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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 3, 2023 4:44:26 GMT -5
Were they TOD reprints ?
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Post by driver1980 on Nov 3, 2023 4:58:45 GMT -5
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Post by Calidore on Nov 3, 2023 9:16:28 GMT -5
Hulk and Dracula on a cover is bizarre.
And now I'm imagining Dracula attacking Bruce Banner, getting a dinner of gamma-irradiated blood, and becoming Hulkula.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Nov 3, 2023 11:25:48 GMT -5
Sure, it's easy enough to find West Coast Avengers among the W's if you know it exists and remember to go look for it. Marvel was hoping that some casual fans would pick up the latest issue of Avengers and notice the other book next to it, and go, "oh wow, another Avengers comic! Cool!" I think that was the idea. On the other hand, I remember once going to Tower Records (sigh) and looking up Martha Reeves and the Vendellas. Depending on whether I looked in the albums, the CDs, or the singles, it was filed under 'M', 'R', and 'V'!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 15:20:52 GMT -5
I hear the strategy they were going for with the "W" on West Coast Avengers, but at the same time, you had Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man, and Web of Spider-Man concurrent (and sometimes even additional stuff at times like say Untold Tales of Spider-Man) which seemed to work just fine.
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Post by driver1980 on Nov 3, 2023 18:15:53 GMT -5
I hear the strategy they were going for with the "W" on West Coast Avengers, but at the same time, you had Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man, and Web of Spider-Man concurrent (and sometimes even additional stuff at times like say Untold Tales of Spider-Man) which seemed to work just fine. I don’t see how hard it can be if a person knows the alphabet. It surely is no harder than, say, picking up Gambit and then heading to the shelf with Wolverine on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 18:25:59 GMT -5
I hear the strategy they were going for with the "W" on West Coast Avengers, but at the same time, you had Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man, and Web of Spider-Man concurrent (and sometimes even additional stuff at times like say Untold Tales of Spider-Man) which seemed to work just fine. I don’t see how hard it can be if a person knows the alphabet. It surely is no harder than, say, picking up Gambit and then heading to the shelf with Wolverine on. I agree, and even if someone hadn't heard of the title before and known to look in "W", most times do you really go to the comic book shop and just look at one display shelf?
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Post by MWGallaher on Nov 4, 2023 6:49:41 GMT -5
I assume it's generally good marketing strategy to be one of the first options that consumers see, so it may have been not just wanting to have the book placed next to the main Avengers book, but also positioning it nearer the start of the new comics racks. There's an obvious argument against this strategy, though: most of the comic's potential readers were almost certain to browse the opposite end of an alphabetically arranged comics rack to look for Uncanny X-Men. X-Men readers would also quite possibly have some continuing fondness for John Byrne, making it seem like an even better strategy to me. It occurs to me, though, that given Byrne's notoriously mercurial personality, the true motivation behind the name change might have been to keep "his" comic as far away from the X-Men as possible. That seems quite petty, but not inconsistent with Byrne's reputation.
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Post by driver1980 on Nov 4, 2023 8:33:47 GMT -5
On sale 25 years ago today: I miss the Essential line.
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Post by jason on Nov 4, 2023 9:04:35 GMT -5
re: the renaming of West Coast Avengers to Avengers West Coast
This was also around the time that every book in a given franchise was simply given the same logo for every book. WCA, Spectacular Spider-Man and Web of Spider-Man all had their own distinct logos when they started, but by this point they all had the same logo and you could only tell the difference by looking closely at the cover.
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Post by driver1980 on Nov 4, 2023 9:45:06 GMT -5
I don’t see how hard it can be if a person knows the alphabet. It surely is no harder than, say, picking up Gambit and then heading to the shelf with Wolverine on. I agree, and even if someone hadn't heard of the title before and known to look in "W", most times do you really go to the comic book shop and just look at one display shelf? No. I’m the same if in a CD store, DVD store, bookstore, etc. I remember once going to my LCS to pick up G.I. Joe. It was the only book I planned to buy that month, but even when I picked it up, I still - well, curiosity got the better of me - I browsed some other shelves. Seems like there’s some dumbing down at times. I heard a rumour once that, prior to the 90s, publishers didn’t publish many books about wrestling because some assumed wrestling fans were illiterate. While wrestling books did exist prior to the 90s, it seems it was only the Rock’s autobiography that really made wrestling books a thing. I’d also heard that some advertisers were reluctant to advertise during wrestling shows because of assumptions about fans (fans come in all shapes and sizes, and I’d wager most can read). I’d heard rumours once that some UK publishers of annuals didn’t use the word “annual” because some assumed a minority of readers might not know what the word means. If there is any truth in the above, the problem is with individuals making judgments about people’s literacy skills. And if it’s true that West Coast Avengers became Avengers West Coast because of assumptions about people not knowing where to find anything that began with a W, or because some people assumed folk would only look at one shelf, well that’s a little sad, I feel. On the subject of the west coast, I think a location should always precede anything descriptive. If I was going to sell used cars, West Coast Automobiles would sound better than Automobiles West Coast. For any product, really. Just my view. Certainly, businesses in my city go for that, e.g Birmingham Indoor Market, or the Lichfield Tea Company (Tea Company Lichfield doesn’t sound as good).
