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Post by berkley on Jun 7, 2019 1:41:57 GMT -5
"The Heartbreak Kid" was and probably still is one of the odder superhero stories I ever read. I found it very unsettling and I think I had to read it a few times before I really got it. (I was pretty young when it came out and it deals with some mature topics.) I think it's a highlight of Gillis' run. The plant monster storyline is pretty horrific in its own right. The panel with the elongated arms reaching out of the stable haunted me.
And I really liked Moondragon's new costume.
Not the worst one she's had over the years, but I still think the old green swimsuit has never been improved on, as sexist and objectifying as it might seem today to most readers. The combination of the revealing, Vampirella-style costume with the stern, forbidding personality made for a great dramatic contrast and I think the character loses something when that's taken away. But of course in my view, that's the least of the wrong steps that's been taken with Moondragon over the years.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 8, 2019 19:05:40 GMT -5
So, skipping over the previous Defenders revival attempts/trademark maintenance and starting with the one that most excited me, when I heard. Defenders #1 (2005) I hope Hulk just has an itch. I'd hate to see Hulk boogers! Creative Team: Kieth Giffen & JM DeMatteis-writers, Kevin Maguire-art, Dave Sharpe (the guy who double Tom Tyler in the Adv of Captain Marvel?)-letters, Chris Sotomayor-colors, Andy Schmidt-edits Synopsis: Dr Strange is woken up by Wong, who sounds like he has had one too many Hary Host of Haggoths. Turns out it is Nightmare, speaking through Wong, while needling Dr Strange about calling Wong his "manservant." Not PC, Doc! he tells him that Umar and Dormammu have teamed up and all Hell's about to break loose! Doc asks why Nightmare cares and he replies that Dormy has outlawed dreams in his realm; and, ya know, tight economy and all. Then, we get a W Bush joke, about WMDs...  Doc goes to put the band back together. He finds Bruce Banner in New Mexico (where else?) and they argue in the desert, though no Hulk episodes (lots of Bewitched references, though). Doc totally guilts Banner into joining. Next it is Namor. They argue; but Subby joins, without needing Aretha Franklin, James brown, or Ray Charles to do a musical number to convince him. he grabs a black hat and sunglasses and heads off, to the tune of the Peter Gunn Theme. Or is that just in my head? We cut to Umar (who is not the chick in Tarantino's films, with the funky feet) and Dormammu, who got a Maguire makeover...  Umar is now being dressed by Jean-Paul Gautier, it would seem. Giffen and DeMatteis indulge in some silliness...  ...while giving some exposition. It's not exactly going well for Doc Strange, either...  Before you know it, we have a Hulk situation and Strange magicks them away to Dormy's domain; but, missed his coordinates a bit and Hulk is behind the barrier that keeps out the Mindless Ones (Justin Bieber fans?) Only Dormy can drop that barrier. Namor becomes the second to ask about the Silver Surfer and we see how Doc's invitation went unheated, as Surfer is busing hanging ten with Gidget, Moondoggie, Frankie, Anette, and possibly Duke Williams, while listening to dick Dale shred an amp and the Chantays thread a Pipeline. Back in Dormy's dimension, trouble arrives, as the issue ends. Thoughts: Defenders go Bwa-Ha-Ha! Pretty much the same formula as JLI, with the gang in fine form. giffen and deMatteis are old Defenders vets, so this feels right and Maguire makes it look great, even if his Subby and Surfer look rather cartoony. Namor is really stripped down and Maguire seems to be going for an early Everett look; but, it just feels a bit weird, like an animation cel or something. Surfer is also rather minimalist, which gives him a really innocent look, which is also fitting. Dormammu looks appropriately sinister and loses the dopey purple outfit. Maguire also makes the flames a bit more lively. Umar looks like she is going clubbing (well, THOSE kind of clubs) and less old school. Definitely makes this feel a bit more modern. Maguire's Doc Strange model feels familiar; but, I can't place it. He looks rather middle aged, which is appropriate. it's not the classic look, yet it doesn't feel out of place. Of course, he makes them very expressive. He still does the best facials in comics. So, supernatural threat, bickering team, things not going well in the magic department, screwy things happening; seems like old times! Now all we need is Elf With a 'Tec Nine! (holding it sideways, no doubt...) |
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Post by badwolf on Jun 8, 2019 21:23:27 GMT -5
Hmm, so I guess comedy Strange isn't an entirely new thing. I guess if I can give deMatteis a pass I can feel better about Jason Aaron's. Almost got mad at poking fun at the Gargoyle but then I remember that he created him.  |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 9, 2019 3:31:35 GMT -5
I read this last year, and found it funny enough, although by the last issue the humor started to grate on me a bit.
