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Post by dbutler69 on Feb 19, 2019 10:12:21 GMT -5
I think almost nobody knew anything about the differences in the martial arts at the time besides writers and artists of comic books. Hollywood was exploiting a foreign film element they knew nothing about other than suddenly it was big news and selling all across America. No reason to think of accuracy when mimicry is the natural process. Corporations make their living off changing anything which already exists into some type of format or function that they can sell. Comic books jumped on the martial arts band wagon as quick as they could hoping to cash in with readers looking for something more exotic than the typical fisticuffs of the superhero world. In Iron Man #100 from 1977 (Bill Mantlo), the Mandarin is described as being an expert in Karate. I'm thinking "karate is Japanese. Shouldn't the Mandarin, being Chinese, be into some Chinese form of fighting, such as Kung Fu?" I'm no martial arts expert by any means, but even I know that much.
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Post by dbutler69 on Feb 19, 2019 10:15:28 GMT -5
Marvel Premiere #21 I liked the story in Marvel Premiere #21, but the art was not that great.
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Post by dbutler69 on Feb 19, 2019 10:22:50 GMT -5
Marvel Fanfare #14 I thought this one was pretty lousy. I thought, like you, Klaw was way too dumb, especially for somebody who's supposed to be an inventor, and the Quicksilver story wasn't so great, either.
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Post by rberman on Feb 19, 2019 12:26:53 GMT -5
The only Klaw I knew was the one whose brains had been turned to mush. He followed Dr. Doom around Secret Wars like a court jester.
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 19, 2019 13:34:42 GMT -5
I wonder how artists felt about doing a really nice dramatic detailed cover for Marvel Fanfare and then seeing the cartoon of Al Milgrom in the corner?
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2019 13:54:20 GMT -5
I think almost nobody knew anything about the differences in the martial arts at the time besides writers and artists of comic books. Hollywood was exploiting a foreign film element they knew nothing about other than suddenly it was big news and selling all across America. No reason to think of accuracy when mimicry is the natural process. Corporations make their living off changing anything which already exists into some type of format or function that they can sell. Comic books jumped on the martial arts band wagon as quick as they could hoping to cash in with readers looking for something more exotic than the typical fisticuffs of the superhero world. In Iron Man #100 from 1977 (Bill Mantlo), the Mandarin is described as being an expert in Karate. I'm thinking "karate is Japanese. Shouldn't the Mandarin, being Chinese, be into some Chinese form of fighting, such as Kung Fu?" I'm no martial arts expert by any means, but even I know that much. Karate is a Japanese word; but, there are Chinese versions of the same fighting style. You get a lot of regional variances in Asian martial arts styles, in China alone. A lot of that has to do with the terrain and cultural influences. Areas that were prone to mud or marshes developed "softer" styles, since your footing might not be great, vs areas of more solid ground. Indonesia has a form, pencak silat, which features some forms that almost look like falling down, that may have been influenced by the jungle features of the island chain. At the heart of most styles, though, are striking and kicking techniques. Others focused more on grappling, like jiu-jitsu. Some were more of a mixture, due to cross-pollination of cultural influences. Comic book and Hollywood martial arts have always ridden the trends. In the 30s and 40 it was judo, in the 60s it was karate, in the 70s kung fu, the 80s ninjitsu, and the 90s were the dawn of mixed martial arts, with the debut of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. In both, you got a lot of generic stuff labeled judo or karate or kung fu; same in comics. Once in a while, you got someone who knew what he was doing. Same with boxing or wrestling. You can tell from panels if the artist was a fan or at least used photo reference, via stances, punching techniques or holds. Kirby was a pro wrestling fan and threw in real holds, in some of his work. Paul Gulacy studied and used Bruce Lee images to layout sequences in Master of Kung Fu. Larry Hama's Iron Fist had more Japanese techniques; but, like I say, the ninja handles the sword properly, not just swing it around. Toth was the same way when he depicted fencing, in Zorro and elsewhere. The figures were in classic duelling poses, with their weight balanced on the balls of the feet, for quick movement. The sword was held loosely, the point always towards the opponent. The details help raise the art and the story, when they are done right.
