions, where a pistol is more necessary, for close quarters combat. Most soldiers only carry their rifle, ammo, water, first aid gear, and a few other necessities (rations, when in the field). Still, Wally Wood started the idea, in his work; then, Steranko expanded it and everyone else added from there. Wood had been a paratrooper and they secure their gear to their body for the jump, often carrying part of the squad's ammo and weapons, until they hit the ground and divy it up. That is the experience he would depict, in his stories. All of these guys probably fantasized about having Batman's utility belt, as a kid.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 21, 2018 0:17:44 GMT -5
Spawn was the only Image comic I regularly read. I got interested in the character after reading Batman/Spawn: War Devil, but none of the regular issues were are good as that one crossover.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:53:13 GMT -5
I read Spawn on a regular basis back then. I find this character very unique and intriguing one that's left me wanting for more.
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cee
Full Member
Posts: 105
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Post by cee on Jul 21, 2018 15:56:14 GMT -5
I think a big element of the Image style was that most were self-taught, and got the bulk of their art training by copying comics and using action figures for model reference (I think Liefeld talked of doing this; I know other have). Actually, Lee, McFarlane AND Liefeld (!) all had post-grad art training. Amongst the early Image titles, I used to buy The Maxx, Astro City, Hellshock and maybe a few others. But I must say I really don't get the punk rock parallel, since they all were stars before Image. Early punk is lo-fi and low budget, and Image was the opposite of that. Sure they had no business experience, but that's not really what we were interested back then. Now that they have a truckload of business experience and are all even more wealthy than back then, they're still making crappy comics for the most part, aren't they? They being Portacio, Lee, Liefeld, McFarlane, Larsen, Valentino and Silvestri. The only one out of them that I think was a talented pro before the early Image days is Silvestri, and his upcoming work looks nothing short of fantastic. But Cyberforce, that was anything but punk, as it was him trying to be Jim Lee, someone he wasn't. Sim, Laird & Eastman, Los Hernandez Bros, Peter Bagge, those were the true punks, doing their stuff without need of approval (by some editor)...
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cee
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Post by cee on Jul 21, 2018 16:07:17 GMT -5
You wouldn't tap the Sex Pistols to back Frank Sinatra or Luciano Pavarotti. But he did plant a flag for a new game which, love or hate it, became a recognizable school of art. Bu seriously, from hte get go, real punk was much more cersatile and creative than what most give it credit : This Heat, Wire, Crass, Chrome, The Slits, etc... Punk is about reappropriation of the tools and codes. Therefore, a lot of it was amazing, even to skilled musicians who would never have even thought to approach the instrument that way.
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