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Post by Rob Allen on Nov 4, 2023 10:51:20 GMT -5
From Back Issue #121, Page 5 - issuu.com/twomorrows/docs/backissue121preview:"Initially entitled King Conan, the [...] series was retitled Conan the King [...], presumably to have it listed on comic-shop order forms next to the regular Conan title." edit: I'm not sure if this refers to the forms used by subscribers to order comics from the shop, or the forms used by the shop to order comics from the distributor.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 4, 2023 10:53:56 GMT -5
I agree, and even if someone hadn't heard of the title before and known to look in "W", most times do you really go to the comic book shop and just look at one display shelf? No. I’m the same if in a CD store, DVD store, bookstore, etc. I remember once going to my LCS to pick up G.I. Joe. It was the only book I planned to buy that month, but even when I picked it up, I still - well, curiosity got the better of me - I browsed some other shelves. Seems like there’s some dumbing down at times. I heard a rumour once that, prior to the 90s, publishers didn’t publish many books about wrestling because some assumed wrestling fans were illiterate. While wrestling books did exist prior to the 90s, it seems it was only the Rock’s autobiography that really made wrestling books a thing. I’d also heard that some advertisers were reluctant to advertise during wrestling shows because of assumptions about fans (fans come in all shapes and sizes, and I’d wager most can read). I’d heard rumours once that some UK publishers of annuals didn’t use the word “annual” because some assumed a minority of readers might not know what the word means. If there is any truth in the above, the problem is with individuals making judgments about people’s literacy skills. And if it’s true that West Coast Avengers became Avengers West Coast because of assumptions about people not knowing where to find anything that began with a W, or because some people assumed folk would only look at one shelf, well that’s a little sad, I feel. On the subject of the west coast, I think a location should always precede anything descriptive. If I was going to sell used cars, West Coast Automobiles would sound better than Automobiles West Coast. For any product, really. Just my view. Certainly, businesses in my city go for that, e.g Birmingham Indoor Market, or the Lichfield Tea Company (Tea Company Lichfield doesn’t sound as good). The book part is true, except it was Mick Foley's book, which went to Number One, on the New York Times Bestseller List, that led to the explosion, not the Rock's. Foley's was a great read and rightly praised, while the Rock's was obviously ghost written and had a stupid gimmick of switching between "reality" and being in character. Foley wrote his own and spoke in his own voice. He also did the audio, which was great. However, publishers didn't feel there was much of a market for anything other than photo-centric books, because promoters kept kayfabe and the wrestlers weren't going to be honest. There were assumptions about the audience not being big readers, rather than illiterate. The same was true of NASCAR, until the first couple of books sold out. Comic book publishers assumed that their audience turned over every 5 years or so and that did use to be true, as young kids discovered comics and older kids moved on to other things. Then, fans became writers and artists and started catering more to fans and more of them hung around longer. Sadly, the by-product was the idea that little kids comics weren't valuable so why bother with them, which lost them the new audience. It got worse when fans became retailers and wouldn't stock kids comics and were outright hostile to young kids in their stores, in more than a few cases I witnessed. Branding is hardly an exact science and you are kind of comparing apples and oranges, in a couple of examples there. With West Coast Avengers, the emphasis, regardless of how you configure the title, is on "Avengers." That is what they are selling. With West Coast Automobiles. you are emphasizing the "West Coast" brand. Automobiles are generic, while West Coast is specific, but Avengers is the specific product in that situation, with West Coast being a descriptive modifier. Personally, I think West Coast Avengers sounds better; but, since they never get around to saying what they are avenging, it's all a bit silly, anyway. At least you knew the Defenders were defending something, and the X-Men were "Xavier's Men (sorry gals). The Avengers were just called Avengers because Wasp thought it sounded cool and all of the guys wanted to date her, so they went along with it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2023 11:06:12 GMT -5
Maybe they should have focused less on renaming the title, and more on not completely destroying Mockingbird, Vision, and Scarlet Witch. Loved the start of that series, but what a train wreck it turned into.
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Post by jason on Nov 4, 2023 13:56:36 GMT -5
Just remembered, they did the same thing to Solo Avengers, retitling it Avengers Spotlight.
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