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 19, 2019 14:17:20 GMT -5
I got up to the green belt (and almost blue) in karate (kara = empty, te = hand) at a very highly respected dojo under a Korean Sensei (yet from Japan) where you had to earn the belt, at some they kind of handed them out, they called them mall outlet 'schools'. They had me programmed enough that I accidentally hurt some other kid that came up behind me once (and then I left, it was a very weird experience to react without thought like that). I've never looked to something like Shang-Chi or Iron Fist to see if it was at all authentic, didn't imagine anyone would be looking for that from it really, but would seem a good thing if it were I guess. We had loads of Buddhist and meditation stuff in with our training and I'm still struggling with the implications of nothingness/emptiness behind it all, and I would think a lot of that zen/no mind jazz could go into a comic as well, like that David Carradine tv series (don't call me a grasshopper!). I had the real thing you could say so these comics didn't appeal to me... I only have some Iron Fists for the Claremont stories and Byrne art. I wonder how many war vets would read something like Sgt. Fury & His Howling Commandos? I took it that Shang-Chi drew pretty much entirely from Bruce Lee films. Not so much of the bowing at everyone and everything.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 15:53:45 GMT -5
I got up to the green belt (and almost blue) in karate (kara = empty, te = hand) at a very highly respected dojo under a Korean Sensei (yet from Japan) where you had to earn the belt, at some they kind of handed them out, they called them mall outlet 'schools'. They had me programmed enough that I accidentally hurt some other kid that came up behind me once (and then I left, it was a very weird experience to react without thought like that). I've never looked to something like Shang-Chi or Iron Fist to see if it was at all authentic, didn't imagine anyone would be looking for that from it really, but would seem a good thing if it were I guess. We had loads of Buddhist and meditation stuff in with our training and I'm still struggling with the implications of nothingness/emptiness behind it all, and I would think a lot of that zen/no mind jazz could go into a comic as well, like that David Carradine tv series (don't call me a grasshopper!). I had the real thing you could say so these comics didn't appeal to me... I only have some Iron Fists for the Claremont stories and Byrne art. I wonder how many war vets would read something like Sgt. Fury & His Howling Commandos? I took it that Shang-Chi drew pretty much entirely from Bruce Lee films. Not so much of the bowing at everyone and everything. The DC war books were very popular at base PXs, Sgt Fury had a respectable following, though Kirby hated that series and was happy to leave it to Dick Ayers. I doubt too many were looking to comic martial arts comics for authenticity. i'm mostly poking fun at the ignorance. That said; I felt, even at the time, that part of the reason that Gulacy's Master of Kung Fu looked so much better, was down to his attention to detail with techniques and proper use of weaponry. He did the same with the james Bond elements. Any comic where the artist puts that kind of attention to the details is going to be better than something that just has the generic trappings. With iron Fist, Larry Hama at least was able to add that to IF, in the fight scenes. it wasn't the correct style, for the character; but, it looked good and added a more authentic feel to it, compared to Gil Kane or Arvell Jones. Kane has better storytelling; but, his kicks and punches look like they could be for any character, martial artist or not. Arvell Jones is way to inexperienced to do much of t justice. Byrne wasn't much for authenticity; but, he added sucha dynamic flavor that it was like night and day. by that point, Iron Fist was pretty much a superhero who used martial arts, rather than a Martial Arts Superhero.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 18:56:10 GMT -5
