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Post by driver1980 on Jan 5, 2024 7:17:28 GMT -5
Each to their own, but I couldn’t disagree more:
Okay, he’s stating one thing as fact when he says, “It’s because they don’t want to be criticized.” Unless he knows the mind of every artist, he’s speculating.
Perhaps some just believe that sensible proportions are better. I do.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2024 7:44:29 GMT -5
Kirby's anatomy was way off at times but it was great. Art is about expression and sometimes it becomes awesome with distortion.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 5, 2024 8:03:39 GMT -5
Kirby's anatomy was way off at times but it was great. Art is about expression and sometimes it becomes awesome with distortion. True. I suppose everyone’s mileage varies. I don’t really like the steroid look we saw in the likes of Cap and Wolverine at times. My preference would be Spidey and Wolverine drawn by, say, John Romita. My opinion is that exaggeration certainly works for humour comics (e.g. Desperate Dan in The Dandy), and I don’t even mind the slightly exaggerated proportions we saw in Bruce Timm’s superheroes, but when bodies look like they’ve got tumours, or like they’ve overdone steroids, that doesn’t appeal to me.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 5, 2024 8:22:48 GMT -5
Kirby's anatomy was way off at times but it was great. Art is about expression and sometimes it becomes awesome with distortion. True. The difference I see is that some artists can draw normal proportions and decide to play with them (Kirby, Sienkiewicz, Rude) while others couldn't draw a normal person to save their life. In the second case distortion isn't a feature, it's a bug. And it's rarely worth looking at.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jan 5, 2024 8:48:42 GMT -5
There's also a matter of being able to tell a story visually rather than stringing a series of pin up together to fill the pages. The ability to juxtapose images on panels and pages, using different perspectives and POV, varying panel size and shape to emphasis narrative not just to get a money shot you can sell the original art for, the size and shape and presence or lack therof of gutters between panels, the control of time through visuals, the ability to use varied facial expressions and body language to convey mood and emotions in the story, etc. are all factors that impact the quality of comic art much more than exaggerated anatomy vs. realistic proportions, and those were things artists like Kirby had in spades that a lot of 90s artists (both those who did exaggerated physicality and those who hewed more towards realistic representations) lacked or did not bother with.
-M
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 5, 2024 9:13:57 GMT -5
I mean, and I’m probably not the first person to state this, there were times some of Kirby’s faces seemed too caveman-like, or proportions were a bit off (if I think about it deeply), but everything else - 99% or so - was positive. A wrestling promoter once said that with wrestlers you accentuate the positives, hide the negatives, and I feel that some of my favourite artists can do that. If there’s a Kirby character face I don’t like, I’m sure 99% of other stuff I will like, such as the aforementioned control of time through visuals, varied expressions, etc.
John Byrne’s faces do look alike. Look at a perplexed Superman face from his late 80s run - and then look at a perplexed Reed Richards face from his FF run. I challenge anyone to say there’s not a similarity. But I like a lot of what Byrne did, from backgrounds to the “motion” of regular people standing around, each panel was meaningful. So a Next Men face looking like a Man of Steel face is almost inconsequential.
I’m not the biggest fan of how Herb Trimpe drew Hulk’s face, but there’s a lot of other stuff I do enjoy.
I might be able to ignore the exaggerated anatomy from some if there was a lot else to enjoy. I don’t want to sound like I am bashing Image. I actually like (and have defended) Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man, including the “barbed wire” webs. I like how he did The Lizard. But I can’t honestly say that I don’t have problems with some of Rob Liefeld’s stuff, not all of course.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jan 5, 2024 11:56:33 GMT -5
It certainly seems lazy and creatively bankrupt. I just read your reply after reading about Ramona Fradon retiring... and somehow, for a split second, thought you were replying to that. I did too! (but it was obvious sarcasm in that case)
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 5, 2024 14:00:15 GMT -5
It certainly seems lazy and creatively bankrupt. It would've been "edgy" if they didn't wait 'til it was legal. Now it's a yawn.
(The Air Pirates died for our sins!)
What a wonder that twenty years after the two-thousands (I refuse to call them the "oughts") we still haven't progressed as a society past taking something innocent and bastardizing it by making it edgy
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Post by commond on Jan 5, 2024 17:23:49 GMT -5
That Sam Keith Wolverine cover is amazing.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 5, 2024 17:27:33 GMT -5
That Sam Keith Wolverine cover is amazing. I always loved how Keith seemed to just bounce around to different art styles in The Maxx. I guess because the world in the story was very intangible for various reasons, he could get away with it
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Post by MDG on Jan 5, 2024 20:18:17 GMT -5
Anyone get ‘em all? I missed one.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 5, 2024 23:18:08 GMT -5
Anyone get ‘em all? I missed one. The first didn't give me enough, other than the moody look to the panel; but, I needed a figure to get it right. The second, third and fourth I got straight away, without questioning. The last one had my changing my mind several times and the discussion kept swaying me in directions. Once I knew which war comic was, I was trying to recall who all had worked on it but I didn't get the actual artist and actually rejected him, when his name came up, based on the panels chosen. It just wasn't coming through. Maybe if I had seen the actual comic and thumbed through it. I'm better at identifying figure work than some of the things they focused on, or artistic tics. Certain artists I could look at buildings and identify them, or how they handled cars, or aircraft; bot those are usually pretty specific. others I would know by their choice of media, like a Ken Steacy. I think this game would be a lot harder if you were using more non-DC and Marvel examples.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 6, 2024 4:42:48 GMT -5
Anyone get ‘em all? I missed one. Didn't do too well; I agree with cody that the first one doesn't give you enough to go on. For the third one I had several guesses, including the right answer, but not with enough confidence. I got the fourth and fifth examples after he showed the second panel each time. The only one I recognized immediately as soon as I saw the first panel was the second artist.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 6, 2024 7:28:28 GMT -5
I mean, and I’m probably not the first person to state this, there were times some of Kirby’s faces seemed too caveman-like, or proportions were a bit off (if I think about it deeply), but everything else - 99% or so - was positive. A wrestling promoter once said that with wrestlers you accentuate the positives, hide the negatives, and I feel that some of my favourite artists can do that. If there’s a Kirby character face I don’t like, I’m sure 99% of other stuff I will like, such as the aforementioned control of time through visuals, varied expressions, etc. John Byrne’s faces do look alike. Look at a perplexed Superman face from his late 80s run - and then look at a perplexed Reed Richards face from his FF run. I challenge anyone to say there’s not a similarity. But I like a lot of what Byrne did, from backgrounds to the “motion” of regular people standing around, each panel was meaningful. So a Next Men face looking like a Man of Steel face is almost inconsequential. I’m not the biggest fan of how Herb Trimpe drew Hulk’s face, but there’s a lot of other stuff I do enjoy. I might be able to ignore the exaggerated anatomy from some if there was a lot else to enjoy. I don’t want to sound like I am bashing Image. I actually like (and have defended) Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man, including the “barbed wire” webs. I like how he did The Lizard. But I can’t honestly say that I don’t have problems with some of Rob Liefeld’s stuff, not all of course. Art Adams is revered by many but his proportions are off in many of his pages. The eye of the beholder.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jan 7, 2024 0:24:37 GMT -5
Tomorrow marks the 90th anniversary of the launch of Flash Gordon in the Sunday pages.
-M
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