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Post by MDG on Mar 4, 2024 13:29:29 GMT -5
If you want a truly bizarre comics experience, try reading Atlas' Tigerman in its entirety. Then go take a cold shower and tell yourself that it never happened. Although, the real weirdness occurs in the first Tigerman story, which is not in the comic, but instead is in Atlas' Thrilling Adventure Stories #1 magazine. I wonder if they intentionally swiped their logo from DC's Adventure comics.   |
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Post by tartanphantom on Mar 4, 2024 16:29:32 GMT -5
If you want a truly bizarre comics experience, try reading Atlas' Tigerman in its entirety. Then go take a cold shower and tell yourself that it never happened. Although, the real weirdness occurs in the first Tigerman story, which is not in the comic, but instead is in Atlas' Thrilling Adventure Stories #1 magazine. I wonder if they intentionally swiped their logo from DC's Adventure comics.
I don't know, but that's an interesting "alternate" cover-- perhaps unused art for issue #3 which was never published? Or, is there a collected edition that I'm not aware of?
The only two published covers that I know of are below-- one by Ernie Colon, and one by Neal Adams. And yeah, I can see the similarity, also reminiscent of one of the Avengers logos.
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Post by MWGallaher on Mar 4, 2024 21:14:53 GMT -5
I don't know, but that's an interesting "alternate" cover-- perhaps unused art for issue #3 which was never published? Or, is there a collected edition that I'm not aware of?
The only two published covers that I know of are below-- one by Ernie Colon, and one by Neal Adams. And yeah, I can see the similarity, also reminiscent of one of the Avengers logos. It appears that this is a 2020 revival, featuring prose stories of some original Atlas characters and associated concepts along with an unpublished-in-America Bog Beast story created in the 70's. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 5, 2024 5:27:47 GMT -5
Don't know if this is the right thread on this, but this was a recent article in the newspapers over here: www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/02/29/plagiaat-vrijwel-heel-stripalbum-over-caesar-nagetekend-van-prince-valiant-strips-a4191573Back in 2020, Dutch comic artist Lucas Smeets wrote an article about Joe Orlando's plagiarism of Prince Valiant issues for his " Caesar's Conquests" in "Classics Illustrated" (1953). This was not news at the time as there were already incidents of this known at the time. Smeets has now published a book about it (available in English), "Prince Valiant meets Julius Caesar" where he took the time to source all the panels in the Classics Illustrated to the original panels in Prince Valiant and basically the entire Caesar's Conquests is redrawn Prince Valiant panels (Smeets said that for the few panels he couldn't source, they probably are still copied, but he hasn't found the original source yet). |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 5, 2024 9:56:00 GMT -5
Don't know if this is the right thread on this, but this was a recent article in the newspapers over here: www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/02/29/plagiaat-vrijwel-heel-stripalbum-over-caesar-nagetekend-van-prince-valiant-strips-a4191573Back in 2020, Dutch comic artist Lucas Smeets wrote an article about Joe Orlando's plagiarism of Prince Valiant issues for his " Caesar's Conquests" in "Classics Illustrated" (1953). This was not news at the time as there were already incidents of this known at the time. Smeets has now published a book about it (available in English), "Prince Valiant meets Julius Caesar" where he took the time to source all the panels in the Classics Illustrated to the original panels in Prince Valiant and basically the entire Caesar's Conquests is redrawn Prince Valiant panels (Smeets said that for the few panels he couldn't source, they probably are still copied, but he hasn't found the original source yet). Can't see this article without a subscription. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 5, 2024 10:25:42 GMT -5
Mm.. I didn't get any subscription or login on that page, but it may be geo-blocking. Can you open these: www.furoremagazine.com/author/piet/ (original article from 2020) otherwise, this is an example page from the link in my previous post:  |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 5, 2024 10:37:47 GMT -5
Wow! That is some serious swiping. I wonder if Classics Ill was aware of this? Early in Orlando's career, guess he wasn't up to this yet.While his EC work did not put him at the level of some of the others there, Wood, Williamson, Davis....he did serviceable art.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 5, 2024 21:37:42 GMT -5
Wow! That is some serious swiping. I wonder if Classics Ill was aware of this? Early in Orlando's career, guess he wasn't up to this yet.While his EC work did not put him at the level of some of the others there, Wood, Williamson, Davis....he did serviceable art. Pretty sure they didn't care. They weren't paying top dollar and it was rarely anyone's favorite gig though Andre Le Blanc did quite a bit of it, including the Illustrated Bible. You could do an entire multivolume set of swipes by various artists of Prince Valiant. Pretty much every artist who worked in adventure comics stole something; some deliberately homaged it, others just blatantly swiped. That and Raymond's Flash Gordon, Caniff's Terry & the Pirates, Sickles' Scorchy Smith, and Crane's Wash Tubbs. Even Kirby took The Demon's look from it, though I think that was more of a case of a tribute to it, as he didn't try to hide it, like Bob Kane or some others. Wood swiped more than a little Foster. |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 5, 2024 21:49:51 GMT -5
Wood said "Never draw what you can copy. Never copy what you can trace. And never trace what you can cut out and paste down."