Just before that, I read the Defenders/Order series (by Larsen & Busiek and then Duffy & Busiek), and honestly I liked that one far more.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 9, 2019 18:06:10 GMT -5
Defenders (2005) #2 "Nyah-yah-yah!" "Grrrrrrrrrrr" "Hulk Smash!" Yes, true believers; the Hulk is Curly Howard! Nyuck-yuck-yuck!  Creative Team: Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire et al.... Synopsis: Hulk is still caught on the wrong side of Dormammu's barrier to keep out the Mindless Ones (People who pay to see Transformers movies?). Namor keeps hurling Dormy's armored hench-things at it; but, it isn't weakening. he and Doc bicker like Al and Peg Bundy, minus the virility and toilet jokes, and Hulk goes down under sheer weight of numbers. Umar takes a shower, for some fan service...  Dormy's place appears to have been designed by Sauron's architect. They bicker like siblings, though you have to wonder about siblings who stand there while their sister is washed by little green faceless dudes and vice versa. Sure their name isn't Lannister? Dormy can't take the heat and gets out of the kitchen and sees his goons getting their clocks cleaned by Strange and Namor. Dormy informs Strange that his and Umar's powers are linked, so he swats Doc like a bug. Then, he decides to let the Hulk in to play...  Not sure how much Banner is in control, at this point; but, it doesn't appear to be much. Umar is watching via crystal ball (does that thing get HBO?) and seems to have the hots for Hulk's bod. She monologues about messing with Dormy's princess, who was his only love. Meanwhile, Dormy is busy torturing Doc and, oh, look, he has Doc's amulet!  Umar is having the Hulk installed in her chambers (and it sounds like that is the plan after she rules the universe) and Dormy turns up for some more sibling rivalry. Doc is whining and even Namor can't stand it, and we cut to Surfer and his ne bros, dude!  Remember ladies; he's basically a silver Ken doll. Just saying... Dormy and Umar show up in the Sanctum, surprise Wong and sic the dogs on him (though Umar is acting like a cat in heat). Dormy then opens Doc's amulet and steps through the portal (after Umar goads him, and ends up face to face with Eternity. Thoughts: Lots of bickering. I mean LOTS of bickering. Like, this could have been a Fox sitcom. Umar goads Dormammu about his love life; but, she seems to be the horny one. Can you tell this is being written by nerdy old men? Maguire keeps her in a bikini, for her bath/shower, yet some poses suggest she is covering her....charms; so I don't know is he drew her nude and it spooked people or what. Let's put it this way, though: she has stripper proportions, so, a bikini isn't much of an addition. Umar seems to be setting Dormammu up to be imprisoned somewhere or something, with herself as ruler of the universe (and Hulk as her own little green gigolo). Something tells me that we will need some Blondie music, before long... (Used to have the VHS of this concert; really fantastic show, though the band was looking rough...) They seriously need Umar for the Dr Strange sequel.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2019 9:47:13 GMT -5
Defenders (2005) #3 Is it just me or does every supervillain have this picture taken? Creative Team: BWA-HA-HA, LLC Synopsis: When we last left Dormammu and Umar, they were facing Eternity. Well, they have defeated him and are about to enter Eternity, when Umar voices objections about the "ick" of it. Dormy goes on and Umar completes her con of her brother. he is then going to remake the universe in his image.  Someone from Administration comes to collect the defenders for torture and Doc cons him into giving Subby some water, lest he die prematurely, on said administrator's watch. Lots of suckers in this issue. Umar heads back home and collects her Hulk statue, then the term "bumping uglies" gets quite literal...  Surfer is still hanging with his surf buddies, who (behind his monologing back) turn into demons. Umar has broken the Hulk and he reverts back to banner, who is really, really relaxed...  Namor got a bit of water and then unloads on Dormy's minions. He frees Strange and the head back to Earth, to find it under Domry's control. They travel incognito, as Namor channels Spock...  Of course, Dormy spots them and alerts Dr Strange, who looks suspiciously like a bald Baron Mordo. This is Strange if he had become an evil sorcerer. Thoughts: getting a bit more explicit than usual, with the Hulk sex jokes! Lots of dialogue gags in this one. Umar has suckered her brother and Dr Strange suckers Dormammu's people. They are back on an Earth where Dormammu holds sway. Surfer is still doing F-all. Lot of set up for the big finish, here.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2019 10:02:28 GMT -5
