|
Post by badwolf on Aug 15, 2018 11:10:36 GMT -5
I remember feeling really clever for knowing it was Rachel when she started to appear again in this series. (No internet back then of course, and comic reading was mostly a solitary experience.) I was excited at the time, but in retrospect I don't think they should have ever brought her back.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 15, 2018 11:26:12 GMT -5
I remember feeling really clever for knowing it was Rachel when she started to appear again in this series. (No internet back then of course, and comic reading was mostly a solitary experience.) I was excited at the time, but in retrospect I don't think they should have ever brought her back. Yes, the lure of that can of worms proved irresistible, but it hopelessly complicated the narrative.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959
|
Post by Crimebuster on Aug 15, 2018 12:39:05 GMT -5
The name is ill-chosen, since (1) he has nothing to do with magic, and (2) Marvel already has Adam Warlock running around much of the time. If I remember correctly, Adam Warlock was dead during this period, and was absent from Marvel for quite a long time - a decade or more, I think. They may have given him the name Warlock for trademark reasons.
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Aug 15, 2018 12:48:19 GMT -5
The name is ill-chosen, since (1) he has nothing to do with magic, and (2) Marvel already has Adam Warlock running around much of the time. If I remember correctly, Adam Warlock was dead during this period, and was absent from Marvel for quite a long time - a decade or more, I think. They may have given him the name Warlock for trademark reasons. Yep.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 15, 2018 13:01:17 GMT -5
The name is ill-chosen, since (1) he has nothing to do with magic, and (2) Marvel already has Adam Warlock running around much of the time. If I remember correctly, Adam Warlock was dead during this period, and was absent from Marvel for quite a long time - a decade or more, I think. They may have given him the name Warlock for trademark reasons. This got me thinking: Surely there was a new male magic user in Marvel Comics of the mid 1980s who could get the name Warlock if they needed to retain the trademark. But I guess most of the magic users of that era were female: Amanda Sefton, Illyana Rasputin, Agatha Harkness, Wanda Maximoff, etc. I wonder why.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 15, 2018 14:13:38 GMT -5
It’s interesting to see S’ym be used as a regular character, as he was specifically mentioned when Marvel told Dave Sim to stop using Wolveroach in Cerebus. In his editorial pages, the artist said he got the point, and that his continued used of Wolveroach would be as if Marvel turned the one-time joke of the demon S’ym into a recurring character. Can’t win against corporations. I have no dog in the fight either way, but for what it's worth: (from rsmwriter.blogspot.com/2016/06/jim-shooter-second-opinion.html)
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 16, 2018 7:20:22 GMT -5
#19: “Siege” (September 1984)
Focus Theme: Hospital Horror The Story: The kids trail Dani’s ambulance (How? We know that none of them drive) to Mid-County Medical Center, where she’s taken immediately to the operating room with many broken bones and a spinal cord injury. A blizzard makes transport to a larger hospital impossible, and the kids settle in for the night in the waiting room. Sam convinces his friend that the Demon Bear is real, and is likely to make another attempt on Dani’s life that very night. Out in space, a large blip and an immense blip traveling Earthward buzz right by the Starjammers’ spaceship. They have no idea what this was, but we do; it was clearly Warlock fleeing his father, as seen last issue as well. Binary’s flaming head looks really outrageous under Sienkiewicz’ brush, just a taste of the stylized art he has in store. Westchester cop Tom Corsi gets yelled at by Roberto, then almost shoots Rahne in her werewolf form, then chats up the pretty nurse Sharon Friedlander. Then… the Demon Bear takes them!!!! (Cue scary dissonant music) Illyana attempts protective spells around the operating room. When the Demon Bear strikes her, more surprises! Instead of bearing a wound, that part of her arm is now covered in metal armor. It happens again on her back, and she’s as puzzled as we are. The battle moves to the hospital’s generator room, and then the bear teleports the kids to an alternate dimension evoking the mesas of the American Southwest. The issues closes on a fabulous splash page showing a crazily abstracted sun beating down on the desert, but within the bear, it’s night, with a crescent moon. My Two Cents: For a mid-1980s comic book, some might see this one as surprisingly decompressed. Not much “happens.” The kids wander the hospital, helpless to change Dani’s fate in the operating room. The fight against the Demon Bear consumes only the last six pages, but prior to that comes all kinds of nice characterization and rising tension. Every good horror movie director knows that the build-up to the monster’s appearance is the important part, not the actual appearance, so on those marks Claremont does quite well by us. We see Sam in a trucker hat for what I believe is the very first time. It’s an obvious wardrobe element for a Kentucky coal miner, and Sienkiewicz’ eye for such details speaks well of him. In another panel, though, we can see that Sam’s cap reads “Terry Austin Fan Club.” I wouldn’t have picked Sam for a comic book fan, but if he is, Terry Austin is a great choice! Rahne’s wolf form looks substantially more feral than it used to. This is partly because everything Sienkiewicz draws looks freaky, but it’s also a plot element that Claremont is teeing up for the next story arc. Always looking to the future, that one. The costumes also look different, with a vertical stripe of constant width on the tunic instead of an inverted triangle. Sienkiewicz is also really good at faces (having done "real people" art for movie and music posters), and I wonder to whom some of them belong. The nurse taking Dani’s pulse looks so lifelike as to be a photo swipe. Are these two guys in the hall Charlie Sheen and Alfred Hitchcock? They look like it. Meanwhile in X-Men (#185): Rogue is ambushed by Agent Gyrich, who bears a gun made by Forge in imitation of ROM’s neutralizer technology. Storm ends up as the one who gets shot, eliminating her mutant powers.
