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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 7, 2019 19:50:13 GMT -5
I remember being really shocked at the revelation of Luanne being a construct. Visually, it looks like they took their cue from the Robot episode, of the Six Million Dollar Man. When I started looking at the art, I thought Buscema really made the hair look like a helmet, then, her face was torn away to reveal, it kind of was! |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 8, 2019 10:49:11 GMT -5
Defenders #111 Creative Team: Same, except Andy Mushynsky on finishes. Don't know much about him, other than he did a lot of work on GI Joe, some on Power Man & Iron Fist and some odds and ends. Synopsis: Patsy has travelled to Greentown, OH, to search for clues to her father, Josh Walker. She needs to know if he was truly Satan or someone else. She meets with an old work colleague, who starts her off. She runs into a man named Nicholas Eblis, who takes her to a boardinghouse. At night, she heads out in costume and ends up back at the boarding house. Everything starts swirling and she passes out and awakens to the residents around her, when she discovers that Mr Eblis is.....  The Muslims call Satan Iblis (with the I pronounced like a long E) so I wonder if JMD had that in mind when he came up with the name. Also, there was a Battlestar Galactica episode with a charismatic character names Iblis who almost takes control of the fleet, and he turns out to the a devil (or the devil). |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 8, 2019 11:04:28 GMT -5
I remember being really shocked at the revelation of Luanne being a construct. Visually, it looks like they took their cue from the Robot episode, of the Six Million Dollar Man. When I started looking at the art, I thought Buscema really made the hair look like a helmet, then, her face was torn away to reveal, it kind of was! Yep, reminded me of the Fembots from The Bionic Woman. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 8, 2019 11:05:45 GMT -5
Defenders #111Creative Team: Same, except Andy Mushynsky on finishes. Don't know much about him, other than he did a lot of work on GI Joe, some on Power Man & Iron Fist and some odds and ends. Synopsis: Patsy has travelled to Greentown, OH, to search for clues to her father, Josh Walker. She needs to know if he was truly Satan or someone else. She meets with an old work colleague, who starts her off. She runs into a man named Nicholas Eblis, who takes her to a boardinghouse. At night, she heads out in costume and ends up back at the boarding house. Everything starts swirling and she passes out and awakens to the residents around her, when she discovers that Mr Eblis is..... The Muslims call Satan Iblis (with the I pronounced like a long E) so I wonder if JMD had that in mind when he came up with the name. Also, there was a Battlestar Galactica episode with a charismatic character names Iblis who almost takes control of the fleet, and he turns out to the a devil (or the devil). No doubt. He also used Mr. Eblis in a Man-Thing story that appeared in Marvel Fanfare. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 8, 2019 13:58:28 GMT -5
Defenders #112-114
If I enjoyed this so much, why did I leave? Well, Nighthawk was my favorite member and he was taken out of the book. Then, we end up with more supernatural and with the defenders turned into the hangout for the old X-Men. I didn't read any issues; but, covers and characters portrayed on the covers didn't attract me. I also pulled back from a lot of comics, as I was in high school and gearing up for my senior year, come the fall. by this point, I was less enamored of most DC and Marvel, apart from things like the New Teen Titans, X-Men and Legion of Superheroes. X-Men ended with Paul Smith, for me and I discovered First Comics and Jon Sable and American Flagg. I dabbled a bit with other things; but, until college, not many and little Marvel (apart from Daredevil and Miller was coming to an end, there). No, soon it would be Crisis and the DC Renaissance and indie comics, with Classic X-Men being my sole regular Marvel title, for several years, sampling the odd mini and graphic novel or specialty project (like Nick Fury vs Shield and a bit of the Streets of Poison-era Captain America). Yup, X-Men ended with Paul Smith for me, too. Well, I mean after he left and it went on to Romita jr. I thought Paul Smith's run was pretty good, except for the Storm Mohawk at the very end, and that really wasn't his fault. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 14:36:50 GMT -5
If you've noticed a gap in these, it is because I have had real trouble in summoning up the energy to continue reading this era of Defenders. Originally, I stopped reading after the Dr Seuss homage and I am reminded why; it became so generically Marvel that it could have been any cast of characters and teams and the end result wouldn't be vastly different. The stories are decent and JMD is trying to flesh out characters; but, it lacks that spark that Gerber had and even DAK managed a bit of that. I think editorial dictates kind of sapped it of its uniqueness, which was something that happened to a lot of Marvel properties, in this era.
