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Post by rberman on Sept 26, 2019 17:16:01 GMT -5
Ditko just looks so old-fashioned next to Sienkiewicz. Somehow I like his work fine in the context of Silver Age Spidey or Doctor Strange, but somehow here it just seems so wrong.
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Post by badwolf on Sept 26, 2019 17:25:02 GMT -5
They need to bring the Crooked Man back! That hair!
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2019 17:33:51 GMT -5
Marvel Graphic Novel #16 The Aladdin Effect Creative Team: Jim Shooter-plot, David Michelinie-script, Greg LaRocque-pencils, Vince Coletta-inks, Lynn Cohen-assoc editor Coloring and lettering are not credited. Synopsis: In Wyoming, some people stop at a gas station to ask for directions to Venture Ridge; but the attendant has no idea, nor do maps show how to get there. In venture Ridge, Sheriif Joe Ember worries about his family and the lawlessness. the town is trapped behind a forcefield and all order has broken down.  They get home and burn a table leg for warmth. Holly Ann hides her scrapbook of superheroes because she has to study them, if she is to be a superhero. dad finds her reading it and burns it. There is talk of a council meeting and Holly Ann goes to sleep wishing that her superheroes would come and help them. the next day, her father takes her with him, but she spots a familiar woman. She sneaks away, only to run into predators and runs, only to be saved by Storm...  At first, Storm has no idea who she is, until Holly Ann fills in the details and she taps her powers. Holly Ann takes her to her father, in the middle of the meeting. Then, a spectal face says there is an immense power there and he wants it in 24 hours or Kcckkkkkkhhhhhh! Storm tries to break through the barrier and fails. Then She-Hulk turns up. Then, janet Van Dyne gets dragged to a fence, in her frillies and gets tied to it by thugs. She spits in ones face and he raises a chain, when they see Storm and janet remembers and shrinks, then blasts the a-hole. Tigra also turns up. She-Hulk tries battering throughthe field and runs into high tech goons and kicks their butts...  Shulkie gets blasted and chained up, then taken before The Timekeeper, who works for AIM. He lets his lady friend whoop on Shulkie, so CAT FIGHT! Holly Ann introduces pop to Storm, Wasp and Tigra. They offer to help in the fight, but are interrupted by some deputies, with Shulkie, who's in bad shape. Meanwhile, Wasp has figured out that the powersource is Holly Ann, who is a mutant, who brought them there by wishing it. Holly wakes up to mum blubbing, because dad has gone to surrender, so they can be free. Holly Ann goes to fight. She is accosted by goons, but gets away. Dad finds the council has no spine and Holly shows up. he tells everyone he intends to fight, to protect his daughter. The townspeople join him. The heroes join and fight the AIM mercs. the townspeople help and The Timekeeper gets his hands on Holly Ann. Dad kicks his butt and puts him under arrest. SHIELD turns up and dismantles the AIM facility and the super ladies leave, after Storm gives Sheriff Ember a card for prof Xavier. Thoughts: If this hadn't been a Shooter project, no way this would have been done as a graphic novel. It reads like a bad children's storybook and is filled with misogynistic violence against women, the stock in trade of Shooter and Michelinie, as witnessed in their Avengers work. It is filled with cliches stolen from things like High Noon, High Plains Drifter, the Prisoner, Mad Max and dozens of other, better stories from film, tv and literature. The art is pretty substandard. LaRocque turned into a decent artist, over time; but, he isn't anything special here and this is in no way ready for high end treatment. The female villain never even gets a name, to show how little she matters, except to be some kind a dominatrix who beats up She-Hulk. The scene of Janet Van Dyne tied to a fence, about to be beaten and raped foreshadows the murder of Matthew Sheppard. There is some pretty vile stuff, in the name of being edgy and "mature entertainment." This is a repressed teenager's fantasy of adult storytelling. My routine question of "Does this justify the format?" turns into did this even deserve to be published? My answer is a resounding "no." and I can only imagine the comics Journal's reaction to this. The only redeeming elements are Holly Ann, as an innocent child who believes in heroes, and her father, who is willing to fight to protect her. The heroines acre mostly an afterthought, acting as needed in the story. They are almost superfluous, except to show them fighting or being beaten and abused, or menaced. You can tell Stan had no hand in anything anymore, nor did anyone say "boo" to Shooter; or else, this would have never seen the light of day, in this form. Power Pack it ain't.
