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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2019 8:38:19 GMT -5
There was a nice moment with Gar & Vic on p. 6. I thought Titans' escape & faking of the bomb was highly dubious. Sort of Silver age stuff there. The Titans' fight with Terminator's soldiers was only one panel?! Also, I agree that Terminator's hatred of the Titans seems forced. Also, while he's a great character, I find it a stretch that on guy with virtually no superpowers can handle six powerful superheroes (plus Robin). Overall, I thought the writing in this one was decent, and the art was, or course, excellent.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2019 12:54:59 GMT -5
The H.I.V.E. is a perfect group for the Titans to contend with and this is one of better ones because it loaded with action, drama, and excitement and the script done by Wolfman was excellent. I would give this issue an A minus. I think I'd give it a B plus. A for the art and B for the writing. |
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 15, 2019 15:20:05 GMT -5
It's been my observation over the decades that generally, George Perez "contributed" so much to stories when he worked "Marvel Method" that he tended to make most writers he worked with look like they knew what they were doing.
The exception was Steve Englehart.... who DID. Which is why it still bugs me whenever I think about how Gerry Conway "inspired" Englehart to QUIT Marvel in the mid-70s...
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2019 15:54:13 GMT -5
shaxperA humble request going forward: I LOVE the enthusiasm and participation in this discussion, but I'd really appreciate it we could keep the talk at least marginally related to my reviews...maybe even just quote me when taking something I've said into a tangential discussion. My review of issue #9 got positively buried in all the back and forth about race and Cyborg's love life. I'm not sure many of you even saw it. I spend a lot of time and put a lot of thought into these, so it would mean a lot to me that they not fall to the back burner. Thanks.
Sorry for my part in it. I felt that the subjects we went on about were very connected to where the series went and maybe where it didn't and why. But also, the events in #9 were secondary to the characterization that Wolfman was building with the new Titan members. I didn't remember the events of the issue after all these years, but I did remember that they were potentially leading up to a romantic situation between Vic and Sarah. But, as you wish. Navigating the social norms of online discussion forums is tricky business. The thread doesn't really belong to me; it belongs to the community. That being said, my reviews were positively getting buried to the point that almost no one saw the last one, and that really discouraged me. At least you were adding new information to the discussion. Some folks just keep rehashing the same argument again and again that isn't particularly specific to anything I had added with my most recent review, and take up a lot of space doing so. That isn't you. So no need for an apology, my good man. Maybe Cyborg and Sarah just need their own thread, or something. |
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2019 15:56:12 GMT -5
Also, I agree that Terminator's hatred of the Titans seems forced. Also, while he's a great character, I find it a stretch that on guy with virtually no superpowers can handle six powerful superheroes (plus Robin). No powers? super enhanced reflexes, lighting-quick thinking, and years and years of training that would rival Bruce Wayne's, plus no qualms about going for the throat. As none of the Titans are bullet-proof, that makes him a pretty dangerous villain in my opinion. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 15, 2019 16:32:38 GMT -5
Doom Patrol reprints were pretty scarce and the Showcase issue with the New Doom Patrol didn't set sales on fire. I had heard of the DP, in a couple of older Titans comics (DC Super Stars, where they reprinted 2 or 3 stories and had character references); but, didn't see a DP story, outside of a reference like this, until nearly the 90s. There was a digest reprint of some of the stories; but, I never came across that one. Titans and Secret Origins were where I was introduced to the original Dp, before the revived series. I also missed the NTT issues where they go hunting for the Brotherhood of Evil. Where I grew up (Los Angeles), comic stores selling back issues usually had Doom Patrol (and My Greatest Adventure) issues (in the 70s and 80s--usually at a cheaper price, which was the way I was able to get them), but even being as available as they were, Wolfman was not only assuming the readers may not be long-timers, but the group had not achieved that status of a great concept from the past, which I always found odd, since I felt they were one of the top 3 superhero groups created in the 1960s. They always deserved better, and having their past threaded through the new, hot book (TNTT, obviously) was a great way to catapult them to then-current reader awareness. Well outside of Chicago, we didn't have any comic stores in my neck of the woods (and chicago was about 2-300 miles away); so, if it wasn't available on the newsstand or in a bookstore, we didn't see it. First comic shop I set foot in was in 1985, at the Univ. of Illinois, while I was going to school there; and, it wasn't that old of a store. Outside of the ads in comic books for back issue dealers, garage sales were about the only place you encountered old comics. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2019 18:24:02 GMT -5
Also, I agree that Terminator's hatred of the Titans seems forced. Also, while he's a great character, I find it a stretch that on guy with virtually no superpowers can handle six powerful superheroes (plus Robin). No powers? super enhanced reflexes, lighting-quick thinking, and years and years of training that would rival Bruce Wayne's, plus no qualms about going for the throat. As none of the Titans are bullet-proof, that makes him a pretty dangerous villain in my opinion. Compared to most of the Titans, let alone ALL of them together, that's not much. He uses 90% of his brain, or whatever it is, and that's his power. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but he seems more like a Batman type of opponent. In fact, in some ways he's sort of a mercenary Batman, with the penthouse and butler, though obviously he's got some physical and mental enhancements. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 15, 2019 19:01:35 GMT -5