Marvel Premiere #22Danny Rand, now singing soprano.... Creative Team: Isabella & Jones-story and art, A Bradford-inks, Karen Mantlo-letters, George Roussos-inks, Len Wein-edits Synopsis: The ninja has his katana pointed at Iron Fist and then goes to slash down, with the blunt side (a katana has one sharpened edge, Arvell) and Iron Fist does the old palms slapping together to trap the blade (Mythbusters did a feature on that one). He kicks away the ninja and does what I assume to be a nip-up, though Jones draws it rather clumsily. Danny vaults over the ninja and heads for Gama Singh and Karachi Vice, after first consulting the Hong Kong Book of Kung Fu. After a few, "HEEEYAH! HO! HAW!" and lots of thuds and ouches, the death cult dudes are also attacking the ninja. They are trying to keep the pair form the hottie priestesses, and then the cops show up, so the ladies skeedaddle and the ninja magics away he and Danny, who then fight it out in some kind of kung fu dimension (everyone is swiping from Ditko and it doesn't work here). The ninja tells his tale... He broke into K'un-lun and got whooped by Li-Kung, the Thunderer and was made immaterial and imprisoned in the Book of Kali (aka The Book of Many Things). The book was stolen, during one of K'un-Luns rematerializations and the ninja possessed the thief and fell in with the Cult of Kara-Kai, only to find them wanting. he caused an earthquake, which destroyed their temple and buried it and the book, until prof. Wing found it. Danny's had enough and uses the Iron Fist and the ninja uses magic and the resulting explosion sends danny back to our dimension and the ninja; who knows where? The cops are cleaning up and Danny departs with the Prof. and Colleen, after removing his mask and revealing months of mask hair. Oh, yeah, and Colleen apparently did some off-panel butt-kicking, as she is surrounded by fallen bodies... Thoughts: This gets a little too cosmic, in the end and it kind of falls flat. I think everyone in the bullpen must have fallen in love with Starlin's Captain Marvel. The art is really bad in spots, especially the last page. Jones gives Danny matted, sweaty hair; but, the effect doesn't really come off wel. The art is very sketchy in spots, with wonky anatomy. That pretty much brings an end to the whole ninja and death cult thing and it is the end for Tony Isabella and Arvell jones unspectacular run. next up are Chris Claremont and Pat Broderick, as we concintue the push into more of a superhero style for this series.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 19:29:49 GMT -5
Marvel Premiere #23Warhawk! Oh, joy! Creative Team: Chris Claremont-writer, Pat Broderick-pencils, Bob McLeod-inks, Karen Mantlo-letters, Michele Wolfman-colors, Len Wein-edits. Nepotism abounds! Synopsis: Danny rand and Colleen Wing are walking in the park, when a sniper opens fire, killing two and leaving a child to act as bait for other targets. A cop goes down trying to save the kid, until Danny gets him out and he swears vengeance and begins training to become a flying rodent-based masked vigilante. Or something. Dany spots the shooter in a nearby building and goes over there, and Colleen follows. He meets up with Warhawk.... a stereotpyed Vietnam vet, with PTSD and metal skin. Iron Fists don't match metal skin and Danny ends up badly injured and Colleen gets hit in the crossfire. Danny wakes up to Prof Wing and a cop telling him about Warhawk and that he has Colleen. Danny goes off after her. We get a pointless Kung Fu flashback (minus Keye Luke) to Danny's youth and a test to retrieve his mother's locket, from a mystical maze) and then Iron Fist catches up to Warhawk, who thinks Colleen is his Vietnamese wife, who he has dressed in her clothes (she was apparently a B-Girl) and then Danny fights him and knocks him flying with the Iron Fist. he goes through a wall, into the bay and starts drowning. Danny doesn't get to him in time. Thoughts: Sucked! Next...... Okay, this is not Claremont's best and it isn't as intriguing as even Isabella's stories. Broderick's art is an improvement, though the martial arts haven't improved much. Claremont steals more from Kung Fu than even Roy did. The story is al kinds of cliche. It appears to be somewhat inspired by the story of Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower Sniper. Whitman was an ex-Marine, court-martialled due to gambling and other violations, who came from an abusive home and had severe emotional problems. he murdered his wife and mother, then went up to the top of the Univ of Texas Tower and proceeded to shoot at passersby below, killing 14 and wounding 31, before being shot dead by Austin police officers Houston McCoy and Ramiro Martinez. The shooting was the subject of the 1975 telemovie, The Deadly Tower, starring Kurt Russell. Whitman had never seen combat; but, the telemovie plays up the idea of PTSD, even though the shooting was in 1966, before the escalation of Vietnam. Whitman was court-martialled in 1963, after being dropped from the NROTC program, due to poor grades and was forced to serve out his remaining obligation as an