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Post by rberman on Sept 26, 2019 19:32:17 GMT -5
Marvel Graphic Novel #16 The Aladdin Effect I have... questions. Here's the story as best I can tell: In Venture Ridge, Wyoming, a couple named Mary and Joseph Ember (Biblical allusion!) have a super-child, Holly-Ann, whose thoughts can become reality. AIM becomes aware of her existence. They surround the town with a force field and send an Asian agent, The Timekeeper (but his powers are not time-related), along with his unnamed super-lover, to identify and procure the unknown super-person. AIM also removes all the roads to Venture Ridge and uses mind control so that no one in the surrounding communities is the least bit interested in this turn of events. Venture Ridge goes all "Lord of the Flies." Holly-Ann loves female super-heroes and fantasizes about joining them on adventures. She summons her favorite female heroes to aid her family, and eventually they help the citizens of Venture Ridge to throw off the yoke of AIM. Super-hero fan wish fulfillment accomplished! Yay!  First off, "Supervillains isolate a town" has been done (and done better) by Marvel several times recently. In X-Men #190 (Chris Claremont, 1985):  And in Fantastic Four #293 (John Byrne, 1986):  Probably numerous other examples as well, just in comic books. It seems like the original story nugget was an attempt by Jim Shooter (scribe of Dazzler) to improve female readership by telling a story about powerful female super-heroes. But the execution by Michelinie and LaRocque turned it into a distinctly masculine-oriented product with tons of cheesecake and sexual peril.  The story would have made more sense if it took place in an alternate universe with a comic book fan who could call her heroes into existence, sort of like in Mark Millar's 1985. But instead we have a young fan who lives in the Marvel Universe and loves the X-Men and knows that they live at Xavier's school. So much for keeping that little secret from the public!  Did LaRocque know that he had given Timekeeper the same costume as Moon Knight?  Why is Storm wearing her 1970s costume, not seen since it burned up in X-Men #172 (1983)? How old is this story, anyway? Graphic Novels often seemed to be inventory stories that had been sitting around the office for a while. But I have trouble imagining a story with this level of concentrated sexual assault and barely averted super-nudity being crafted in the early 80s.  Greg LaRocque left Marvel shortly after this came out, having left for what he described as "personal reasons." By December 1985, he was over at DC, drawing the Baxter Legion of Super-Heroes (starting with #17) for Paul Levitz. Was this story originally slated to run serially in Marvel's adult-oriented comics magazine Bizarre Adventures, for which LaRocque had already done work in 1982?  If any of the creators have talked about this work online, I sure can't find it. Everybody involved seems to want it buried. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2019 20:21:17 GMT -5
I don't have answers; but Tigra joined the Avengers in 1981, under Shooter, and She-Hulk joined in 1982, under Michelinie & Shooter (Michelinie wrote the story where she joins). Storm was still in that costume, then. So, I'd say you could probably track back to 1982ish.
I'm not so sure about Shooter having motivations to increase female readership. His track record on that wasn't the greatest, by himself. I can see maybe wanting to do a mini, or something, with these characters, three of which he was already writing, in Avengers, and Storm for an X-Men hook, to sell it. Who knows?
I am willing to bet this didn't sell very well; but, then, I don't think many of these sold like the first half dozen or so books.