No powers? super enhanced reflexes, lighting-quick thinking, and years and years of training that would rival Bruce Wayne's, plus no qualms about going for the throat. As none of the Titans are bullet-proof, that makes him a pretty dangerous villain in my opinion. He uses 90% of his brain, or whatever it is, and that's his power. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but he seems more like a Batman type of opponent. In fact, in some ways he's sort of a mercenary Batman, with the penthouse and butler, though obviously he's got some physical and mental enhancements. Well, the Punisher was paid to kill Spider-Man ( Amazing Spider-Man #129), and he was "just" an experienced, non-enhanced assassin, yet he proved to be a real threat to the very superpowered Spider-Man. Its the Batman principle at work: Batman is a regular human, but his intellect, training and skills allow him to face otherworldly threats as a JLA member, when on paper, he should end up...dead. The same applies to the Terminator. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 16, 2019 7:28:40 GMT -5
Compared to most of the Titans, let alone ALL of them together, that's not much. He uses 90% of his brain, or whatever it is, and that's his power. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but he seems more like a Batman type of opponent. In fact, in some ways he's sort of a mercenary Batman, with the penthouse and butler, though obviously he's got some physical and mental enhancements. Well, the Punisher was paid to kill Spider-Man ( Amazing Spider-Man #129), and he was "just" an experienced, non-enhanced assassin, yet he proved to be a real threat to the very superpowered Spider-Man. Its the Batman principle at work: Batman is a regular human, but his intellect, training and skills allow him to face otherworldly threats as a JLA member, when on paper, he should end up...dead. The same applies to the Terminator. I'd say it's the comic book principle at work. Anybody can be a challenge for anybody, as the story requires, and as the writer and artist are good enough to make it look plausible. They mostly do so with Terminator on the Titans, by the way, but I still can't buy him defeating Kid Flash, which I believe is why Wolfman wrote him out - as Wolfman himself said, written properly he's almost undefeatable. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 16, 2019 12:32:04 GMT -5
Well, the Punisher was paid to kill Spider-Man ( Amazing Spider-Man #129), and he was "just" an experienced, non-enhanced assassin, yet he proved to be a real threat to the very superpowered Spider-Man. Its the Batman principle at work: Batman is a regular human, but his intellect, training and skills allow him to face otherworldly threats as a JLA member, when on paper, he should end up...dead. The same applies to the Terminator. I'd say it's the comic book principle at work. Anybody can be a challenge for anybody, as the story requires, and as the writer and artist are good enough to make it look plausible. They mostly do so with Terminator on the Titans, by the way, but I still can't buy him defeating Kid Flash, which I believe is why Wolfman wrote him out - as Wolfman himself said, written properly he's almost undefeatable. I think with enough time, Terminator would find some way of either subduing or outright defeating Kid Flash. The junior speedster may be fast, but that does not include outthinking all of his enemies, and for men like the Terminator and Batman, that is--arguably--their greatest, can't lose weapon. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 16, 2019 16:16:34 GMT -5
I'd say it's the comic book principle at work. Anybody can be a challenge for anybody, as the story requires, and as the writer and artist are good enough to make it look plausible. They mostly do so with Terminator on the Titans, by the way, but I still can't buy him defeating Kid Flash, which I believe is why Wolfman wrote him out - as Wolfman himself said, written properly he's almost undefeatable. I think with enough time, Terminator would find some way of either subduing or outright defeating Kid Flash. The junior speedster may be fast, but that does not include outthinking all of his enemies, and for men like the Terminator and Batman, that is--arguably--their greatest, can't lose weapon. Yes, but time is the one thing you don't have when fighting someone who moves faster than the speed of light. After this conversation, I'd really love to see a Batman-Terminator battle. Has that ever happened? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 16, 2019 16:44:31 GMT -5
Batman and Deathstroke fought in Deathstrokes book in a 2 parter. Batman got his clock cleaned.
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Post by Duragizer on Jun 16, 2019 16:52:30 GMT -5
Batman and Deathstroke fought in Deathstrokes book in a 2 parter. Batman got his clock cleaned. But ... but ... prep time. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 16, 2019 16:54:33 GMT -5
I finally got around to reading NTT 10, I would give it a B+. Deathstroke was awesome and was totally in charge of all the events in this book. My only problem is that his kidnapping of Sarah Sims is done and forgotten after this book. Wouldn’t she be in constant danger from him here on in ? The battle between Starfire and Deathstroke was great and really shows Perez at his best and even the outcomes of his contests with the other Titans make sense because he is much smarter than them with maybe the exception of Robin. His acknowledgement of how he was conned into working for the HIVE fixed the error of issue #2. He let them think he was still going to honor his sons contract in order to settle the score with them. Nice. Someone mentioned Tanghals inks, yeah he was the weak link of the team. Nice cliffhanger , and I thought maybe they would kill Changeling after so short a time. After all , they did it with Thunderbird in the New X-men.
Great issue.
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 16, 2019 18:06:39 GMT -5
My only problem is that his kidnapping of Sarah Sims is done and forgotten after this book. Wouldn’t she be in constant danger from him here on in ? Good question. I did, and yeah, his inking is just so thin and not particularly supportive, or bringing anything out for an artist like Perez. I think Changeling--being the "kid" of the group and comic relief--was likely protected from the start. Receive a beating? Yep. Betrayed & have his heart broken? Yes, but face the Grim Reaper? Nah. |
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