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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 11:17:39 GMT -5
I find Franklin a little bit a dodo bird and that's one of the reasons that I don't care for Reed and Susan's Sons. If I had it my way, they should be childless and stick being Superheroes. I don't mind Franklin when he's being written well but he has to be the most inconsistently portrayed character in the Marvel universe. In FF/MTIO he appeared to be around 10-11 and then in Power Pack he was back to being a toddler. I think later it was explained to be a result of his reality-warping powers which is why no one ever noticed, but I don't understand why editorial didn't force writers to be more consistent about it. I completely understand you and I just felt that this character is so inconsistent and like you said that Marvel Editorial Staff was not consistent with him and that bothers me a lot. I stopped reading Fantastic Four when he came on board. Thanks for sharing your views and I wished that I could written better in the first place. Nobody Perfect Anyway ...
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Post by rberman on Oct 3, 2018 21:07:14 GMT -5
Fallen Angels #4 “A Devil Among the Angels!” (July 1987)
Theme: Running away from dinosaurs The Story: Ariel has transported everyone to an alien planet that looks like prehistoric Earth, where they are immediately menaced by a large quadruped dinosaur. Everybody splits up, reunites with a whole lot of bickering and some aggressive use of powers, and Roberto introduces them to his new friends “Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy,” about whom I’ll have more to say next issue. Background: Who is Vanisher? The X-Men’s first and greatest foe (but sometimes ally) has always been Magneto, their antagonist in many of their first two dozen issues. But issue #2 of the original series introduced another foe not quite so formidable, the Vanisher. His super-power makes him something of a utility player. He can escape quickly and go places, but once he’s there, he’s dependent upon goons or guns to make something happen. In his first encounter with the X-Men, Professor Xavier easily neutralizes Vanisher, while the X-Men clean up his human cronies. He laid low for the most part after that, though he did appear in X-Men #37-9 as a member of the villainous Factor Three, once again showing the minimal usefulness of his power during toe-to-toe combat. In Champions #17 (January 1978), an interaction with Darkstar’s darkforce would leave the Vanisher suspended in mid-teleport. This situation was resolved in the legendary/infamous Bizarre Adventures #27 (July 1981), in which Mary Jo Duffy and Bob Layton sent Vanisher and Nightcrawler on a comic misadventure across dimensions. Artist Dave Cockrum would later use this story as a jumping off point for the Nightcrawler limited series which I already reviewed, while Duffy would continue the misadventures of the Vanisher in Fallen Angels.My Two Cents: This issue mainly exists to kill time waiting for the final splash page to arrive. Ariel says that she brought everyone to this place to find two extra-special mutants, meaning Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy. We don’t know much about her yet, so her motives for this quest are as yet unclear. The main other bit of character development in this issue is that Boom Boom thinks Madrox is cute, and is jealous of the cozy way that Siryn talks to him. Also, Roberto displays unexpected strength, even for him, at one point when standing near Chance. Kerry Gamill is back on pencils. Unfortunately Tom Palmer has disappeared from inks, replaced by Val Mayerik, and I miss him already.
