shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2020 8:25:40 GMT -5
He also had a tendency to ignore what previous writers had done and plow on ahead, like on Defenders, where he took over the book, pretty much ignored everything Gerber had done, then was gone in a couple of issues (and out the door, at Marvel). I kind of see that here. On this title, Conway was very careful about picking up on Len Wein's continuity. Even in this issue, Lucius Fox (a Len Wein character) is prominently featured. Yes. I've argued extensively in this thread that Paul Levitz had a very heavy hand in managing this office. He may have done so in a likeable way so that no one was annoyed and publicly complained, but you can smell his agenda, regardless of who is writing, and he made it clear in the letter columns soon after he took office that Robin needed to stay young and immature to serve as a contrast to Batman. While he never directly said so, it's implict that he felt the same about Batgirl, even going so far as to make her lose her congressional seat, lose her memory of Batman and Robin's identities, nearly get killed and nearly quit, all so that it would be clear to the readers that she wasn't as in command as Batman. Thus, whereas Marv Wolfman wanted to evolve Dick Grayson, and Elliot S. Maggin had made Babs Gordon a true powerhouse all her own, Levitz was actively working to prevent them from attaining "colleague" status.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 21, 2020 12:17:21 GMT -5
Detective Comics #504 (July 1981) For reasons unknown, Cary Burkett's Batgirl is missing for the second issue in a row (the third time in five months), only to be replaced with an Untold Legend of Gotham City. This is not the last time we will see this happen to the Batgirl feature. Tales of Gotham City: "A Day In The Life Of A Cop" Script: Paul Kupperberg Pencils: José Delbo Inks: Joe Giella Colors: Carl Gafford Letters: Pierre Bernard Jr. Grade: A Disappointed as I am to not get a Batgirl story again this month, one has to admit that the quality of these Tales of Gotham City stories certainly makes up for it, especially one written by Paul Kupperberg. It's a Commissioner Gordon story, or (perhaps more accurately) it's the story of a corrupt cop Gordon has to take down -- a cop who had every reason to be one of the good ones but chose a dark path anyway. Kupperberg's writing feels like the authentic thoughts and feelings of a career police officer, and the kid Gordon has to take down feels every bit as green, foolish, and selfish as real people I've known. It all feels so authentic. For what it's worth, this will be Paul Levitz's final issue as editor: Dick Giordano will take over for the next fifteen months, followed by Len Wein, who had little respect for Batgirl (as anyone following this thread already knows) and will immediately bury the feature.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Dec 21, 2020 16:07:42 GMT -5
Tales of Gotham City: "The Pursuit of Joy" Script: Mike W. Barr Pencils: Dan Spiegle Inks: Dan Spiegle Colors: Tatjana Wood Letters: Ben Oda Grade: A Disappointed as I am to not get a Batgirl story again this month, one has to admit that the quality of these Tales of Gotham City stories certainly makes up for it, especially one written by Paul Kupperberg. The title and credits seem to have crept in from #507.
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Post by shaxper on Dec 21, 2020 20:51:48 GMT -5
Tales of Gotham City: "The Pursuit of Joy" Script: Mike W. Barr Pencils: Dan Spiegle Inks: Dan Spiegle Colors: Tatjana Wood Letters: Ben Oda Grade: A Disappointed as I am to not get a Batgirl story again this month, one has to admit that the quality of these Tales of Gotham City stories certainly makes up for it, especially one written by Paul Kupperberg. The title and credits seem to have crept in from #507. Wow. I'm actually a little impressed I managed to scew up that royaly. Thanks for catching it!
