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Post by rberman on Nov 7, 2018 13:34:50 GMT -5
Phoenix: Warsong #1 (November 2006)You may recall that Grant Morrison named the five Stepford Cuckoos (Sophie, Phoebe, Irma, Celeste, Esme) so that their initials referred to the Spice Girls. But Irma’s name was never mentioned during Grant Morrison’s run, and Pak decided to name her “Mindee” in this series. Later publications corrected her name back to Irma with some unnecessary exposition. We’ll go with “Mindee” in this discussion. It was actually Chuck Austen who gave her the name Mindee during his run on X-Men. Matt Fraction later revealed during his run on Uncanny X-Men that Mindee was, in fact, a nickname, and that Irma was her real name, setting things inline with Morrison's intentions. I appreciate you setting the record straight!
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Post by rberman on Nov 7, 2018 14:26:47 GMT -5
rberman ... What the purpose of the White Costume of Phoenix? When Chris Claremont took over writing the X-Men reboot from Len Wein, he and artist Dave Cockrum discussed how boring Jean Grey was, so they decided to change her substantially. Dave Cockrum came up with numerous costume designs, as pictured below. He favored the white one on the far right, but Archie Goodwin pointed out that on thin newsprint, with a large section of white (unprinted) color, you'd be able to see the art bleeding through from the other side of every page. So Claremont and Cockrum went with the third Phoenix design pictured below, the one with the green and gold colors of Jean's previous Marvel Girl costume. "White Phoenix" eventually did make it into print almost thirty years later though, on better paper with better ink. Grant Morrison's final story arc on New X-Men was a challenging read, loaded with symbolism. You can read my summary and explanation of it starting here. The short version is that Grant Morrison believes that the multiverse is real, and comic book characters live in an alternate dimension which authors subconsciously access and then write about. Morrison saw Phoenix as a trans-dimensional being, able to stand above it all in what he termed the "White Hot Room," a state of omniversal awareness. In a form that he called "White Phoenix of the Crown," Jean Grey prevented a disastrous future (a future treated as an "infection" for which Phoenix was the cure) by remaking reality, causing Scott Summers to fall in love with Emma Frost upon Jean's death at the hands of Magneto. The "of the crown" part of "White Phoenix of the crown" is a bit of Hindu philosophy thrown into the mix concerning chakras, energy points in the body which enhance consciousness. In his typical fashion, Morrison threw all of these high concepts up in the air and then fled the building (returning to DC as Chief Creative Officer) before they hit the ground, leaving the other X-Men writers like Chris Claremont and Greg Pak to make sense of what Morrison had done, and try to integrate it into the forty years of X-Men continuity that existed up to that point. The Endsong/Warsong story represents Greg Pak's contribution to that, trying to literalize Morrison's more symbolic and philosophical notions so that they represent actual persons in the Marvel Universe. Thus, Morrison's "White Phoenix of the Crown" was a symbolic character in an imaginary future, representing the satori (state of expanded consciousness) promised by eastern religions. But Pak's White Phoenix seems to simply represent the most benign, healing avatar of Phoenix, as represented by the pure white clothing, rather than the dark red suit of Dark Phoenix or the green clothing most associated with Jean-as-Phoenix. Similarly, Morrison' "White Hot Room" was basically Nirvana, a state of ultimate peace but also nothingness. Phoenix presumably returns to this state every time it ceases to manifest in the universe (as with, say, the original death of Jean Grey in X-Men #137). But Chris Claremont concretized the White Hot Room as a dimension to which anyone might be sent, under the right circumstances, and have visions of all of their own alternate selves, as seen in this scene with Psylocke and Rachel Summers from the 2005 "House of M" storyline: Personally, I would have just ignored Morrison's high concept stuff rather than tried to shoehorn it into continuity, just as they ignored Morrison's explanation of who Xorn was, his desecration and then killing of Magneto, his alternate explanation of Weapon X, etc.