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Post by rberman on Oct 4, 2018 19:38:59 GMT -5
Fallen Angels #5 “Lost and Found” (August 1987)
Theme: Hunter/gatherers The Story: Somehow the gang has returned from Devil Dinosaur’s planet to Earth, bringing Devil and Moon Boy along. Everybody runs around for the whole issue stealing enough food to feed a Tyrannosaurus. Good luck with that! Then Devil Dinosaur accidentally steps on Don the Lobster, smooshing him and fulfilling the “This Issue – an Angel Dies!” blurb on the cover. Boom Boom, pining over Madrox, is delighted to run into the rogue Madrox duplicate out on the street. What a coincidence! He talks with the other Madrox about not wanting to rejoin into a single body. Who Are Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy? One of the comics debuting during Jack Kirby’s late 70s stint at Marvel was a prehistoric yarn about a T-Rex and his pet monkey-boy. The two lived in the prehistoric past and on an alternate dimension, which tended to limit their interactions with the Marvel Universe. But they did manage to come to “our” Nevada once, and their own dimension saw brief visits from The Hulk, The Thing, and Godzilla. But other than that, they existed only in the nine issues of Devil Dinosaur which Kirby produced in 1978. Devil’s red color was eventually claimed to be a mutation. My Two Cents: Did we miss an issue? The last page of the previous issue showed the Beat Street Club encountering Devil Dinosaur on another planet. Now they are back in the clubhouse somehow. This is like one of those Silver Age stories that falls apart as soon as you start asking basic questions about how and why people are doing the things they are doing. How did the gang get back to Earth, without a door for Ariel to activate with her power? How did Devil Dinosaur fit through whatever door Ariel made? Why did Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur come to Earth? Why is Devil docilely sitting in a room barely big enough to contain him? Ariel, Gomi, and Warlock discover that one wall of the Clubhouse is connected to a winch and can be raised into the ceiling to give access to loading bay on the other side, a space large enough for Devil Dinosaur to occupy. How convenient! No reason is given why Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy agreed to come to Earth, or how Devil fit through whatever door Ariel made. At this point Jo Duffy is just throwing the plot forward and hoping we don’t ask any questions about little things like “Why are people doing these things?” and “How are people doing these things?” I have a feeling Jim Shooter was out of town when these issues were released, and editor Ann Nocenti seems to be asleep at the wheel. There’s also some confusion regarding Moon Boy’s speech. We see his word balloons in English, but comments by the other characters indicate that they can’t understand what he’s saying. OK, he’s an alien, so that would make sense. But then how to they know to talk about “Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur” in the first place? Maybe that was part of the research that Ariel did before going to pick up Moon and Devil in the first place, but it’s not said. And that wouldn’t explain how Moon Boy knows names like “Beat Street.” Overall, it’s another meandering story that gives us no idea what’s going on in this series. There’s no clear protagonist with a goal in mind. Bobby and Warlock are bit players at this point. The cast is too large to give us a clear focus. We do learn a little about Ariel’s motivation: She is gathering mutants because her own planet (yes, she’s an alien) has no mutants, which is apparently a problem. She has promised Chance money for helping. Another art change, with Val Mayerik inking Joe Staton.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Oct 5, 2018 15:29:07 GMT -5
Another art change, with Val Mayerik penciling Joe Staton. I think that should say Mayerik inking Joe Staton.
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Post by rberman on Oct 5, 2018 17:39:34 GMT -5
Another art change, with Val Mayerik penciling Joe Staton. I think that should say Mayerik inking Joe Staton. You are correct! I will fix it.
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Post by rberman on Oct 5, 2018 17:49:51 GMT -5
Fallen Angels #6 “The Coconut Grove” (September 1987)
Theme: Still more talking The Story: Roberto consoles Gomi over the accidental death-by-dinosaur-squishing of Don the Lobster last issue. Siryn questions Roberto’s application of Roman Catholic theology to the situation but praises his good intentions. Roberto also feels that Devil has shown more maturity in accidentally hurting Don than he himself showed in accidentally hurting Sam Guthrie. Or maybe Devil just has nowhere else to go than where Moon Boy is. Bobby is obliged to intervene when Bill the lobster comes looking for vengeance from Devil. Madrox talks more with his recalcitrant duplicate who doesn’t want to rejoin into one body. Does he have a secondary mutation of reluctance? Speaking of mutation, Chance’s mutant power causes everyone else’s mutations to switch off. This has the unexpected effect of turning Warlock hostile, since his mutation is that he is the only compassionate member of his race. Gomi’s telekinetic power turns back on just in time to save Boom Boom from being killed by Warlock. (The rogue Madrox’s desire to remain separate does not get canceled by Chance’s power on this or any future occasion, which would tend to show that it’s not a secondary mutation after all. Or just that Duffy didn’t think things through.) Ariel convinces everyone that the loss of their powers was an attack by unseen mutant haters. She takes everyone to her home planet of Coconut Grove, which is a giant night club. At least, the part that we see is. For all we know, the rest is volcanoes. My Two Cents: Until the last two pages, the whole issue consists of people sitting around the Beat Street Clubhouse, talking and fighting each other. There are several little stories moving forward (Gomi has a crush on Siryn; Boom Boom has a crush on Madrox; Madrox’s two bodies respect each other’s personal autonomy), but our putative main characters Roberto and Warlock are still just spectators to it all. This issue doesn’t even get a proper climax at the end, just a “continued…” in the middle of a scene showing us around Coconut Grove. I continue to suspect that something went badly wrong in the production of this series, and Marvel was forced to rush it out the door in its incomplete state. I contacted original artist Kerry Gammill about the evolution of the series and its production schedule, and he generously responded: Now we know! Thanks, Kerry. Art is once again by Staton and Mayerik on this issue. Chance says that Roberto looks like an ape. Not cool.