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2020 10:49:44 GMT -5
Batman #338 (August 1981) Robin: "Murder on the Midway, Part Two: Killer Under the Big Top!" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Don Newton Inks: Steve Mitchell Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Pierre Bernard Jr. Grade: C When you spend two issues slowly developing a murder mystery, only to have Robin find the gun and then suddenly cut to this excessively cramped epilogue, resolving pages worth of information in three panels: it's safe to assume Gerry Conway isn't giving the Robin feature much consideration right now. Heck, the A feature for this issue, featuring the origin of The Sportsmaster, is easily one of Conway's worst stories in this run. Could be that the demands of writing Batman, Detective Comics, World's Finest Comics, AND the Robin backup feature all at the same time each month were beginning to wear down on him. Whatever the case, it's clear that expecting Conway to carefully consider Robin's dual lives as solo adventurer and leader of the New Teen Titans here is an exercise in disappointment. Sure enough, Dick is still presented as if being a solo hero and working with Hill's Circus are the only things going on in his life right now: Again, Dick has been leading the New Teen Titans for nine months now, and it's never once been mentioned in any of the Batman titles yet: Batman (even while Wolfman was writing it!), 'Tec, World's Finest, Brave and the Bold, and even DC Comics Presents--there's just no way it's sheer carelessness. The omission is too omnipresent. Thus, it continues to feel like there's some kind of a pissing match happening between these offices. Hopefully the arrival of Dick Giordano as editor this month will put an end to that. Anyway, Conway continues to present a less capable, less sure of himself Dick Grayson who contrasts oddly with the increasingly confident and capable leader of The New Teen Titans. He can't even handle a simple whodunnit, explaining as much to every suspect he meets: And he seems to nearly get himself killed once per issue: It feels like Conway is writing more of a cliche detective from a B-noir film as opposed to any kind of hero here: Pick up your damn trash, Robin.and it still bothers me how both Dick and Babs can continually relocate around the country and not arouse suspicion when their crime-fighting alter egos immediately follow suit. In this case, the very first person Robin encounters in costume questions his being there: How does no one--especially no one in Batman's rogues gallery--connect the dots? As much as Conway is not giving this feature much thought at all, it's still more interesting than Dick's Hudson University adventures. I just wish it could somehow resolve with Dick's adventures with the Titans. Somehow, Dick is travelling with Hill's circus WHILE living at Titans' Tower at this point, and yet Conway won't even acknowledge the existence of the New Teen Titans. Wolfman went out of his way to acknowledge that Dick was now working at Hill's circus two months back in New Teen Titans #8, but Conway isn't reciprocating in kind.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 22, 2020 10:59:23 GMT -5
To be fair...Conway probably didn't care. He's admitted that when he was overworked he hacked out stories with virtually no thought at all. Stuff he cared about got some care. Everything else just got words on paper.
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2020 11:01:18 GMT -5
To be fair...Conway probably didn't care. He's admitted that when he was overworked he hacked out stories with virtually no thought at all. Stuff he cared about got some care. Everything else just got words on paper. That definitely fits what we see here. Conway will go on to write some truly Killer stuff for the Batman and 'Tec titles, but I don't think he ever takes a particular interest in writing Dick's solo adventures.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 22, 2020 11:04:35 GMT -5
To be fair...Conway probably didn't care. He's admitted that when he was overworked he hacked out stories with virtually no thought at all. Stuff he cared about got some care. Everything else just got words on paper. That definitely fits what we see here. Conway will go on to write some truly Killer stuff for the Batman and 'Tec titles, but I don't think he ever takes a particular interest in writing Dick's solo adventures. I haven't looked at this stuff from this era in eons. But it's super apparent when he was working for DC in the mid-70s. Dude had a contract for an insane number of pages a month (I can't put my eyes on the number, but I'll see if I can find it) and he just ground out stories with little to no thought.
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2020 11:14:29 GMT -5
I haven't looked at this stuff from this era in eons. But it's super apparent when he was working for DC in the mid-70s. Dude had a contract for an insane number of pages a month (I can't put my eyes on the number, but I'll see if I can find it) and he just ground out stories with little to no thought. I mean, I think that was the nature of the beast. Doug Moench said pretty much the same about his time at Marvel: "I was such a recluse. I was writing so much. Sometimes like 18 hours a day. It was just gushing out. I didn't really have time to be aware of it. I didn't even read everything I wrote." (Source: Cooke, Jon. "Doug Moench's Memories." Comic Book Artist Collection. Vol. 3. Raleigh: Twomorrows, 2005. 22-36. Print.) The difference being that Moench wrote some of his most iconic stuff at that point and turned in very little crap. We often judge writers by the quality of their output alone, but perhaps it's more fair to consider the quality of their output with respect to the quantity of their output. Anyway, I still really respect Conway's writing. I'll readily admit I couldn't do better, especially with that magnitude of demand placed upon me.
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2020 1:40:33 GMT -5
Detective Comics #505 (August 1981) Batgirl: "Hunt for a Hunchback Killer" Script: Cary Burkett Pencils: José Delbo Inks: Joe Giella Colors: Carl Gafford Letters: John Costanza Grade: D We've waited three issues for the next installment in Cary Burkett's Batgirl, and now that the feature has returned, Burkett wastes no time in delivering this: Oh boy. And I thought Dr. Voodoo was corny. Apparently, Burkett simply cannot write costumed villains. Perhaps worse yet, after spending issue upon issue watching Babs build herself back up to be a better crime fighter than she ever was before: both images from Detective Comics #502, the last Burkett Batgirl story prior to this one.she is inexplicably amateur in this one, completely underestimating the speed and strength of the villain she'd spent a week studying/watching, and when she learns from this and goes back for round two, she utterly fumbles that attempt too: Let's be clear -- this guy does not have super powers, and it's unlikely anyone that incapable of rational thought spends much time training either. Even the soap opera aspect of this feature is starting to wear thin. Last time around, Babs was on the verge of a nervous breakdown because her department was dangerously behind on a project: Again, Detective Comics #502and yet, this issue her only concern at work is why one of her colleagues doesn't like her: These supporting characters are wearing thin too. Richard is falling for her, and Bob hates her. It's gone nowhere in all the time since the two characters were introduced. Neither the characters nor their relationships with Babs have grown any more complex. It's just tedious now. Whereas I have adored this run all along, this single issue is so utterly bad that I'm suddenly losing faith in Burkett and the future of this feature. Let's hope next issue finds its footing again. Important Details:Babs reveals her identity to Jeff Cotton, the mechanic who stores and maintains her batcycle:
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2020 7:27:24 GMT -5
Batman #339 (September 1981) Robin: "Yeserday's Heroes!" (sic) Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Bruce Patterson Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: John Costanza Grade: B+ If Conway's last Robin story was a rush job that didn't seem to get much of his care nor attention, he certainly tries to make up for it here with a deep character study, almost entirely devoid of obligatory conflict. Dick reflects upon his past while performing for Hill's circus. It's a unique take on Dick that places more emphasis on his parents' influence than we've seen before: but also draws a sharp contrast between a maturing Robin and Batman in a way that aligns neatly with what Wolfman and Perez are doing over in the pages of New Teen Titans. And yet, still no mention of the Titans anywhere in this story. Sure enough, Dick spends the first two pages reflecting on his current situation and recent past--two pages discussing Batman, Hudson University, and his career as Robin--and not one reference to leading a superhero team, even nine months after New Teen Titans #1 hit stands: Once more, this doesn't seem to be a careless omission. There appears to be an explicit edict not to reference the Titans in the Batman titles. Whether new editor Dick Giordano will relax that remains to be seen.
