|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 11:45:51 GMT -5
Post by hondobrode on Aug 8, 2018 11:45:51 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking a long time about making my own digital comics collages. I used to make collages as a kid. Since I can't draw, this is as close as I can come to doing something creative.
I sell vinyl for car wraps, signage and graphic images, hence the 4 Color is appropriate there as well as most of what I sell is able to have graphics printed on it. After my territories are at a certain point, I'm going to allow myself the time to devote to making my own and practicing on refining my craft.
I'm going to re-box and catalog my collection, which I've never truly gotten completed, and when I do, I'm going to wrap the wall of boxes with a huge custom collage.
Do you guys think there would be demand for something like that from collectors ? I'm going to call it 4 Color Comic Art and it'll offer collectors a custom experience of characters, time frames i.e. Golden Age, Bronze Age etc, publishers, themes, artists, etc ?
Just kind of wanted to get some honest feedback about what you guys think.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 13:09:35 GMT -5
Post by beccabear67 on Aug 8, 2018 13:09:35 GMT -5
You'd have to explain it more for me, I guess I'm just not up on wraps or car wraps. OT: I used to imagine super-heroes having their own custom cars and what they'd look like, such as Phoenix would have a green metallic Pontiac Firebird with gold chrome work and black interior. Could a car wrap do that? I'll call you if I win a lottery.
|
|
|
Post by comicsandwho on Aug 8, 2018 13:27:20 GMT -5
Hmm...'Cars of the X-Men'...so, would Nightcrawler drive a Gremlin? Or would Storm drive a VW Scirocco? Sunfire, after making a...ahem...fiery...speech protesting Xavier's attitude for providing him with a Japanese car, would drive off angrily...in a Chevy Nova.
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Aug 8, 2018 13:52:00 GMT -5
sorry sorry sorry sorry
Didn't mean I was selling car wraps; though I certainly could.
What I meant was that I could digitally design a collage and set it to the customer.
I could have it printed on whatever medium they wanted; matted and framed, or as a Fathead-type wall image, or floor image, window image, wrap their PC, laptop, monitor, video game system, cell phone, tablet, motorcycle helmet, whatever they wanted if they wanted to go that route
or
print as a textured canvas like stucco, or crushed stone, gloss, matte, lustre, prismatic, metallic, whatever
It could be just a digital image for whatever they want, or a traditional paper / print product, or a vinyl product you could stick anywhere either with remove-ability or a permanent image
whatever
I think there would be demand for it but I'm asking collectors here if they think it would be viable to offer the world at large ?
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 14:47:10 GMT -5
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 8, 2018 14:47:10 GMT -5
You do realize that you would be violating trademark and copyright on the comic images, if they are not in the public domain? You could let yourself open for some major legal issues. Disney and Warner aggressively protect their rights.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 18:09:14 GMT -5
Post by hondobrode on Aug 8, 2018 18:09:14 GMT -5
These are individual customized pieces, not say the same image mass produced for a t-shirt or something. Artists produce images with those characters; I would be producing unique pieces utilizing previously published art. Would it be different than something like this ? I don't want to get into any trouble, but it seems to me making something unique and different is indeed different than the t-shirt scenario above; that's part of why I posted this for feedback
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 8, 2018 18:39:54 GMT -5
These are individual customized pieces, not say the same image mass produced for a t-shirt or something. Artists produce images with those characters; I would be producing unique pieces utilizing previously published art. Would it be different than something like this ? I don't want to get into any trouble, but it seems to me making something unique and different is indeed different than the t-shirt scenario above; that's part of why I posted this for feedback Creating a collage for yourself is not a problem; mass producing the same work could be. When you start making money off of someone else's work or your stuff is derived from their work, you get into dangerous territory. I would consult a specialist in trademark and/or copyright law, before doing anything beyond small scale custom orders. I work for a printing company and we get customers bringing in stuff created by people on Etsy that are filled with trademark violations (Disney characters, superheroes, Star Wars, etc...). Etsy pretty much washes their hands of it and lets the rights holder go after the individual, until (probably) they get enough pressure to act, by delisting the person or something. Ebay used to be a haven for this stuff, until they were forced to clean up the violations going on. The problem is that technology has made reproducing things rather easy and relatively cheap, compared to older printing technologies. The other issue is, even if you are within the law, the conglomerates have enough economic resources to tie you up in legal red tape to make it too costly for you to fight. They are Godzilla, everyone else is Tokyo.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 19:25:24 GMT -5
Post by beccabear67 on Aug 8, 2018 19:25:24 GMT -5
As a one of a kind custom item it might be exempt, if they don't already license someone else doing something like that now. If you think it could be a big thing maybe you could license things properly? Etsy is supposed to be one of a kind crafty sorts of things. I see on ebay lots of light switch cover plates and fridge magnets with expensive comic covers art on them still, they were still there to mess me up when I'm searching for a comic book last time I tried anyway.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 23:08:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 23:08:24 GMT -5
Also, would you be paying royalties to the artists who created the work you are using to make a profit with? It may not be legally required, but it is the ethical thing to do. There's a difference between using found art to create a personal art piece and using found art to make a commercial product for profit.