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Post by rberman on Nov 7, 2018 22:40:28 GMT -5
Phoenix: Warsong #2 (December 2006)
The Story: The three non-zombie Cuckoos (Phoebe, Mindee, and Celeste) float in the air within a Phoenix raptor. When Logan attacks them, Emma mind-controls Scott to blast Logan off course, and the Cuckoos fly the coop. The X-Men give unsuccessful chase in the Blackbird. The Cuckoos travel to The World in England and chat up the S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Jake Oh. Deep beneath The World, they find a crèche full of untold numbers of Cuckoos growing in tubes. The animated corpses of Esme and Sophie Cuckoos shamble to Cerebra, chat with the other three Cuckoos telepathically, and then float off into the sky. But a brief fracas with Logan leaves him with Sophie’s decayed arm. He gives it a whiff and recognizes the scent, but we're not told what it smells like. (Spoiler so I can discuss it below: It smells like Emma Frost.) My Two Cents: As I mentioned above, Grant Morrison’s run on New X-Men was long on ideas but short on development. It’s not unlike the second side of the Beatles’ Abbey Road album, a mass of half-formed musical thoughts showing pupal brilliance suffering crib death rather than being allowed to grow to adulthood. This giant pile of conceptual Lego bricks dumped on Xavier’s playground was nowhere developed less fully than in The World. Morrison conceived of The World as a giant yet secret research facility in rural Britain, for decades the home of a bubble of accelerated time in which generation after generation of mutants were bred in the blink of an eye as weapons against their brethren in the real world. It was part of Morrison’s overall theme that evolution itself was hostile to the X-Men. Logan discovered that The World held own true origin, as well as that of Fantomex. Morrison also used The World as the origin of Ultimaton, a mutant killer whom Morrison briefly hyped, killed off-panel, and never mentioned again. When I reviewed Morrison’s run, I complained that he spent too much time building up The World as a location of potential interest rather than actually doing something interesting inside it. But OK, now it exists, so it’s fair game for Pak and other writers to explore. If decayed zombie Cuckoos smell like Emma Frost, don't regular living Cuckoos as well? If so, Logan would have noticed this long before now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 4:32:47 GMT -5
rberman ... Thank you so much for the explanation of the various Phoenix's Costumes and now I have a good understanding of them. I really appreciate it very much ...
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Post by rberman on Nov 8, 2018 22:36:43 GMT -5
Phoenix: Warsong #3 (January 2007)
The Story: John Sublime appears on a video screen, welcoming the Cuckoos back to The World and its crèche of Cuckoo clones. A giant tentacled robot captures Mindee and Phoebe. Celeste flees into the arms of S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Jake Oh, whom she begs to kill her before Phoenix does something terrible through her. The X-Men arrive at The World, where Emma discovers the crèche and is taunted by Sublime. Celeste goes into full Phoenix mode; even Logan’s claws don’t stop her. Emma resolves to do Something About It. My Two Cents: The Cuckoos were the most promising undeveloped mystery of Morrison’s run. Where did Emma get all these mini-me’s following her around? They look like her (and thus each other) and have her power as well but speak with one voice. Pak has an answer for us. They were grown in The World from eggs stolen from Emma. It’s not an exciting answer, since it doesn’t introduce any new elements, but it is at least a reasonable answer. Better this than a Claremontian “alternate reality” appeal! But a story about mind control and tentacles inserting themselves into people is very Claremontian. John Sublime’s presence is as of yet unexplained. He was killed by Martha Johansson (in “Germ-Free Generation,” New X-Men #120, January 2002), then shown to be the tool of Sublime, the ancient, malevolent mitochondrial sentience (in “Here Comes Tomorrow,” New X-Men #153, April 2004). Sublime the entity was ultimately responsible for the Weapon Plus program which ran The World, and we saw another “Doctor Sublime” working there even after we saw the demise of John Sublime. Morrison never elucidated the connection between the two men named Sublime, and it appears that Pak is going to give it a try.