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Post by Dr Johnny Fever on Dec 24, 2020 11:37:55 GMT -5
* Note: I should have reviewed this issue before Batman #337 and not after. Please excuse the error. That story has Dick rejoin the circus, whereas he is still residing in the Wayne Foundation building here.
Detective Comics #503 (June 1981) "The 6 Days of the Scarecrow" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Don Newton Inks: Dan Adkins Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Grade: D It's interesting how experience can influence opinion. To me this story has always been "Grade: A" because I bought it in a vacuum. I was the typical farm kid with sporadic comic purchasing options, so when I bought it (who could refuse that cover!) I had no clue about 90% of the continuity that came before it. For example... robot doubles and robot flying owls? I didn't know Scarecrow didn't already have an established history with those things. Robin knows who Babs is while she has no idea who he is? I didn't know that and read the expression on her face as meaning "this must be really serious if Dick has come personally to tell me". Now that I'm following this excellent thread I can totally see and agree with your points. Comic reading was certainly different for kids that could follow a title monthly than kids that only got random titles.
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Post by shaxper on Dec 24, 2020 11:58:10 GMT -5
It's interesting how experience can influence opinion. To me this story has always been "Grade: A" because I bought it in a vacuum. I was the typical farm kid with sporadic comic purchasing options, so when I bought it (who could refuse that cover!) I had no clue about 90% of the continuity that came before it. For example... robot doubles and robot flying owls? I didn't know Scarecrow didn't already have an established history with those things. Robin knows who Babs is while she has no idea who he is? I didn't know that and read the expression on her face as meaning "this must be really serious if Dick has come personally to tell me". Now that I'm following this excellent thread I can totally see and agree with your points. Comic reading was certainly different for kids that could follow a title monthly than kids that only got random titles. While I'm honored, I feel a little bad taking away your rose-colored glasses. Most of the time, reading and analyzing in-depth like this leads me to enjoy the stories more. Occasionally, it does this though. I grew up a few years after you, I suppose, getting into comics in 1989. I distinctly recall looking at all those three digit-numbered books and assuming it meant hundreds of issues of continuous and meticulously adhered to continuity. I had no idea that there'd been reboots, rebrandings, and folks winging it for most of those issues.
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Post by Dr Johnny Fever on Dec 24, 2020 12:03:06 GMT -5
It's interesting how experience can influence opinion. To me this story has always been "Grade: A" because I bought it in a vacuum. I was the typical farm kid with sporadic comic purchasing options, so when I bought it (who could refuse that cover!) I had no clue about 90% of the continuity that came before it. For example... robot doubles and robot flying owls? I didn't know Scarecrow didn't already have an established history with those things. Robin knows who Babs is while she has no idea who he is? I didn't know that and read the expression on her face as meaning "this must be really serious if Dick has come personally to tell me". Now that I'm following this excellent thread I can totally see and agree with your points. Comic reading was certainly different for kids that could follow a title monthly than kids that only got random titles. While I'm honored, I feel a little bad taking away your rose-colored glasses. Don't feel bad. I found this forum because of your Batman posts (I was looking for a Batman/Detective reading order) and you've been a real help to me and my comic understanding Merry Christmas!
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Post by shaxper on Dec 24, 2020 12:07:59 GMT -5
While I'm honored, I feel a little bad taking away your rose-colored glasses. Don't feel bad. I found this forum because of your Batman posts (I was looking for a Batman/Detective reading order) and you've been a real help to me and my comic understanding Merry Christmas! I so appreciate the encouragement! And a Merry Christmas to you as well!
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