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Post by rberman on Oct 6, 2018 13:14:29 GMT -5
Fallen Angels #7 “Triple Crisis” (October 1987)
Theme: Captured! Eventually The Story: The denizens of Coconut Grove quickly garb our heroes are in some very 80s-looking clubwear. For most of this issue, the characters just sort of cavort around the nightclub and re-deliver exposition about their abilities which we’ve already heard in previous issues. Then things get ugly toward the end. Ariel has brought these mutants here so that her people can experiment on them and develop similar abilities themselves. Everybody is captured, even Ariel, who despite her protestations really is a mutant. My Two Cents: Yay, back to Gammill on breakdowns and Palmer on the rest of the art! For a minute at the end of the last issue it appeared that the overall plot of the series was finally lurching forward. But instead this issue, like the three before it, is very long on various random conversations without much forward motion until the very end. I do not know what the “triple crisis” mentioned in the issue title is. Ariel claims to be the descendant of the trickster character Ariel from William Shakespeare’s play “The Tempest.” She reiterates that her power doesn’t work without a door on each end for her to manipulate, though this contradicts what we saw happen in the trip to Devil Dinosaur’s planet. Devil Dinosaur is barely taller than a human in some of these frames. The planet “Coconut Grove” may refer to an actual place in Florida with that name, or to the 1980 song “American Dream” by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, in which the singer’s woman wants to vacation in Augusta, GA while he wants to go to the Caribbean, and so “We’ll split the difference [and] go to Coconut Grove.” It’s a vacation spot but also a compromise.
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Post by rberman on Oct 7, 2018 7:20:41 GMT -5
Fallen Angels #8 “Grownups and Children” (November 1987)
Theme: Fighting to freedom The Story: The captured gang spends several pages discussing their lives and their pight until Bill the Lobster shows up with the jail keys, having somehow overwhelmed a series of guards. The second half of the issue is a drama-free fight whose main point of interest is that Chance learns to control whether she is canceling or doubling the powers of other mutants. Ariel returns them all to the Beat Street Clubhouse, and Roberto and Warlock decide (for no particular reason besides the fact that this is the final issue of the mini-series) that it’s time to go back to the New Mutants. My Two Cents: Art is now the novel combination of Tony DeZuniga inking Joe Staton. Also, Tom DeFalco makes his debut as editor-in-chief this month. Duffy tries to deal with the plot hole that the prison cell which cancels mutations ought to send Warlock on a murderous rampage since compassion is his mutation. Siryn suggests that Warlock has actually learned compassion and now possesses it inherently. What, in the two hours since he was trying to kill Boom Boom the last time his compassion mutation was canceled? Nice try, but no. The “grownups” part of the plot refers to Roberto convincing the rogue Madrox that we don’t always get what we want, and he should deny his impulse to remain a separate copy. Can you tell that I found this series quite tedious? It has a very brief plot, stretched out over too many issues and padded with inconsequential conversations. One clue for its downfall can be found in Marvel Age #48 (March 1987, the month before issue #1 was published), which said that this would be a four issue series. But the story suffers from the doubling of its page count, and break between issues 7 and 8 in particular can’t possibly have been planned from the beginning. In Marvel Age, Gammill reported that Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy were intended to appear in “the last two issues” of the four issue series, whereas instead they debuted in issue #4 of 8 but then did absolutely nothing except for the time that Devil crushed Don the lobster. So we’ll have to write this series off as the most serious misfire of the X-Men series of the mid-80s. Jo Duffy worked with peniler Colleen Doran and inker Terry Austin (!) on two