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Post by rberman on Nov 9, 2018 19:01:08 GMT -5
Phoenix: Warsong #4 (February 2007)
The Story: The Phoenix tells Celeste Cuckoo, her struggling host, that it has come to save everyone. The purpose of the Cuckoo project, a.k.a. Weapon XIV, was to create a massively multiprocessing hive mind with thousands of telepathic brains strong enough jointly to lobotomize every mutant on earth. Mindee and Phoebe are already hooked into it; now all that’s needed is Celeste, free of Phoenix, to complete the set and begin the mission. Instead, Emma hooks herself into the vacant terminal reserved for Celeste. Emma controls the Cuckoo hive mind to activate psychic dampers within Celeste’s mind to shut off the Phoenix. Yay! But as soon as Emma exits the Cuckoo terminal, Sublime uses robotic tentacles to pull Celeste into it, and the combined power of the hive mind appears to remove the dampers immediately, bringing the Phoenix-powered Cuckoos under Sublime’s control. Oops. My Two Cents: In Claremont’s original Phoenix stories, the Phoenix was a non-sentient galactic force that imbued Jean Grey with cosmic powers. Then to bring back Jean Grey after her death, Phoenix was retconned into a cosmic sentience which incarnated in human form, imprinted with Jean’s personality, while Jean’s body was sequestered underwater. Then in Morrison’s conception, Phoenix was a separate consciousness dwelling within Jean, its agenda informed by her humanity. In Pak’s Phoenix:Endsong, even after the death of Jean, the Phoenix not only survived but was still imprinted with Jean’s psyche. Presumably that’s why Phoenix now shows an interest in saving mutantkind from Weapon XIV. I see two warring anthropologies (views of humanity) at work here. Claremont portrays men as capable of good but also prone to corruption simply by exposure to power. We don’t have to be possessed by evil demons to be evil; the evil is latent within us already, and the combination of unsatisfied hunger and action without consequence can tempt even a virtuous X-Man to commit genocide. But the newer iterations of Phoenix have a lot more to say about the salubrious effects of Jean on Phoenix than vice versa. This issue also confirms what we might have expected about John Sublime: He now exists only as an AI, not a person, like Armin Zola in the Captain America: The Winter Soldier film. Phoenix destroys zombie Esme and Sophie as well; their presence in this story proves inconsequential, except as an opportunity to include zombies at a time when pop culture was big on zombies.
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Post by rberman on Nov 10, 2018 19:39:32 GMT -5
Phoenix: Warsong #5 (March 2007)
The Story: Sublime commands the Cuckoo mega-collective to kill the X-Men with Phoenix power, but Celeste is holding them back. The X-Men sever the three Cuckoos from the machinery, which causes the hive mind to cease operating. Phoenix exist the Cuckoos then re-enters Celeste alone and destroys the thousand other Cuckoos. Celeste drives Phoenix out from her temporarily; when Phoenix tries to re-enter her, she splits Phoenix into three components which are trapped within the “organic diamond hearts” of the three Cuckoos forever. Emma swears vengeance against Phoenix for destroying the thousand Cuckoos, whenever she dares show her beak again. My Two Cents: Not a very satisfying conclusion. Does anyone believe that the hearts of three human mutants are strong enough to contain Phoenix “forever”? Never mind the fact that no one expects the Cuckoos to live forever, unless that’s Pak’s explanation for their youthful appearance 150 years from now in Morrison’s “Here Comes Tomorrow” story. (Nah, that can’t be, because Jean-Phoenix is a major part of that story, and the Cuckoos die in that story without releasing Phoenix.) That aside, does anyone believe that three human hearts (the literal organ in your chest) can entomb a cosmic entity? And even if it were true, would we expect any of the characters to know such a thing with certainty, and to bank the survival of Earth on it? And to live forever? Nope, nope, nope. Also, I don’t buy Emma’s maternal affection for these thousand clones grown from eggs stolen from her body. She’d feel violated and enraged and maybe threatened. Furthermore, swearing vengeance against Phoenix is about as productive as declaring a vendetta against a tornado that killed your family.