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Aug 16, 2018 11:12:15 GMT -5
Definitely Hitchcock...not sure on the other doctor behind him but I always felt he was a TV doctor, maybe from some fifties drama. Never saw Charlie Sheen till you mentioned it.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 17, 2018 3:29:02 GMT -5
What's the Season, Kenneth?I just noticed some inconsistent seasonality in these few issues. In issue #13, when Kitty meets Amara in the woods, everything is green: The next scene in internal chronology is the frame story of the Magik mini-series. Illyana is standing on the edge of a bluff behind the Xavier School, and I must say I never realized that it was so high or so close to the mansion. At the start of her story (Magik #1) the trees are all green, but by the end of her story, it's snowed quite a bit. This leads to New Mutants #14, in which Illyana, standing on the bluff, notices the snowfall and returns to see the other kids playing in the snow. Then comes to the battle with S'ym, at the end of which the X-Men return to the mansion wearing cold-weather clothing, and Doug Ramsey announces the news of his scholarship interview in Massachusetts. In issue #15 when the kids go to the Massachusetts Academy to rescue Kitty and Doug, there's no snow but barren trees, and everyone is dressed for the cold: A week later, after Illyana and Dani have rescued their teammates, they all return to the mansion, and it's colder and snowier in greater NYC than at the Massachusetts Academy in the Berkshires: The next scene introduces Rachel, but the weather is back to snowless greenery: Later that night, it's deep in winter and all snowy again, and remains so throughout the Demon Bear story: Then there must be a narrative gap between #20 and #21, since the latter shows Sam skinny dipping in the lake. It all makes me wonder whether the Rachel pages (and thus perhaps the attached Danger Room material) in #18 were intended for a different issue at some point since they don't match the snow at the end of issue #17, or the snow at the end of issue #18 on through #20.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 17, 2018 3:38:29 GMT -5
#20: “Badlands” (October 1984)
Focus Theme: Desert Horror The Story: The Demon Bear has transported the kids to a desert dimension resembling the American Southwest. They can see Dani still on the operating table as surgeons work to close her many wounds. The Bear turns policeman Tom Corsi and nurse Sharon Friendlander (captured last issue) into zombified Native Americans. The whole issue is one big slugfest. When Amara gets turned into a zombie too, Illyana summons her soulsword (never seen by any of the kids before, mind you) and stabs Amara through the heart. Sam reacts predictably, dragging Illyana across the countryside. But when Amara awakens, restored to normal, she gives Sam a tongue lashing, which seems unfair. How was he supposed to know what was going on? Rahne forms a lupine mindlink with Dani, who tells Rahne that Illyana’s soulsword is the secret sauce to defeating the Bear. So Sam carries Illyana to the peak of the giant bear, and she slices it stem to stern. Victory! The kids are returned to the hospital. So are Tom Corsi and Sharon Friendlander—but weirdly, they are still Native Americans, though no longer zombies. But wait! There’s more! Dani’s parents William and Peg (perhaps the two least Cheyenne names you can imagine) are here also, having been freed from years of imprisonment within the Demon Bear. And their surname is Lonestar for some reason, not Moonstar. A doctor reports that Danielle survived the surgery but will be permanently paralyzed. Just when everybody starts crying, Professor Xavier’s voice speaks telepathically (his first appearance in these pagers since issue #14, though apparently not the first time he’s spoken to the kids since returning from the Secret Wars) to tell them everything will be OK. The Morlock healer shows up to perform a deus ex medico routine on Dani, and she’ll be fine. Xavier arrives in person and praises the kids’ performance. My Two Cents: Claremont (I assume) came up with a unique “Countdown to Doomsday” graphic which recurs throughout the issue: An airplane’s eye view of the entire Badlands with an increasingly large black smudge depicting areas where the Demon Bear’s shadow has fallen. Other than that, this issue has great art but is a big mess plot-wise. Almost every element was dropped from the mythos immediately: • You know how in the 80s cartoon Voltron, Defender of the Universe, the five lion-robots try to face this week’s giant Ro-beast menace separately and fail, then finally at the end of the episode they join together into a giant robot with a huge sword that easily slices the Ro-beast in twain? This is like that. Illyana, you have a giant magic sword. You’ve established it defeats the Demon Bear’s zombies. Surely your next course of action is to try it on the Bear itself, right? • Also, two issues ago, Dani established that the Demon Bear’s greatest fear was Dani herself, not Illyana. But here, all that Dani has to contribute to the Bear’s defeat is the obvious information that Illyana should try attacking the bear with her sword. Again, duh… but beyond that, Dani has never seen Illyana’s soulsword. So how would