issues of a follow-up series which was canned before any of it was ever released. It would have broken up Madrox and Siryn, as depicted on this unpublished splash page: Was there anything good about this series? Sure, how about: • Tom Palmer’s inks were great as usual. • Siryn and Madrox get promoted from the D list to the B list, and the “rogue Madrox” story was the most interesting element of this series. • Boom Boom gets a spotlight, presaging her move into the main X-Men books. • Bringing Devil Dinosaur firmly into mainstream Marvel continuity makes him available for future stories. • The notion of Vanisher as a skeezy, flawed father figure to a bunch of mutant orphans has potential. He would eventually be folded into X-Men as an unreliable ally, which is more interesting than his original bank robber persona.
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Post by rberman on Oct 7, 2018 7:34:23 GMT -5
Wolverine #1 “I’m Wolverine” (September 1982)
The Story: In a six page prologue, Logan tracks a crazed bear in the Canadian Rockies, ends him, and then punishes the hunter who poisoned the bear. “The bear lasted longer. But I let him live.” Then comes the meat of the series. Logan’s letters to his Japanese girlfriend Mariko have been returned unopened, and her family won’t accept his calls. Traveling to Japan, he discovers that she’s been married to settle a debt of her father, a Yakuza boss. Logan confronts her and learns that her husband abuses her. Ninjas poison Logan with shuriken, and he engages in an honor duel with Mariko’s father, Lord Shingen, using wooden practice swords. Logan becomes enraged and switches to using his claws, a serious breach of the honor code of duels, but Shingen defeats Logan anyway and dumps his body in a Tokyo alley, where he’s found by a mysterious woman warrior who somehow knows him. My Two Cents: Chris Claremont recalls that this series originated in a six hour car ride he took with Frank Miller from San Diego Comic-Con to Los Angeles. (It took so long because of Border Patrol searches backing up traffic.) They agreed that Wolverine would be more interesting as a “failed samurai” than simply a bloodthirsty berserker. Miller reportedly threw out the script that Claremont sent him for the first issue of the series, obliging Claremont adapt a script, mostly an internal narrative monologue, to accompany Miller’s images. Frank was still scripting Daredevil for Klaus Janson but was no longer drawing it himself, and Wolverine showcased Miller’s love for balletic fight scenes. And ninjas. This story is as straightforward as can be imagined. Logan’s goals are clear and classic: His beloved is in a danger that he must fix but cannot. His attempt to intervene only discredits him in her eyes, or so it seems. His claws only get him into trouble, violating the rules of the engagement in a society that cares more about how you win or lose than whether you win. Kudos go not only to Miller for his excellent compositions but to Josef Rubinstein for excellent inking. This issue is simply fun to look at, story aside. Miller draws Wolverine’s claws impossibly; they are both too long and too bladelike (surely an inch tall at least) to fit invisibly inside his forearms. But it fits with the ninja theme. Future artists sometimes seemed to be in an unofficial contest to make the claws as impossibly large as possible. When monologuing about Mariko’s lineage, Logan discusses his own: “I know my father.” Does he really know his father is Sabretooth at this point? If not, who is he talking about? Logan also talks about all these letters that he’s sent Mariko that have just now been returned. To where were they returned? The middle of the Canadian Rockies? Surely his mailing address is at the Xavier Institute these days.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Oct 7, 2018 8:02:46 GMT -5
When monologuing about Mariko’s lineage, Logan discusses his own: “I know my father.” Does he really know his father is Sabretooth at this point? If not, who is he talking about? Claremont probably considered Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father, from a suggestion by John Byrne, but according to Origin by Paul Jenkins, Joe Quesada anb Bill Jemas, Wolverine is the illegitimate son of Thomas Logan.