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Post by rberman on Mar 9, 2019 8:33:43 GMT -5
Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown #1 “Mexican Standoff” (December 1988)Creative Team: Written by Walter and Louise Simonson. Art is by John J. Muth (for Havok) and Kent Williams (for Wolverine). The Story: General Meltdown and Dr. Neutron, two unseen foes of Soviet premiere Mikhail Gorbachev, spend several pages discussing the physics of a nuclear plant meltdown and then causing a meltdown at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, a historical event of 1986 in which a late-night safety test went awry, and an explosion released radioactive material into the Ukranian atmosphere. In our story, this disaster was precipitated by bribery of nuclear engineers who didn’t realize the consequences of their new instructions until it was too late. (14 pages) Alex Summers and Logan are on a Mexican holiday and have made a bet as to who can go the longest without using his powers. A bar fight is followed by an assault on their hotel. They steal a 1957 convertible to escape, and its call girl owner insists on coming along with them. She’s surprisingly (or perhaps suspiciously) unflappable in the face of bullets headed their way. (10 pages) Car chase! The bad guys have laser rifles, and eventually Alex feels obliged to use his Havok powers to defeat them. This confirms his identity, which is what the “call girl” was waiting for. She plugs Logan with a half dozen bullets impregnated with Bubonic Plague. (9 pages) Logan awakens in the hospital, sicker than a dog. He’s told that Alex died of plague. Recovering due to his healing factor, he staggers to the graveyard. Alex’s grave has the wrong scent, and sure enough, digging it up reveals only a pile of rocks. Who took, Alex, and why? (11 pages) My Two Cents: This series was published under the Epic imprint. The cover is thick card stock that would seem to make a storage backboard redundant. It also doesn’t bend well; just opening the cover to read tends to put tiny creases in it. The notion of two artists to handle two characters is unusual and at least in my experience is novel. The painted style looks as nice as it did on Muth’s work for DeMatteis’ Moonshadow series for Epic. Pastel earth tones predominate, in keeping with the non-superhero story and the dusty Mexican setting. Kent Williams makes Logan bizarre, clownish even with his hair tufts grown out into drooping jester horns. Havok for me was one of those also-ran X-Men characters that never had a story to make me care about him, but Simonson is already turning that around in just one issue. We’ll see where this goes.
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Post by urrutiap on Mar 10, 2019 11:01:42 GMT -5
Next month im planning on making a road trip out of town to the comic book shop and I was wondering if old Uncanny X Men issues 235 to 240 are worth buying and reading? Inferno though Im not fond of but issues 235 to whatever has Wolverine and Rogue depowered and theyre trying to escape that one area which I heard bout??
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Post by spoon on Mar 10, 2019 14:15:50 GMT -5
rberman ... What the purpose of the White Costume of Phoenix? When Chris Claremont took over writing the X-Men reboot from Len Wein, he and artist Dave Cockrum discussed how boring Jean Grey was, so they decided to change her substantially. Dave Cockrum came up with numerous costume designs, as pictured below. He favored the white one on the far right, but Archie Goodwin pointed out that on thin newsprint, with a large section of white (unprinted) color, you'd be able to see the art bleeding through from the other side of every page. So Claremont and Cockrum went with the third Phoenix design pictured below, the one with the green and gold colors of Jean's previous Marvel Girl costume. "White Phoenix" eventually did make it into print almost thirty years later though, on better paper with better ink. Grant Morrison's final story arc on New X-Men was a challenging read, loaded with symbolism. You can read my summary and explanation of it starting here. The short version is that Grant Morrison believes that the multiverse is real, and comic book characters live in an alternate dimension which authors subconsciously access and then write about. Morrison saw Phoenix as a trans-dimensional being, able to stand above it all in what he termed the "White Hot Room," a state of omniversal awareness. In a form that he called "White Phoenix of the Crown," Jean Grey prevented a disastrous future (a future treated as an "infection" for which Phoenix was the cure) by remaking reality, causing Scott Summers to fall in love with Emma Frost upon Jean's death at the hands of Magneto. The "of the crown" part of "White Phoenix of the crown" is a bit of Hindu philosophy thrown into the mix concerning chakras, energy points in the body which enhance consciousness. In his typical fashion, Morrison threw all of these high concepts up in the air and then fled the building (returning to DC as Chief Creative Officer) before they hit the ground, leaving the other X-Men writers like Chris Claremont and Greg Pak to make sense of what Morrison had done, and try to integrate it into the forty years of X-Men continuity that existed up to that point. The Endsong/Warsong story represents Greg Pak's contribution to that, trying to literalize Morrison's more symbolic and philosophical notions so that they represent actual persons in the Marvel Universe. Thus, Morrison's "White Phoenix of the Crown" was a symbolic character in an imaginary future, representing the satori (state of expanded consciousness) promised by eastern religions. But Pak's White Phoenix seems to simply represent the most benign, healing avatar of Phoenix, as represented by the pure white clothing, rather than the dark red suit of Dark Phoenix or the green clothing most associated with Jean-as-Phoenix. Similarly, Morrison' "White Hot Room" was basically Nirvana, a state of ultimate peace but also nothingness. Phoenix presumably returns to this state every time it ceases to manifest in the universe (as with, say, the original death of Jean Grey in X-Men #137). But Chris Claremont concretized the White Hot Room as a dimension to which anyone might be sent, under the right circumstances, and have visions of all of their own alternate selves, as seen in this scene with Psylocke and Rachel Summers from the 2005 "House of M" storyline: Personally, I would have just ignored Morrison's high concept stuff rather than tried to shoehorn it into continuity, just as they ignored Morrison's explanation of who Xorn was, his desecration and then killing of Magneto, his alternate explanation of Weapon X, etc. I've read very little of Morrison's X-Men, but a white Phoenix costume that saw print way back in 1990, way before his time. In the back story to Classic X-Men #43 (which reprinted the death of Phoenix as its first story), Phoenix appears in an all-white costume (not even any gold). It's an unusual story that appears to take place in some sort of afterlife.