enlisted Marine. Any PTSD was more likely related to an abusive childhood, failed college career, marital stress, and possible complications from a brain tumor, located in an autopsy. BY 1975, the stereotype of the alienated Vietnam Vet was in a firm grasp of the public consciousness and grew across the 70s. it was fuelled by PTSD incident, involving Vietnam combat vets. As the Paul Hardcastle song, "19" notes, Vietnam vets went from the battlefield to stateside in a matter of 24 hours. The length of time in combat seemed to have a correlation with problems in adjusting back in the States. Crime rates involving vets were high. Unfortunately, but true to form, the Veterans Administration and the US Government did f@#$-all to treat vets and provide a support network. Veterans themselves ended up doing more work than anyone in this area, creating support networks that proved the only source of consequence for them and for later post-9/11 vets. TV, movies and, yes, comics, filled their screens and pages with violent, alienated vets, suffering from PTSD and mowing down crowds of people. Warhawk is a pretty bad example of this kind of story and character.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 23:24:15 GMT -5
Marvel Spotlight #21Creative Team: Steve Gerber-story, Sal Buscema-pencils, Joe Giella-inks, Karen Mantlo-letters, Petra Goldberg-colors, Len Wein-edits Synopsis: Daimon continues to run into situations that reflect his previous tarot reading... Karen Reynolds and Christine Sandt talk with a detective about Madama Swabada. He does a bit of digging and fingers point to Christine's father, who publishes the tabloid The National Eye. They did an expose of madame Swabada and her motivation seems clear. Daimon escapes the Legion of Nihilists and several other tarot-reflecting situations, while ending up in an alley, where a young boy takes him to a storefront church for sanctuary. The minister helps direct him to Madame Swabada's old place, on a tower, and he meets up with her. She is dead, or not...it's confusing. The tower crashes, but Daimon survives...or does he? His unconscious body is taken away by the police, while he looks on. Hunh? Thoughts: Really not loving this storyline. More tarot stuff, with the church scenes being the one really interesting element to the story. The investigative work into Madame Swabada's motivation is fine; but, I'm ready for this to end.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 23:47:22 GMT -5
Marvel Spotlight #22Creative Team: Gerber, Buscema, Bob McLeod-inks, Artie Simek, Phil Rache-colors, Len Wein-edits. Synopsis: Daimon is unconscious in police headquarters, while his spirit looks on. next, he finds himself in the desert, talking to Madame Swabada, who recaps things. then, we get a tour of his life, as he sees his mother, stepfather, Ikthalion, Ghost Rider, his sister Satana, and finally, reunites body and soul. He has conquered his demons and can move forward with a new life. Thoughts: Finally! Though not completely. Daimon faces his past and finally unites both sides of his soul, to face the future, as Gerber reminds us that the Death Card means change, not literal death, according to the tarot. It appears all of this was setting up a new direction, though I found it a slog. The art from Buscema and McLeod is good, though. There is one panel where Daimon rides his chariot, pulled by Katherine, Christine and Byron, which is an homage to the 1941 Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, which features a dream sequence, where Hyde rides a coach, pulled by Ingrid Bergman and Lana Turner
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 23:58:24 GMT -5
Marvel Spotlight #23Creative Team: Steve gerber & Mike friedrich (uh oh)-writers, Sal Buscema-art, Dan Green inks, John Costanza-letters, D Warfield-colors, Len Wein-edits Synopsis: Daimon returns after facing the Sons of the Serpent, in defenders #25. he runs into Darklyte, master of the Legion of Nihilists and fights an illusion. He meets up with Katherine and Byron the next day and they head to where the Legion had been and find Darklyte, who seems to kill Katherine, only to recreate multiple forms of her. Daimon uses the Fork to figure it out, then destroys the fakes, which freaks out Katherine & Byron... He faces Darklyte again and goes hellfire nuclear, destroying him and the Legion, revealing Darklyte as a shroud, filled with bugs... Ewww!! Thoughts: I assume Friedrich scripts a Gerber plot, as he departs the series. It's a wrap-up of everything so far and is....okay.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 21, 2019 0:15:38 GMT -5