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Post by rberman on Sept 27, 2019 7:22:33 GMT -5
I don't have answers; but Tigra joined the Avengers in 1981, under Shooter, and She-Hulk joined in 1982, under Michelinie & Shooter (Michelinie wrote the story where she joins). Storm was still in that costume, then. So, I'd say you could probably track back to 1982ish. I'm not so sure about Shooter having motivations to increase female readership. His track record on that wasn't the greatest, by himself. I can see maybe wanting to do a mini, or something, with these characters, three of which he was already writing, in Avengers, and Storm for an X-Men hook, to sell it. Who knows? I am willing to bet this didn't sell very well; but, then, I don't think many of these sold like the first half dozen or so books. I asked Greg LaRocque about the timing and the Storm costume. He said he worked intermittently on this graphic novel during his tenure at Marvel, between other assignments, so that it took a couple of years to complete, and that Shooter had specified the old Storm costume. |
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Post by MDG on Sept 27, 2019 8:49:15 GMT -5
Ditko just looks so old-fashioned next to Sienkiewicz. Somehow I like his work fine in the context of Silver Age Spidey or Doctor Strange, but somehow here it just seems so wrong. It looks like the story was done for a 4-color book--we know from Warren and his self-published work how effectively he worked in black and white, and this isn't it.
But even on the Sienkewicz story, I'm always bothered by Marvel's tendency in theory B&W books to feel they have to cover at least 85% of every page with some kind of wash, especially when it looks like it was done after the fact. (I don't remember if it was the Marvel mags or another company that, in the masthead, has someone listed for "Tones.") You rarely saw, like in Warren, crisp, B&W art without grayscales as done by people like Williamson, Torres, Crandall, or tones done as part of the art (Corben, Morrow depending on his techniques that issue, Sutton, Ditko) instead of laid on top of line art.
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 27, 2019 17:00:34 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Steve Ditko didn't plot that Shroud story, considering how many of his trademark tropes are incorporated: the character with mismatched costume and features and asymmetrical physique (see Odd Man, Shade), the male/female pair of criminal assistants with cute names "Cat" and "Mouse" (see Punch & July), the villain on a tirade against modern art (see Blue Beetle #5).
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 27, 2019 20:55:47 GMT -5
Looking back, it makes me shake my head that all of my favorite work from Jim Shooter was done by him BEFORE he graduated from high school.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 2, 2019 14:56:39 GMT -5
Marvel Preview #22 Finally, a comic about Merlin Olsen!  Wouldn't you know it; Merlin and his ladyfriend were all set to listen to some Barry White and all that entails, when knightus interruptus occurs! Creative Team: Doug Moench-writer, John Buscema-plot & pencils, Tom Palmer & John Tartaglione-inks, John Costanza-letters, Lynn Graeme-edits. The story was plotted by Buscema, though Moench ended up providing input, when Buscema felt he had meandered too much. This was basically a project launched to let Buscema do what he wanted to do and that was, essentially, Prince Valiant. Synopsis: Camelot.... Arthur is out hunting, when Lansel Lannister poisons him and he is gored by a boar. no, wait, that's Game of Thrones. Actually, Arthur is chasing after his falcon and finds a wounded, unknown knight. He sends Mordred back to the palace to bring Merlin. Mordred delegates to a paige, who goes to Merlin's chamber and gets an earful for disturbing his experiments. He grumbles down to where Arthur has the wounded man and Arthur implores him to heal the young, innocent knight. Merlin thinks Artie is a bit of a romantic sap; but, decides to play it safe and save the rube.  He gets better and appears before the Round Table and introduces himself as Beliar, son of Asmodiar, a lord of the Netherlands (somehow, I don't think he means that he is Dutch). He and his bro went out hunting and Beliar was taking aim with his bow, when his brother veered into his shot, to avoid branches and was killed. Pop never blamed him, but, Beliar did and took off to quest for justice. he was too young and lacked skill, but made up for it in determination (sounds familiar. He must be very Valiant). He ended up in England, where he was told by villagers that a monster was devouring maidens, out of season. He went to find it, assuming it was robbers, but, found evidence to the contrary. He finds a dragon and reads it its rights... The dragon resists arrest and Beliar is badly wounded. he is able to climb some rocks and create an avalanche that crushes the dragon. He finds his horse and makes it to where Arthur found him. The RT are impressed and sing Beliar's praises; but, Merlin isn't convinced. he has never come across a real dragon and thinks he will keep an eye on Beliar.  