It's a slippery slope. A lot of cons will allow artists to sell prints using corporate characters if they created the artwork themselves, but will not allow vendors to sell unlicensed reproductions of other artists work as prints, t-shirts, or other products unless they can show a contract with or permission from the trademark holder and/or a contract with the artist who actually produced the artwork. I know Heroes Initiative is allowed to sell cover reproductions as prints because it is for charity and the publishers signed off on it, but a private vendor doing the same thing without that permission would be shut down.
I see vendors using other people's art for unlicensed products without paying royalties to the artists who created the art getting called out all the time on sites like Bleeding Cool, and either cons shut those vendors down and bar them form selling those things or fan boycotts of the products are arranged to make life miserable for those vendors. Many often make the artists involved aware who then take steps to send cease and desist letters to prevent someone else profiting form their labor that they have received no compensation from. Most of them have reprint rights that kick in if a publisher licenses the art out for use in commercial products where they would get royalties/residuals from someone using their art for products like that.
So I am not sure if you would be violating the letter of the law doing it, but there are a lot of places in the comic book community where that type of things is not well accepted or welcomed.
-M
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 8, 2018 23:49:38 GMT -5
Post by hondobrode on Aug 8, 2018 23:49:38 GMT -5
I've been wanting to get back to making collages like I did when I was a kid. I could make all kinds of them and later frame, hang, and rotate them, for my own pleasure. I'm certainly going to do that in time, maybe within the next year. The reason I posted this, is anyone who knows me knows, is that I love comics. I don't know anyone else who offers this service and would like to give other fans something unique that they could enjoy too. What I'd prefer to do with part of the proceeds would be to contribute to The Hero Initiative, the first federally recognized non-profit charity that gives back to the forefathers of our great industry. I don't think me doing this onesey twosey with unique pieces commissioned by individuals would be a problem. As has been pointed out, there are legions of people doing things on a much larger scale in a commercial way. Mine is just me as a little hobby here and there for fellow fans. Not there yet, but I've been thinking about it for a long time. Still considering it and appreciate the feedback and ideas you guys give.
BTW, mrp, with a work like the collage I referenced, with so many different contributions, how the heck would a guy figure to give back ? and my pieces are going to be unique one-of-a-kind things with lots of different pieces. The dollar amounts are tiny, not thousands of dollars and trying to figure back who and how for pennies ? I think better to donate to The Hero Initiative.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220
|
4 Color
Aug 9, 2018 20:40:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Confessor on Aug 9, 2018 20:40:34 GMT -5
I'm certainly no expert in this area, but my understanding of it is that making these collages of copyrighted superheroes for yourself would come under "fair use". As soon as you start to charge other people money for them, you're making money off of corporately held characters and infringing these company's copyright for monetary gain. That's when you would get the lawyers sicced on you. Maybe Slam_Bradley can shed more light on this and give you a more definitive answer about the legal aspects of this endeavour of yours.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959
|
4 Color
Aug 9, 2018 21:08:11 GMT -5
Post by Crimebuster on Aug 9, 2018 21:08:11 GMT -5
I think you would be fine with individualized collages made from old comic books. I also think it would be fine to sell them.
I have been to plenty of shows where people have hand-made items using old comic books, and I have crafted some myself. I think it's totally fair use, and I don't think there's any problem with it at all.
Now, where a gray area comes into play is if you were to do something like download and print images, and then use those in a collage. Or, say, make a collage and then scan it and mass produce the image for sale like a print or something.
For example, the image of the Superman collage you posted above - if you were to make that by hand using images cut out from old comics, it would be fine. If you then scanned that collage and sold posters of it, though, that would be iffy.
It's the difference between treating the comics as an object, or as intellectual property. Using physical vintage comics is, I believe, a different category of work than reproducing images.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 9, 2018 22:11:12 GMT -5
Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 9, 2018 22:11:12 GMT -5
I appreciate your enthusiasm, Hondobrode! I think honestly most of the guys here are getting ahead of themselves. My sister-in-law did some etsy stuff with licensed properties, and no one bothered her.. at first. Once she got close to having it be a legit business (selling enough items a day to make a few hours of work each day)... she suddenly stopped doing it. She never confirmed she got a cease and desist, but that's mostly because my brother was mad I warned him about it As Crimebuster said, if you do this a a once in a while thing for friends and by word of mouth, you'd be fine. If you start trying to make it an internet business and making any kind of real money, you'll probably get shut down.
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 10, 2018 3:44:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 3:44:26 GMT -5
I find this a fascinating subject to talk about and share -- but doing this kind of thing can led to copyright problems and among other things as well. I would do a few pieces and be done with and I've shared the same thoughts as wildfire2099, Crimebuster, and codystarbuck -- and that's goes double for him.
I just find this hobby of your interesting ... and yet it's can be a very challenging one to do.
That's all I have ... I just loved that Superman ... freaking cool!
|
|
|
4 Color
Aug 10, 2018 12:35:13 GMT -5
Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 10, 2018 12:35:13 GMT -5
My two-bits. Remember that I'm a criminal attorney and IP law is a hobby at best.
If you're downloading and printing stuff for sale to others you are almost certainly violating the copyright/trademark of the holder because you are profiting from their intellectual property without a license to do so. Do a lot of people do it...yeah...I'm sure they do. I don't do Etsy, but I have a feeling you can find stuff on there that is definitely a copyright or trademark violation. Same with Cons. And as long as you stay small you're unlikely to have a problem. But you probably should anticipate a Cease-and-Desist letter at some point.
|
|