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Post by rberman on Mar 10, 2019 18:36:52 GMT -5
Next month im planning on making a road trip out of town to the comic book shop and I was wondering if old Uncanny X Men issues 235 to 240 are worth buying and reading? Inferno though Im not fond of but issues 235 to whatever has Wolverine and Rogue depowered and theyre trying to escape that one area which I heard bout?? In case your question was directed to me... I dropped out of buying comics in late 1986, so X-Men from the low 200s on are a mystery to me until Grant Morrison took over with New X-Men. So I can't answer your question from my own reading. But hey, it's only six issues you're asking about, so give em a whirl and tell us about it!
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Post by rberman on Mar 10, 2019 18:40:01 GMT -5
Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown #2 “Tender Loving Lies!” (December 1988)The Story: Logan realizes the bar fight last issue was a set-up intended to draw him and Alex into revealing their powers. One of the participants in the brawl sets Logan on the trail of its instigator. The participants were paid in Russian rubles. Interesting. Logan lures another attacker to his hotel in hopes of interrogating them. It works; he follows the trail toward Distant Haven, an abandoned coastal resort (14 pages) Alex Summers awakens in a fake hospital under the care of Quark (but she calls herself Scarlett), a Gillian Anderson-looking psychiatrist who poses as a nurse, dosing him with hypnotic drugs and subliminal video footage of nuclear protests. She adds a dollop of sex appeal to the presentation as well, but so far none of it works. Also, Alex’s power makes him invisible to video cameras; he can only be observed directly. (12 pages) General Meltdown and Dr. Nucleus are revealed as inmates at a Soviet asylum run by Quark. They discuss her mental instability and clearly have their own scheme aside from an alliance with her. She is apparently the same woman who posed as a call girl in Mexico. So… she’s a legit psychiatrist but also a field agent trained in firearms? Only in comic books, folks… (4 pages) Quark plays a charade in which Alex must rescue her from a threatening C.I.A. agent. How romantic! This gets him to agree to travel to Poland with her in a creaky biplane. Logan arrives at Distant Haven just in time to get caught in a booby trap explosion that Quark left behind. Alex sees that distant explosion from the biplane as evidence that he should help Quark. (15 pages) My Two Cents: Though separated, Alex and Logan are driven by a mutual conviction, grounded in past experience, that the other can’t possibly be dead. Each is more interested in helping the other than preserving himself. Logan is playing a similar game to Steeljack in Astro City. His healing power specially qualifies him to play Human Target in order to smoke his enemies out of hiding. Alex on the other hand proves more vulnerable to human affection than he realized; the opportunity to help a beautiful woman play out a spy thriller is to alluring to pass up. She is the one telling the “tender loving lies” mentioned in the title.” Is Alex Summers a biplane pilot? Scott Summers is a pilot. I thought Alex Summers was a geology grad student at one point. I also don’t have any idea what Alex’s relationship with Polaris was like at this point in the late 80s, but in this story he has no such relationship it seems.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 10, 2019 21:31:53 GMT -5
Next month im planning on making a road trip out of town to the comic book shop and I was wondering if old Uncanny X Men issues 235 to 240 are worth buying and reading? Inferno though Im not fond of but issues 235 to whatever has Wolverine and Rogue depowered and theyre trying to escape that one area which I heard bout?? That's exactly when I dropped the book, after collecting for about one hundred issues, so I'd say no, they are not worth it.