she even know that the sword exists, let alone be the secret to defeating their foe? • This big plot hole suggesting that Claremont either wrote himself into a corner or else was forced by his editors to change the story which he had originally intended. It's also the beginning of an unwelcome trend in which the ultimate solution to every New Mutant problem is “Illyana uses magic/demons/a big sword to save them.” • Yay, Dani’s parents are alive! Obviously she’s going to leave the school for a yearlong sabbatical to reconnect with them, right? Lots of opportunities for drama since they don’t even know she’s a mutant, right? Nope. They go to Colorado, and she stays in New York, and I don't recall any stories where she ever visits them. We never find out how Xavier became William Lonestar’s blood brother, the custodian of Dani after her parents disappeared and her grandfather was murdered. For somebody who lives, breathes and dies “What would these characters do if they were real people,” Claremont has turned in a very off-his-game script here. • In a similar vein, the final page is clearly teeing up a sequel. William Proudstar is reticent about explaining the origins of the Demon Bear, and Xavier resolves to take the matter up with Dr. Strange. As far as I know, this story was never told. To date, the Demon Bear has exactly one more appearance in Marvel Comics: a one-shot in X-Factor Vol 3 #10 (2009), featuring Warpath and Ghost Rider. Again I wonder: What happened? Was this creature (like so many others used by Claremont) borrowed from some other media? Was there a lawsuit risk? • Why did Tom and Sharon stay Native Americans after being exorcised? Too bad Amara changed back to Anglo. That could have been an interesting direction for her character – and ironic too, inasmuch as Amara has disguised herself as an Inca savage back in New Mutants #8. • Roberto is reluctant to use full force against the zombie duo, but Amara shows a ruthlessness in word and deed that didn’t characterize her in other issues. • The Morlock Healer is way too convenient a plot device. Forget about housing him in the sewers of New York City; the X-Men get attacked way more than the Morlocks. This guy needs a room at the mansion, right next to the Danger Room. Despite the disappointing third act of this trilogy, the overall story and art execution are so audacious that it’s still remembered fondly as a career highlight for Sienkiewicz, and for New Mutants. In this issue, Sienkiewicz gives us a taste of the impressionistic faces that would often appear, reflecting the character’s inner state more than their literal appearance. Meanwhile in X-Men (#186): The famous LifeDeath issue, a character drama featuring Ororo and Forge. Also, Rogue learns about ROM’s enemies the Dire Wraiths as well as the government’s plans for mutant control. This was the first thing I ever saw by guest artist Barry Windsor-Smith, and I was impressed.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 17, 2018 14:28:04 GMT -5
Here's an amusing Jim Shooter anecdote about how Bill Sienkiewicz came to Marvel, and the time he played Spider-Man in public: Later Shooter discusses how Bill Sienkiewicz had broken his hand and was drawing The New Mutants with his off hand. Incredible! jimshooter.com/2011/05/bill-sienkiewicz-is-spider-man.html/
|
|
|
Post by chaykinstevens on Aug 17, 2018 16:18:54 GMT -5
Definitely Hitchcock...not sure on the other doctor behind him but I always felt he was a TV doctor, maybe from some fifties drama. Never saw Charlie Sheen till you mentioned it. GCD says it's Vince Edwards, who played Ben Casey on TV. Sienkiewicz may have been a fan of Neal Adams' work on the Ben Casey newspaper strips. Charlie Sheen would only have had a couple of minor roles by 1984.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 17, 2018 16:33:31 GMT -5
Definitely Hitchcock...not sure on the other doctor behind him but I always felt he was a TV doctor, maybe from some fifties drama. Never saw Charlie Sheen till you mentioned it. GCD says it's Vince Edwards, who played Ben Casey on TV. Sienkiewicz may have been a fan of Neal Adams' work on the Ben Casey newspaper strips. Charlie Sheen would only have had a couple of minor roles by 1984. That makes perfect sense. Compare:
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Aug 17, 2018 16:59:59 GMT -5
Ah, yeah, I can definitely see that. We know Neal was a big influence on Bill.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Aug 17, 2018 21:45:34 GMT -5
I had all the New Mutants up into 'Legion' being introduced. I think I really might've dropped the X-Men if this title hadn't been as strong as it usually was. The Romita Jr. era of X-Men really did nothing for me (and yet I'd loved him on Iron Man before). Eventually I dropped most super character comics; too many cross-over and mini-series, and I really couldn't afford them all plus independents and Epic titles, and they'd killed characters I cared about to boost sales.
I was going to say the same about that doctor though I didn't 'get' it at the time, but for some reason I was looking for a Doctor Kildare comic strip by Adams. Got them mixed up in the memory even though the tv Kildare Richard Chamberlin looked nothing like Ben Casey.
Really enjoying this trip through the title!
|
|