That said, I still like these characters; so, I am soldiering on; but, I may do more summarizing whole storylines than individual issues, depending on how much it grabs my interest.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 15:40:39 GMT -5
Defenders #120-121  Creative Team: JMD-writer, Don Perlin-pencils; Jack Abel, Kim Demulder, Andy Mushynsky, Alan Kupperberg-inkers; Shelly Leferman-letters, George Roussos-colors, Al Milgrom-edits Synopsis: Daimon Hellstrom stumbles to the door of a monastery, seeking help and collapses. he later wakes in a bed, with Father Gossett, the man who taught him at the seminary. Daimon is in a crisis of faith and identity, as he has shed the vestiges of Hell; but doesn't know who Daimon, the man is, anymore. He speaks of his love for Patsy, then shows his true self to the father. The father tells him he is a good man and must believe to find himself. He stays with the monks and meets a Brother Joshua, who he spends time talking with, about the simplicity of life there...  At the defenders brownstone, Patsy Walker wakes from a nightmare, with the news that Daimon is in trouble...  Hank tries to calm her, that she is having a nightmare; but, she believes it is her mental powers, tuning into Daimon's danger. Later, while working out at the YMCA, Patsy persists, while they do a gymnastics routine. Meanwhile, some guys get all male chauvinist with Val and one gets a barbell wrapped around him...  At the monastery, Daimon's prayer is interrupted by a pressure on his chest. he finds Brother Joshua also in prayer, but unleashing great energy. He asks Daimon for help and to keep his secret. Later, as Brother Joshua is to be fully inducted into the monastic life, his true personality emerges; he is the Miracle man.  He starts tossing monks about and Daimon transforms to fight him, only to find that MM is more powerful and he steals Daimon's Darksoul and trident..  Patsy shares her mental images with overmind, who is able to track Daimon's location and the Defenders head there, in a Quinjet. When they arrive, statues of monks shoot up and the jet clips one, causing the ship to crash. They are attacked by other inanimate objects, now animated and fight their way into the monastery, where they find Miracle Man, who has turned the monks and Daimon into statues. He restores them, then whisks the Defenders to Java. there, he says he is out to prove his godhood by turning Earth into a paradise, for his followers to believe in him. The Miracle Man shows them disease and poverty, then cures it, which leads to debate about gods making the world better and man having to choose his own fate and then we see what happens when someone does and the god, MM, flips out. Then, it's back to fighting and they combined might finally forces the Darksoul out of te Miracle Man...  Thoughts: Interesting allegory of divine intervention and mankind building his own paradise, thus earning it. That's all well and good but the argument and the metaphor, to me, does more to deny the existence of a deity than confirm it; but, then, I'm an atheist. It is a rare story that deals in faith and belief in a deity, though it reaffirms that the Asgardians choose not to interfere in mankind, though they could. All very philosophical. There are some humorous moments, such as the sight of Gargoyle in a nightshirt and cap and Val in 80s aerobics wear (leotard and legwarmers) lifting weights, then dealing with macho jerks. Perlin gets to do a bit of cheesecake, with Patsy and Val in leotards, though it doesn't come across as cheesecake. You do wonder why they wouldn't work out in costume. Maybe they are in the laundry.
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Post by brutalis on Mar 21, 2019 16:59:37 GMT -5
Hang in there codystarbuck because as mediocre as it may seem, your reviews do shed light upon an old and often forgotten series that while mediocre in some ways is still entertaining and worth a read. And with the state of comics today it is a nice reminder that current doesn't always equal best. There is still some good moments and thoughts to found in reading Defenders. Even when the team shifts to Ex-Men Modus Operandi you will find things of interest to discuss. Enjoying your reviews very much! Wonderful to get to reminisce about a series which I grew up reading and collecting. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 17:11:25 GMT -5
Defenders #122-125    Creative Team JMD-writer, Don Perlin-pencils, Kim Demulder-inks, Shelly Lefferman & Janice Chiang-letters, Christie Scheele-colors, Al Milgrom & Carl Potts-edits This storyline transitions the book from Al Milgrom's editorial control to Carl Potts and the transition to the new team line-up and re-branding as the New Defenders (with added ingredient X!) Synopsis: We wrap up at the monastery, where Brother joshua will stay and it seems Daimon will, as well, until he tries to walk away from Patsy and the defenders turns into a romance comic...  