Of course he did a lot of drawing, so I take this as somewhat tounge in cheek.
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 10, 2024 9:31:08 GMT -5
Any views on this comment:
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 10, 2024 13:34:32 GMT -5
I don't know which other books used this as a base. But we do know they are still mining his "failed" Fourth World books for stories, characters and events.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 10, 2024 14:49:37 GMT -5
I don't know which other books used this as a base. But we do know they are still mining his "failed" Fourth World books for stories, characters and events. Steve Englehart used it in his Justice League run, to establish the robot Manhunters, on Oa, before the Green Lantern Corps, which then fed into the Millennium crossover event and the return of Mark Shaw, as a character. Shaw has then informed most of the later attempts at using the Manhunter name. It was also retroactively tied to both Paul Kirk and Dan Richards (the Quality Comics Manhunter, who became part of DC, later), during the Millennium event. Kirby's idea was that Shaw was the latest in a secret society of Manhunters and that the older man who we see in the opening is Paul Kirk, without the Goodwin/Simonson Manhunter having ever occurred. Englehart just took the society and made it a cover for rogue androids, created by The Guardians of the Universe. Mark Shaw, after the android nature of the Manhunter's is exposed, hangs around for a bit, as the new swashbuckling hero, the Privateer (complete with eyepatch, which made no sense), but is then exposed as the criminal Star-Tsar, demonstrating that he had been corrupted by the Manhunter influence, in a very rare heel turn for a superhero. Millennium found him deprogrammed by Dr La Grieve, at Belle Reve and joining the Suicide Squad, for their mission. Then, he got his own series, where he became a super-bounty hunter, with a new version of the Manhunter mask and costume (heavily influenced by Japanese hero shows, like Kamen Rider and the Super Sentai/Power Ranger shows). The gimmick was supposed to be that the villains he captured would end up on the Suicide Squad; but, it never fully worked out that way. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 10, 2024 14:55:48 GMT -5
Any views on this comment: Millennium sucked, by most standards you can imagine and the Manhunter spin-off comic was at its best for the first 4 issues, then started a slow downhill trajectory. I liked it, for the most part; but, I always had the feeling that the subsequent stories weren't as good as that initial battle, with Dumas, and Ostrander never really got it back to that level. Once Doug Rice departed, the art was less interesting, which was the main reason I was hanging on. Ostrander resorted to reviving Dumas, for the finale, then Shaw became cannon fodder for Eclipso; but, like most of the others, got better. DC never really made a long term success out of Kirby's idea...which was done solely to fulfill his page commitment, in his contract, after they cancelled his other books. That was why you saw him do stories in First Issue Special and things like Justice, Inc; and The Losers. They kept cancelling his books, despite respectable sales, relative to DC's other titles. The problem was that DC felt that since they were paying him more than other people, his books should have proportionately greater sales. |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 10, 2024 16:19:30 GMT -5
And this was happening in the midst of a sales collapse for most of DC and probably some of the affidavit return fraud on his books.
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Post by commond on Mar 10, 2024 17:28:01 GMT -5
DC also thought Marvel would collapse without Kirby.
I don't know how true it is, but during the period where Stan was fed up with Marvel, he talked to Infantino about jumping ship to DC. Carmine proposed pairing him up with Kirby again. I'm sure Jack would have loved that.
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