Defenders (2005) #4 Strange has a scalpel, 'cause he is a doctor! Creative Team: The usual misfits. Synopsis: Umar is torturing Banner, to get her mighty green love toy back and Doc and Namor are walking around, in disguise, which Namor questions how well they are hidden...  We see Dormy's version of Strange (the Mordo-Strange, who likes to torture Clea, without a safe word). He is watching Doc and Namor, then sends out Spider-Man and Daredevil to fetch them...  Rather literal reality. Doc and Namor run into the alternate Banner, before they meet the alternate Avengers and Doc faces his nasty self. Namor gets rescued, by himself...  Doc is taken out by Evil Doc and Surfer is still hanging out on the beach, oblivious to his demonic buddies. Thoughts: Gettin' all kinds of meta. The alternate Banner has the limited mind of the Hulk; but, no massive power. Alternate Namor seems to be leading some kind of resistance to Dormammu. Umar really is warm for the Hulk's form and wants him back, pronto. Lots of talk of hope; but, little evidence of it. Strange admits that he has no plan. Pretty par for the course, when you think about it.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 11, 2019 10:12:55 GMT -5
Nice nod to Bill Everett.
This series is way sillier than current iterations, so I guess I really can't complain about Jason Aaron. I am just going to tell myself that this takes place in an alternate reality...
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2019 10:31:15 GMT -5
Defenders (2005) #5 Creative Team: Kieth, JM, Kev and the Rest.... Synopsis: Doc Strange is being paraded around by his bad self. he has the iron gag on him, just like the old days, when Mordo was betraying the Ancient One. Good call back! Alternate Namor fills in Subby, about this world's Defenders and hatches a plan...  which involves an ally or two...  Oooooooookay....................lot of BDSM imagery in this series................... Umar wants rid of her brother and everyone wants the world back; so, team-up! Meanwhile, Strange is brought before Dormy, who manifests himself physically, then gets abra-cadabraed...   Lots of fighting follows, with Umar feeding Strange power, then banner gets tossed out a window to Hulk out and it ends badly for Dormy...  Umar returns things to status quo, Banner and namor bicker, and Dormy looks rather like a scorched Popeye...  and Surfer finally has enough of.....erm...surfers....  Thoughts: Well, isn't that special! Giffen & DeMatteis cap off a dozen magician jokes with the final punchline, as Strange uses illusion to trick Dormammu. Umar ends up mistress of the universe; but, the Defenders are okay with that, for now. She doesn't need to torture people. Surfer is totally useless, to the end, which was both a way to keep his power off the table and do a bunch of surfer jokes. The whole thing is pretty darn wordy, as you would expect; but, Maguire gets room to play. It's pretty satisfying, though nowhere near as funny as JLI or the laer Super Buddies JLI follow-ups, from the same time period. Still, this feels more like a classic Defenders story to me, with maybe a bit more of a Looney Tunes feel, than standard Gerber satire. And that's it for the Defenders. I'm not covering that Secret defenders nonsense, with Wolverine and the other Cameo Crusaders, nor can I stomach Eric Larson's art to cover the one he did, with Busiek. Anyone else wants to tackle them, feel free. For me, this is the end of the Defenders. This was actually the first time I read the bulk of the material outside of Gerber and DAK & Giffen; which was enlightening. However, Gerber is still the standard for the Defenders and Giffen probably gave it its best art. This series progressed from a Namor/Hulk/Dr Strange team-u to a glorified X-book; but, carved quite a niche for itself along the way. I still recommend Night on Bald Mountain, for the best of the early stories, the whole Gerber run, Who Remembers Scorpio, and the Guardians of the Galaxy revival (after their one appearance). Spend some time with the Bozos and see if you don't think Gerald Ford wasn't that bad, all things considered (he was Einstein compared to some I could name). If only the MCU would give us the Defenders, rather than what passed for it on Netflix (haven't watched; but, not what I would consider a Defenders series).