Beliar soon insinuates himself into the court, where everyone seems to take to him, even fellow paiges and squires. Everyone sees something of themselves in him. He goes snooping into Merlin's chambers and gets busted. he tries to play innocent but Merlin has his number. However, he is bound by the hospitality of the court to a guest; so, he doesn't turn Beliar into a toad. Later, after the business of the realm is concluded, the knights are having Happy Hour and Merlin does some conjuring tricks; but Beliar just gives Merlin shade. Merlin decides to teach him a lesson and blows David Copperfield out of the water...  Other knights get a stabby; but Beliar remains calm, seeing through the illusion. merlin is sure now and ends the trick. Later, at a banquet, beliar badmouths jousting and insinuates the knights are greedy and Sir Pellias takes umbrage and strikes him. That leads to a trial of arms. Pellias is better so Beliar summons help and Pellias freezes like a statue and gets dropped with one shot. Beliar feins shock and Artie buys into it, as does Guin. She takes away Beliar, comforting him in his distress and he basically implants the idea of getting out of dat-dress. The next day is the jousting and it's an elimination tournament, with Lancelot ending on top, until an unknown knight unseats him, before the whistle.  The mysterious knight whoops on Lancelot after unseating him until Artie stops it and orders him to unhelmet, revealing Beliar. Beliar says Lancelot has been taught humility and Art says get your hinder out of my sight. Guin tries to plead for Beliar and Art sticks to his guns. Later, he is awakened by news that Guen is gone and believes Beliar has abducted her (yeah right; ask Lancelot about that). Arthur tools up and he and Marlin set out to track down Beliar and Guinevere. They run into freak storms and avalanches and their horses balk at crossing a bridge (possibly because of Terry Gilliam asking questions; possibly not). The bridge collapses and the horses are gone. They run into a dragon and Merlin convinces Art it isn't real and they just walk right past it. They come to a spooky castle in rather non-English countryside and enter it, unmolested. there are demonic statues and they descend steps to lower realms. Eventually, they find Guin, after some kind of bondage play, chained to the wall, across a chasm. he's about to jump across when a wall of flame shoots up. Then, they meet Beliar's pop, who forces Art to fight Beliar.  Well, they start a Pier-6er and Beliar and Asmodiar cheat. Come on ref; are you blind? merlin isn't able to help and Art is in deep doo-doo. Beliar appears with Guin in hand and says Art is toast. Asmodiar seems to smell a rat and looks for Merlin and Beliar beheads him! He then reveals he is Merlin, under a spell. Beliar is dead, on the ledge, where Guin was chained. Asmodiar's head said he will return and Art and Merlin take Guin out and worry about "next time." Merlin starts to think it might be time to invest in a chain of muffler shops. Bill Mantlo writes a background to the "history" of Arthur and an intro to Arthurian Romance, while Steven Grant throws cold water on the idea of a real Arthur, showing that thereis no credible historical record and that the Saxons made steady inroads in Britain from the time of Arthur (alleged) onward, until they had conquered most of it. he then points out Arthur isn't even connected to the battle of Mt Badon until 2 centuries after the first history of it, which didn't mention him. in other words, Arthur was inserted into pseudo-history to gave bigger weight to tales about him, most of which are morality tales reflecting the era when recorded, then modified by later writers. Lancelot existed in separate myths and got put in there by French writers, who had a literary tradition of the cuckholded husband. Thoughts: bang up issue, though somewhat predictable. Buscema is channeling his inner Foster, as he recreates scenes, if not the style of Prince Valiant. The depiction of Merlin is a bit different, as he does work magic in the strips, though here he seems more illusionist and scientist, which reflects a modern trend of depicting a more realistic Arthurian world. That falls into a pit when the supernatural is introduced, via demonic prince Beliar. It doesn't take too huge a background in mythology to suspect that Asmodiar is a name of a demon (Asmodeus) or that Beliar might be related to Belial, a Hebrew term for wicked, which morphed into the name of a demon or Satan (which means adversary). I guess Buscema didn't want to draw 666 on Beliar's forehead for 50 pages. The story is a pretty good Arthurian riff, even if Arthur is a tool and everyone is is equally gullible. Guinevere is still depicted as having a wandering eye, so no Marion Zimmer Bradley here. The letters pages sing the praises of Dominic Fortune and ask for more, plus more Bizarre Adventures. funny enough, that is next issue, plus a promise of a Black Widow story, in #24, which proves incorrect, as usual.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 2, 2019 16:02:36 GMT -5