Well, isn't that nice. They'll make a Helluva couple! After some hijinks with Hank's new puppy and allusions to Daimon & Patsy making the Beast With Two Backs, we get the announcement that they are getting married! Val is jealous, Dolly is wary of Daimon and feels she is losing Patsy. Patsy assures Dolly that she is more a mother to her and there will be a place with here and Daimon in California, once they are settled. She tries to talk to Val, who is jealous and feeling lost, but who gets a call to come to Asgard to do Odin a solid. The rest of the gang meet Bobby Drake, who drops in on Hank and they go out to dinner, where Hank gets yelled at by his girl, after missing their date and Dolly and Isaac cut a rug. Oh, and the originals get zapped by the new Elf With a Gun.  We next see Hank, Bobby, & Isaac visit the Vision and Scarlet Witch, just as three women come to kidnap the Vision, for the Secret Empire...  By the way, the naked chick with the cloud cover is only supposed to be 17. Comics are messed up, sometimes. The three women are Cloud (the teenager), Seraph (the albino vamp) and Harridian (the old witch). They don't get along well and they tick off Scarlet witch and get dumped on pretty hard in the ensuing fight, which the good guys win. meanwhile, the Elf plays around with the defenders, then shows them a vision of the world of the future, which they caused...  The Elf takes them back before the Tribunal, where they learn that Doc encounters an alien ship, calls in the others and fighting breaks out. The Elf is an agent sent through time to remove people who endanger the timeline for a better future, which explains the activities of the original Elf With a Gun (no it doesn't; see below). While this goes on, Val arrives in Asgard and Odin's favor is revealed to involve Moondragon.  Next issue has the defenders meet up with Val and Moondragon, as her favor is explained...  The headband keeps her from using her powers to control others, which totally honks her off. Oh, and Warren Worthington has arrived and is reunited with his fellow X-Men. And Dolly announces that Patsy & Daimon's wedding is Saturday. And Buzz Baxter turns up as Mad Dog, servant of the Secret Empire.  Meanwhile, the original Defenders learn that their interfering with the alien ship led to a lot of death and the aliens attacking the Earth and destroying it. they can stop it by never coming together as the defenders, again. Which they agree to! Back on Earth, the gang heads to Patsy's wedding, Hank proposes forming a new team, the Secret Empire sicks Mutant Force on the event, much mayhem ensues, Patsy kicks Buzz a bit, but gets overwhelmed and daimon decks him like Rocky dropping someone making a move on Adrienne. The wedding comes off, Hank gets his new team, though is stuck with Moondragon and the originals depart forever, as the book hits a new phase.     The issue ends with a letters page, where editorial tries to rationalize that the change has nothing to do with low sales and other noise and says that beast has been trying to turn it into an honest to goodness super-team. Unh-huh. Thoughts: Um......yeah. This is kind of why I have been having trouble with this book. On the one hand, the character development has been great and JMD really shines, here. On the other, the plots haven't wowed me. The whole tribunal, future cataclysm thing is old and cliched and serves only to remove the big guns from the book. The retconning of Elf With A Gun into some agent of time, is total BS. Gerber created him to be a metaphor for random violence, not some kind of cosmic time cop. That is just rationalizing away Gerber weirdness, while kicking the corpse of his work, after the legal battle. The idea was pretty much dismissed by the fans and was mostly forgotten, afterward. Mutant Force returns; but, who really cares? They were cyphers and they are disposed of quickly. it's a Marvel wedding, so we need some kind of super-villain drama. Buzz Baxter is the only relevant element in that. Patsy gets a shot, then has to be rescued by Daimon, so feminism doesn't quite win the day. Moondragon kicks some but physically, then uses her mental powers on Buzz, even though it hurts to do so, thanks to the headband. Speaking of the headband, I wonder where they got the idea?   Moondragon had tried to conquer aliens, in the Avengers, causing the death of Drax, her father. She was taken by Thor to be judged by Odin, since she fancied herself as a god. Well, here is her punishment. There is a nice back and forth between the bitchy Moondragon and Valkyrie, who basically kicks her ass physically and verbally, calling her "woman," which angers the self-appointed "goddess." Kim Demulder's inks do help bring a bit of life to Don Perlin's pencils and the book looks better than it has, for a while. He then promptly takes a break to do a Beast/Dazzler mini (Beauty and the Beast, with Ann Nocenti). So, we get Alan Kupperberg, next, as we transition in to the New defenders, which looks a lot like the old X-Men. gee, that wouldn't have anything to do with the popularity of that series, would it? This is a start to marvel suddenly wanting the X on everything, as it was their biggest selling series. However, the New Defenders will be conveniently gone by the time we revive the original X-men lineup, as X-Factor.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 17:28:23 GMT -5