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Post by rberman on Mar 11, 2019 8:26:32 GMT -5
Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown #3 “Duel” (January 1989)The Story: Alex flies the biplane to Merida, where a private supersonic jet awaits. Quark has to do some fast talking to allay Alex’s suspicions about how she has all these resources conveniently at her hand. He ultimately buys her story, and they spend the plane ride from Mexico to Poland engaged in some activity for two people, such as Checkers. (ten pages) General Meltdown practices his energy blasts and discusses how Havok somehow is the power to help him focus his energy more effectively. The plan appears to be to convince Havok to shoot Meltdown with a full-strength attack of his own. Meltdown is worried that Quark’s “Scarlett” nurse persona is falling in love with Alex Summers and may pose an obstacle. Dr. Neutron urges patience. (seven pages) Wolverine follows Alex's trail to Merida, where he is caught in a taser trap set up by Quark. Her associates brainwash Wolverine to kill on their command. (fifteen pages) In a Carpathian castle, Alex is surprised by insane Logan and is forced to kill him to save himself. He swears veangeance. (fourteen pages) My Two Cents: A decent “rising action” leading to the titular duel. Logan even feigns sanity for a moment to draw Alex in for an attack. The relationship between Quark and Meltdown and Neutron is still poorly defined; we’ll see if the climax helps. Kent Williams draws the loopiest Wolverine cowl you have ever seen, does he not?
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Post by k7p5v on Mar 11, 2019 14:10:48 GMT -5
Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown #2 “Tender Loving Lies!” (December 1988)The Story: Logan realizes the bar fight last issue was a set-up intended to draw him and Alex into revealing their powers. One of the participants in the brawl sets Logan on the trail of its instigator. The participants were paid in Russian rubles. Interesting. Logan lures another attacker to his hotel in hopes of interrogating them. It works; he follows the trail toward Distant Haven, an abandoned coastal resort (14 pages) Alex Summers awakens in a fake hospital under the care of Quark (but she calls herself Scarlett), a Gillian Anderson-looking psychiatrist who poses as a nurse, dosing him with hypnotic drugs and subliminal video footage of nuclear protests. She adds a dollop of sex appeal to the presentation as well, but so far none of it works. Also, Alex’s power makes him invisible to video cameras; he can only be observed directly. (12 pages) General Meltdown and Dr. Nucleus are revealed as inmates at a Soviet asylum run by Quark. They discuss her mental instability and clearly have their own scheme aside from an alliance with her. She is apparently the same woman who posed as a call girl in Mexico. So… she’s a legit psychiatrist but also a field agent trained in firearms? Only in comic books, folks… (4 pages) Quark plays a charade in which Alex must rescue her from a threatening C.I.A. agent. How romantic! This gets him to agree to travel to Poland with her in a creaky biplane. Logan arrives at Distant Haven just in time to get caught in a booby trap explosion that Quark left behind. Alex sees that distant explosion from the biplane as evidence that he should help Quark. (15 pages) My Two Cents: Though separated, Alex and Logan are driven by a mutual conviction, grounded in past experience, that the other can’t possibly be dead. Each is more interested in helping the other than preserving himself. Logan is playing a similar game to Steeljack in Astro City. His healing power specially qualifies him to play Human Target in order to smoke his enemies out of hiding. Alex on the other hand proves more vulnerable to human affection than he realized; the opportunity to help a beautiful woman play out a spy thriller is to alluring to pass up. She is the one telling the “tender loving lies” mentioned in the title.” Is Alex Summers a biplane pilot? Scott Summers is a pilot. I thought Alex Summers was a geology grad student at one point. I also don’t have any idea what Alex’s relationship with Polaris was like at this point in the late 80s, but in this story he has no such relationship it seems. During this time, Alex and Lorna were separated. Mainly because Lorna joined up with the Marauders after being mind-controlled by Malice.
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