Marvel Graphic novel #17 Revenge of the Living Monolith The sequel that no one asked for! Creative Team: David Michelinie-writer, Marc Silvestri-pencils, Geof Isherwood-inks, with too many other hands involved to list and Jim Owsley (Christopher Priest) as editor. The inside cover credits read like a roster of Marvel employees, as there are 6 background inkers, 10 colorists, 6 assistant and consulting editors, 5 letterers, and 19 other people who assisted in some fashion. Dedication is to the late Morrie Kuramoto (long time Marvel production guy and inspiration for Kirby's Sonny Sumo), who thought it was a dumb idea. truer words were probably never said. Synopsis: A very caucasian Ahmet Abdol is bullied as a kid and obsessed with the pharaohs. he finds links between his family and the ancient kings, then, as an adult, advances theories that their miracles suggest they were mutants. he is laughed out of town and crashes his car, killing his wife. he manifests mutant powers, in grief and anger and is found by worshippers of the ancient pharaohs, who consider him a Living Pharaoh. Bo Hopkins turns up to give him his car coat and take his blood initiation.  The Pharaohs don't do so well against a rival gang (the X-Men) and Ahmet is defeated. He currently cools his heels in a jail, in Cairo, with inhibitor mittens.  They were built by the lowest bidder and Ahmet breaks free. His followers conveniently turn up. They take Hassan, the jailer and childhood bully along for some fun. Meanwhile, Fayah Sahid, an ex-follower is in New York and runs into a few former buddies, who are POd. She is rescued by the Human Torch, who takes her to speak to the rest of the FF, which has She-Hulk subbing for Ben Grimm. She tells them about Mad Ahmet and his plans to brainwash the world into worshipping him...  Ahmet is back home, in his under-temple digs (complete with Forbidden Planet underground scenery)  He taunts Hassan, who still calls him a wimp, and then addresses his Nuremberg Rally of followers. meanwhile, his agents attack the Baxter Building and Fayah turns on a device which allows them to isolate Red, Sue and Johnny and steal them away, leaving She Hulk behind. They end up in Egypt, while Fayah is about to make her escape and finds out that the windows aren't glass. She has a ticked off Shulkie to face. The rest of the FF fight to Egyptian goons. They did well, but are whammied by LP's ankh, wich is attuned to their cosmic radiation and gives them a mickey.  LP is lording it over the FF-1, in their sciencey chambers, when a peon interrupts with Fayah's dilemma. Turns out, Fayah is Salome, Ahmet's daughter. So, rescue is about to be ordered, when Hassan goads Ahmet into killing his own daughter. he goes to prove he isn't a wimp by activating the machines to siphon off the cosmic radiation, which turns him into the Living Monolith. He vows revenge and Lyle Langley gets the wrong idea, when he mis-hears the Monolith's name. She Hulk contacts the Avengers, about the FF-1's disappearance. Cap needs scientific advice and goes looking for Spidey (everyone else is in California and no one has heard of a telephone). Cap goes to see J Jonah about where to find Peter Parker, to help him find Spidey. JJJ sucks up to Cap, a real hero, then grumbles at Parker's name. Spidey and Cap meet and he comes to help. He isolates the energy signature and rigs up a doohickey, on the roof. He is about to test it on himself when Cap nominates She Hulk. meanwhile, an SST lands illegally at JFK and has Egyptian markings, which is odd, since only the UK, France and USSR had SST commercial aircraft, at the time. Old Monolith bursts out and its Godzilla time.  The Thrillsome Threesome dive into battle and NYC pays the price. Damage Control is put on standby. Spidey bugs out to track the FF and transports to Egypt and locates the FF-1; however, the chambers are boobytrapped and Cairo will be destroyed if the energy si[hon is turned off. Cap tries to talk Monolith down, when some meathead soldier fires a bazooka (apparently, Marvel's military reference consists of a bag of army men)...  