Marvel Spotlight #24Creative Team: Chris Claremont-story, Sal Buscema-art, Bob McLeod-inks, John Costanza-letters, Diane Buscema-colors, Len Wein-edits So, Friedrich must of just been a fill-in. Claremont's run will be short. Synopsis: Daimon receives a letter from an old friend,worried about his sister, Gloria Hefford. daimon leaves St Louis and his supporting cast behind and dreams of Gloria, who has been hanging out with Satana, in her series. He and his sister meet up in a cemetery and it isn't a happy reunion, and ends in hellfire... Daimon then finds out that Gloria is possessed by a demon, Kthara, who faked Satana's involvement in the murder of her brother. She gets the jump on Daimon; but, Satana, still living, saves him and puts a hurtin' on Kthara. Things don't end well for brother and sister, though... Thoughts: Merciful end! I'm not a supernatural guy and this series was a hard slog that started out okay, then got worse by the end. The whole tarot thing was too much for me and this ending is the usual cliches. Claremont uses a lot of detail from satana's series, as Daimon ends up mostly a chump, here. This was it for Daimon, who would be reduced to guest star and team books, down the road, until getting a revived series, which I skipped. Personally, I don't think he ever amounted to much other than to rip off the Exorcist and the Omen, without doing anything provocative or particularly scary. New material from here on, as Marvel Spotlight becomes a home for ideas and unfinished stories, with no more extended runs. Next up, a movie adaptation!
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 21, 2019 0:42:10 GMT -5
Marvel Fanfare #15One of the good ones! Creative Team: Barry Windsor-Smith-story, art & colors, Jim Novak-letters, Al Milgrom-signed the checks. i doubt he edited much here. Synopsis: Our story begins at night, as johnny Storm is up to something, as we see him laying out various things. The next morning, Ben Grimm wakes up to his alarm clock, smashes it, then goes to the closet to get another. he shuffles to the bathroom, foot entangled in his sheet, which he destroys. he performs his morning ablutions and gets a surprise... Ben goes lookin' for Johnny, who isn't around. he finds skates at the top of the stairs and thinks Johnny is losing his touch. he fakes noises of falling, then goes to the breakfast table, where Johnny's hotcakes are waiting. After checking for boobytraps and tobasco, Ben eats one and sits down to enjoy. Suddenly, breakfast springs up into his face. Ben is ticked, now and pulls off his robe, to find the "Kick Me" sign hanging on it. Now he goes to find Johnny, steps into a corridor and ends up careening down it on a skateboard and various mobile toys, as he crashes into Dr Doom... who turns out to be a fake banner and ben crashes through more, until he hits the ultimate horror... Ben crashes through and ends up in a pit, filled with soft toys and a monitor feeding the Torch's image, saying "April Fools!" Jokes on Torch, though; it's March 31. He miscounted. Ben goes off on his day; and, that night,sets up his own prank. He then sits down in a chair and lights up a cigar, basking in his cleverness... ...a cigar we saw in Johnny's hands, on page one! Thoughts: Wickedly funny comedy piece with Ben, where Smith mostly lets the art and character tell the story and provide the comedy, with just enough dialogue to accent the gags. The ending is brilliant! Her Name is Crimson AshCreative Team: Roger McKenzie-story, Jack Sparling-art, Ian Akin & Brian Garvey-inks, Jim Novak-letters, Glynis Wein-colors, Al Milgrom-edits Synopsis: Matt Murdock looks into the case of Crimson Ash, an old childhood friend who liked to pull pranks. She trips a fire alarm, which causes the fire department to respond, delaying them from getting to a real fire, at Crimson's building, which kills her mother. She ends up in an orphanage and it burns down and she runs away. Matt, as Daredevil, goes hunting for Crimson. he finds her at the scene of a fire and confronts her; but, abandons her to save a little girl, trapped in the burning building. crimson sees that DD cares and helps him and seems to perish in the fire, as DD saves the girl. Roger Mckenzie attempts to do a Will Eisner Spirit story, ala Frank Miller and Elektra, without really delivering the heart. Eisner was a master of these tales, after returning to the Spirit. McKenzie is not. Decent try, though. Sparling is good, on the art, giving things a slight Eisner touch, with the kid selves of the characters.
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