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Post by rberman on Oct 7, 2018 8:12:01 GMT -5
When monologuing about Mariko’s lineage, Logan discusses his own: “I know my father.” Does he really know his father is Sabretooth at this point? If not, who is he talking about? Claremont probably considered Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father, from a suggestion by John Byrne, but according to Origin by Paul Jenkins, Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas, Wolverine is the illegitimate son of Thomas Logan. Claremont definitely envisions Sabretooth as Logan's father today, with his mother being an angel who lives in Madripoor. But I was wondering whether that was what Claremont thought in 1982 when he wrote that Logan knew who his father was. The story of Logan evolved substantially over time, even just under Claremont's pen.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Oct 7, 2018 9:08:15 GMT -5
Claremont definitely envisions Sabretooth as Logan's father today, with his mother being an angel who lives in Madripoor. But I was wondering whether that was what Claremont thought in 1982 when he wrote that Logan knew who his father was. The story of Logan evolved substantially over time, even just under Claremont's pen. Claremont and Byrne are said to have decided Sabretooth was Wolverine's father while they were co-plotting X-Men, which would have been before 1982, but I don't know whether Wolverine would have known in 1982.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 11:28:51 GMT -5
chaykinstevens & rberman -- According to the last three posts here; correct me if I'm wrong here. This is the first time that I've learned that Sabertooth is Wolverine Father?!? ... I did not know that.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Oct 7, 2018 12:31:45 GMT -5
chaykinstevens & rberman -- According to the last three posts here; correct me if I'm wrong here. This is the first time that I've learned that Sabertooth is Wolverine Father?!? ... I did not know that. Claremont and Byrne intended Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father, but never established it in a comic. Byrne had done a design for what Wolverine looked like under his mask, not realising that Dave Cockrum had already shown Logan's face. Byrne gave the face he had designed to Sa bretooth in Iron Fist #14. They thought Wolverine was about 60 years old and Sabretooth was around 120. Claremont had the idea that Sabetooth tracks and beats up Wolverine every year on Logan's birthday. They intended to do a story in which Sabretooth killed Mariko, then Wolverine killed Sabretooth, beating him for the first time. After Claremont had ceased writing Wolverine, Larry Hama and Marc Silvestri did a story in Wolverine #42-43 in which Sabretooth told Wolverine he was his father, but at the end of the story, Nick Fury told Wolverinbe that blood tests showed this was not true, although Sabretooth believed it. In the 2001 series Wolverine:the Origin, it was revealed that Wolverine is the illegitimate son of one Thomas Logan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 12:35:51 GMT -5
chaykinstevens & rberman -- According to the last three posts here; correct me if I'm wrong here. This is the first time that I've learned that Sabertooth is Wolverine Father?!? ... I did not know that. Claremont and Byrne intended Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father, but never established it in a comic. Byrne had done a design for what Wolverine looked like under his mask, not realising that Dave Cockrum had already shown Logan's face. Byrne gave the face he had designed to Sa bretooth in Iron Fist #14. They thought Wolverine was about 60 years old and Sabretooth was around 120. Claremont had the idea that Sabetooth tracks and beats up Wolverine every year on Logan's birthday. They intended to do a story in which Sabretooth killed Mariko, then Wolverine killed Sabretooth, beating him for the first time. After Claremont had ceased writing Wolverine, Larry Hama and Marc Silvestri did a story in Wolverine #42-43 in which Sabretooth told Wolverine he was his father, but at the end of the story, Nick Fury told Wolverinbe that blood tests showed this was not true, although Sabretooth believed it. In the 2001 series Wolverine:the Origin, it was revealed that Wolverine is the illegitimate son of one Thomas Logan. Thanks for this ... appreciate it very much!
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