ps. Cloud is 17, yet this is how she is depicted. Isaac even says, "Why, she's just a little....", before being interrupted. Little girl? Yep. A naked little girl, covered by clouds. Well, okay, nearly an adult; but, definitely not an adult. This is the era of Porky's and other teen sex comedies and the idea of sexualized teenagers is a rather nasty little trend. Sure, teenagers have always engaged in sex; but, there is a definitely nasty edge to using that for entertainment. It treads far too close to pedophilia for my liking. Comics have danced around this for some time, both in the Archie books (Betty and Veronica are still minors, after all), the Teen Titans and elsewhere. The original Titans were pretty chaste, though Wonder Girl got some sexier duds, though you could debated her red onesie with her red, white, blue and gold bathing suit. When the new Titans were launched, Donna and Kory were explicitly said to be over 18, so there was not talk of underage sexual situations, though Donnas much older boyfriend/husband does give one pause. it was the addition of Terra, and her implied sexual relationship with Deathstroke that really crossed a line, though it seemed like everyone had convenient amnesia through the storyline. In recent years we have had the treatment of Mary Marvel and some others, though the Legion of Superheroes gets a pass, as most were depicted as being more in that 18-19 age, or more, by the time they were something other than a teen club, despite the rather adult nature of their costumes and bodies. You can consider that longer lives of the 30th Century means that they are considered to be younger than they chronologically are, in our eyes. hence, they appear as adults to us; but are considered youths to the people of their time. Even in our own history, it wasn't that long ago that 15 was a common age for a bride. However, this is not the 1800s, or even the Depression. This is 1983 (publication) and this is a decidedly underaged girl, regardless of how "on the cusp" 17 might be. Comics has problems with this kind of thing, which isn't too surprising, when you hear stories from the few women who have worked in the field about the behaviors of many of the men; and, especially, when you hear some of Colleen Doran's stories, from when she was a teen, breaking into the business. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 17:34:46 GMT -5
Hang in there codystarbuck because as mediocre as it may seem, your reviews do shed light upon an old and often forgotten series that while mediocre in some ways is still entertaining and worth a read. And with the state of comics today it is a nice reminder that current doesn't always equal best. There is still some good moments and thoughts to found in reading Defenders. Even when the team shifts to Ex-Men Modus Operandi you will find things of interest to discuss. Enjoying your reviews very much! Wonderful to get to reminisce about a series which I grew up reading and collecting. Oh, I'm hanging on; but, I've been counting down the issues, like a draftee in his tour of Vietnam. 27 and a wake up! We'll just have to see if a more standard superhero approach can re-stir my interest. i admit I am not a supernatural kind of reader and that hasn't helped things; but, previous teams mixed the supernatural with some old fashioned action/adventure. I'm pretty tired of demons and wizards; so, let's see what new threats arise. Seriously, though, if Marvel wants to retread stuff (like the Elf), how about Scorpio and his Zodiac? Jake Fury is dead; but, a new Zodiac threat would be nice, or some loonies, like the Headmen, or a Cobalt Man. Just as a palate cleanser. Gerber had a bit more variety to his mix than Hannigan or DeMatteis and DAK kind of followed him in that. I am going into these blind; so, I will find out, soon enough. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 22, 2019 11:57:03 GMT -5
By the way, the naked chick with the cloud cover is only supposed to be 17. Comics are messed up, sometimes. But then it's revealed that this teenage girl is actually a sentient nebula...uh, yeah. Like you said, comics are messed up sometimes. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 22, 2019 12:04:25 GMT -5
Yeah, #122-125 was kinda goofy, and I agree that the elf with a gun retcon was...regrettable. I do love seeing Moondragon get her comeuppance, though.  and yes, I was one of those X-Zombies who started collecting this title regularly when it became a hangout for ex-X-Men. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 22, 2019 12:10:49 GMT -5
Kim DeMulder gives Perlin's art a nice moodyness. Peter Gillis would give us some creepy stories down the line so this is appropriate.
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Post by berkley on Mar 22, 2019 12:37:03 GMT -5
Not only is it pretty creepy that that Cloud character is supposed to be only 17 yrs old, but it isn't even a sexy visual, IMO: those little puffs of smoke covering her naughty bits look silly rather than mysterious or provocative or whatever it is they were going for.
And of course I really dislike the whole redemption story for Moondragon, since it derives entirely from a shockingly bad - and IMO misogynistic - story by Shooter in which she tried to take over a planet with her mental powers. Abysmal.
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