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2019 10:32:08 GMT -5
Nice nod to Bill Everett. This series is way sillier than current iterations, so I guess I really can't complain about Jason Aaron. I am just going to tell myself that this takes place in an alternate reality... Earth BWA-HA-HA |
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 11, 2019 11:15:58 GMT -5
Looking back at these, I only have one problem with it. It's what Dick Ayers once referred to as... "OVERDONE coloring".
It gets in the way.
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Post by berkley on Jun 11, 2019 11:44:13 GMT -5
I remember looking at this one a bit when it came out. For the most part, it didn't appeal to me, neither on its own terms nor as a Defenders story. The only aspect I thought was a partial success was Umar: I liked the way Maguire drew her and on the rare occasions when one of their jokes worked, it was usually centred around that character. Their re-make of Dormammu, OTOH, was a complete failure, to my eyes (and ears).
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Post by badwolf on Jun 11, 2019 12:08:41 GMT -5
I remember looking at this one a bit when it came out. For the most part, it didn't appeal to me, neither on its own terms nor as a Defenders story. The only aspect I thought was a partial success was Umar: I liked the way Maguire drew her and on the rare occasions when one of their jokes worked, it was usually centred around that character. Their re-make of Dormammu, OTOH, was a complete failure, to my eyes (and ears). Yeah, Dormammu is cringey, totally out of character. |
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Post by berkley on Jun 12, 2019 1:12:50 GMT -5
I remember looking at this one a bit when it came out. For the most part, it didn't appeal to me, neither on its own terms nor as a Defenders story. The only aspect I thought was a partial success was Umar: I liked the way Maguire drew her and on the rare occasions when one of their jokes worked, it was usually centred around that character. Their re-make of Dormammu, OTOH, was a complete failure, to my eyes (and ears). Yeah, Dormammu is cringey, totally out of character.
Yup. For me, if that character is to work right, he always has to be "the Dread Dormammu", so if you don't get that part right, you've failed.
I have to partially withdraw my comment about liking how Maguire drew Umar: I hadn't noticed a few of those samples when I posted that, and I have to say that I really don't like some (not all) of the bikini panels, in which for some reason Maguire changed her from the stately and curvaceous beauty he drew elsewhere to a weird sort of boyish figure that I find mildly creepy (and not in a good way).
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2019 12:11:51 GMT -5
Well, my rebuttal to that is that this is a deliberate comedy, which satirizes the normal thing,ala Mad. Yeah, the problem is they try to have their cake and eat it too, by having a parody and a straight adventure. It worked better in JLI as there was a stronger comedic through-line, while they also created their own threats (mostly) or repurposed old ones that hadn't been used much. I take this as pure comedy and never really found any of the Marvel demonic figures to be all that scary, because they were never really allowed (by the Code and by editorial) to be that demonic. Besides, I can't take a demon seriously who dresses like this...  Ditko or no Ditko, he just looks goofy, to me. Now, in the context of Ditko's initial story, Dormammu is more of a real threat and Dr Strange's defeat of him is a major accomplishment; but, after that, he is defeated time and again. Even by the Defenders. It was a good story; but, I felt it worked because Dormammu is a looming threat, rather than a direct one. The defenders are trying to stop his stepping into this world, by his acolytes opening a doorway. I did kind of feel it was undercut by Strange defeating Dormammu solo, after his astral form is returned to his body. Dr Strange was allowed to be too powerful and the cut off from the body gimmick got used way too much. So, for me, I liken this to the use of the Emperor and Darth Vader in Robot Chicken; they will act out of character for the sake of the satire. For the same reason, i rarely viewed an Impossible Man story the same as a regular FF story, or Mxyzptlk appearance in Superman the same as facing Luthor. |
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