The war mongering army types wantonly attack, regardless of civilians (unlike superheroes). Cap and She-Hulk take down Monolith with a huge piece of New York's power grid and Spidey rescues the FF-1. Monolith is still growing, though and the rest of the Avengers show up to try to shift him, followed by his acolytes, who attack. the heroes fight, a man sacrifices himself to save his daughter and Monolith is moved. Monolith tells Thor to swing his hammer, which is attached to adamantium cable, which is tied to Monolith and it hurls him into the sky. He eventually reaches orbit around another star and becomes a living planet. Thoughts: Morrie Kuramoto was right. This is unbelievably dumb; but, entertaining, in a 1970s Godzilla fashion, which is what it is. It all started as a joke in the Bullpen and turned into this hot mess of a story. which requires Ahmet Abdol to vacillate between cackling villain and idiot man-child. It's a pretty bad mix of characterizations and smash -em up plotting, with far too many cooks stirring the pot. This, at best, should have been a Marvel Fanfare two-parter, not a graphic novel; but, Michelinie was one of Shooter's boys so GN it gets. Silvestri's art is fine, though there is a MF level of quality, since he was still kind of green. There is a bit of a Michael Golden influence to things and Golden was working in the background, at Marvel, doing spot projects and a lot of promotional stuff; so, he could have easily been an influence on the visuals. The crossover between characters is basic Marvel Team-Up schtick, with the scientific Avengers conveniently unavailable (even by phone) so Spidey is called. The FF are quickly neutralized, so we can just have Spidey, Cap and Shulkie. Interesting that the FF's power allows Ahmet to tap into the cosmic radiation to transform, when it was Havok who always blocked him, in past. However, the X-Men were otherwise engaged, so no Havok. The depiction of Egypt is a ridiculous Western fantasy, drawn by someone with no idea what Cairo looks like and not willing to go to the library for reference. It is drawn like Connecticut and everyone is European, not Egyptian or Arabic. I guess Silvestri had never heard of Omar Shariff. Surprised Salome/Fayah wasn't a blond. We are pretty much past any real experimental or artistic intent with these graphic novels. Now, Marvel is just churning out product, in the format, rather than doe one-shot or minis. Once Dark Knight comes out, they will mostly dump this format in favor of "prestige" books. Ps. Marvel can bite me with their depiction of the military as mindless drones blowing up the place. They weren't alone in that but, they are pretty insulting about it. Somehow I suspect they weren't as vocal when Larry Hama was around.
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Post by rberman on Oct 2, 2019 16:22:14 GMT -5
I like that Silvestri art better than his later, over-cross-hatched efforts.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Oct 5, 2019 14:54:30 GMT -5
At least Ahmet Abdol got to have sex with a cute Guardian of the Galaxy before he died.
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 5, 2019 18:19:16 GMT -5
I much preferred Bill Sienkiewicz when he was "doing" Neal Adams to any of his later stuff. It's odd, but somehow at the time, I didn't quite realize he was doing Adams. Looking back, I tend to think he was doing Adams better than Adams was. Of course, Adams was always "doing" STAN DRAKE, and a 2nd-rate version of Stan Drake at that. These days, I'd rather have Alan Davis-- or Ivan Reis. That said... I'm probably the ONLY one who feels this way, but as much as I enjoyed Sienkiewicz when he was doing MOON KNIGHT (and nobody else since has seemed half as good as he was), for much of his run (and for all of the period before he got on the character), I kept wishing DON PERLIN had stayed on him. It was Don's version of MK I fell in love with, and it was totally baffling to me that he never drew stories with MK (that I know of) after those first 4 he did, between WEREWOLF BY NIGHT and MARVEL SPOTLIGHT.  |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Oct 7, 2019 11:43:09 GMT -5
I much preferred Bill Sienkiewicz when he was "doing" Neal Adams to any of his later stuff. It's odd, but somehow at the time, I didn't quite realize he was doing Adams. Looking back, I tend to think he was doing Adams better than Adams was. Of course, Adams was always "doing" STAN DRAKE, and a 2nd-rate version of Stan Drake at that.
I'm kind of ... moderate? I was never much interested in his refried Adams, and loved his New Mutants work (and consider Elektra: Assassin a high-water mark). But a lot of his material, especially lately, just strikes me as kind of ugly. I like him best when he has a balance between 'pretty' art and broad caricature.
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