shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2019 11:42:30 GMT -5
DC Comics Presents #26 (October 1980)  "Where Nightmares Begin!" Script: Marv Wolfman Pencils: George Pérez Inks: Dick Giordano Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Editing: Len Wein Grade: A What an interesting problem this fourteen page preview feature must have presented for Wolfman. On the one hand, it's the team's very first appearance. On the other, they can't do anything too important here because New Teen Titans #1 needs to be accessible to folks who didn't see this preview. So Wolfman pens a story in which the Titans both do and don't meet for the first time, and thus, by the time of NTT #1, Robin can say something to the effect of, "I saw this all in a dream!" and move on with the story, never leaving the new readers to feel they'd missed out on something important. But Wolfman also accomplishes far more with this concept. Usually, when a new team is introduced, it takes time for the team to evolve, characters to develop interpersonal relationships and such, but by having Robin flash-forward to when the team is already established, Wolfman can spell out a vision for the team's future, selling us on the finished product before the characters have even had a chance to meet for the first time.  Changeling is the team clown ( a surprising change from his previous characterization prior to Wolfman), Cyborg jokingly hates Changeling, Kid Flash is hopelessly in love with Raven, Cyborg mistrusts her. So many of the key relationships we came to know in the New Teen Titans were already spelled out in this first outing. Really, all that's missing is Dick and Kory's relationship. Wonder Girl may be the least utilized/developed personality at this stage, but Wolfman will more than make up for that further down the line. We also get an opportunity to see the team's powers in action. Everyone gets their moments to use their abilities for the sake of the reader. Of these, Raven and her soul self take center stage. She's certainly the most compelling character concept of the bunch, especially as her soul self is both a power and a weakness in one. But I would argue the Cyborg concept is just as innovative at this early stage. Having a walking techno-hero on the team is a sharp contrast to anything we were seeing from The X-Men at this point, and that machine man being a big, strong powerhouse of rage as opposed to an intellectual also makes for an unexpected choice. Regrettably, I feel like this concept gets under-used throughout the early years of the series, Cyborg repeatedly using all the technology at his disposal to create white sound blasts, and little else.  Finally, it's impressive that Wolfman manages to sneak a lot of backstory into this fourteen page preview. We learn nothing of Raven or Starfire yet, but we get an impressive amount about Cyborg:  By the way, how bad of a scientist is Dr. Stone that, in the span of fourteen pages, we learn he has created an energy reactor that can obliterate the city, opened a gateway to another dimension that can annihilate all human kind, and he ruined his son's life with technology? Beat that rap, evil villains. And Robin gets some important background information here, too. Admittedly, I've lapsed in my study of Batman Family, as well as Robin's appearances in the Batman titles between the disbanding of the original Teen Titans and now, but is this the first time we are told that Robin has dropped out of college, and that it has created a rift between him and Bruce?  So, in what could have been either a disposable fourteen page sneak-peak or a meaningful first outing that would totally alienate anyone beginning with NTT #1, Wolfman gives us a wealth of content to sell us on the new team while also setting it up so that you'll feel you missed nothing if you didn't start here.  Important Details:- 1st appearance of The New Teen Titans - 1st appearance of Raven - 1st appearance and partial origin of Cyborg - 1st appearance of Starfire - 1st appearance of Dr. Stone (Cyborg's father) - 1st appearance of Titans Tower - Beast Boy changes his name to The Changeling (why?) Minor Details:- Talk about a come-back. Wolfman returns to save the franchise he was booted from with his former co-writer as his editor and his former editor inking the whole thing! - Even though it wasn't a stand-alone comic, the "cover" boasts an "Approved by the Comics Code Authority" symbol. - Perez gives us some truly awe-inspiring visions, especially in those first glimpses of Titans' Tower, but do I blame this face on him or on Giordano?  - So why DC Comics Presents? I love the old preview inserts DC was doing at this time, but I could never understand the logic of which previews got placed in which comics. Was the New Teen Titans preview placed here because DC had reason to suspect these readers would especially enjoy the feature, was it an effort to boost sales of DC Comics Presents, or was it something else entirely? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 12:02:26 GMT -5
Always loved seeing inside their tower, especially the poster style pictures of them all that lined the wall of their meeting room--and their symbols on their chairs! a dynamic looking group for sure. My minor gripe is Perez's Wonder Girl. I thought the more steamlined stars in yellow were boring looking and would have popped more with white stars wrapped around. Of course her costume and star pattern started varying in the early 70s. When I was little and first reading this, I thought Starfire looked like a lion, Cyborg a robot, and Raven a witch. Changeling was so goofy and probably my least favorite. That preview had me sold on the team though and was read and re-read until DC Comics Presents #26 fell apart! And yeah, Robin's crooked eyes bothered me even at 8 years old! Looking back at this, I actually think I would have preferred Giordano's inks!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2019 13:57:25 GMT -5
You know, right off the bat it occurs to me that one of the many massive differences between Teen Titans and New Teen Titans is the amount of planning. Haney was just making things up each month with no consideration of the bigger picture, and Cardy (who I adore)'s art reflected that, for example, when we got our first glimpses of the Titans Clubhouse:  You could just tell there was no real consideration of what was in that HQ beyond what could be seen in-panel. Meanwhile, Wolfman and Perez have already mapped out interpersonal relationships and how they are going to evolve over the next year, and Perez offers us a very different depiction of Titans Tower that correlates with this approach. You can tell Perez has laid out the entire lair and knows exactly what's off to the sides of this panel. |
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Post by rberman on Mar 29, 2019 14:33:34 GMT -5
I have to say that the Baxter edition of New Teen titans was such a scam. They made you pay more for different paper and then canceled the cheaper one. They digit with LOSH too , but I don't think it was as popular. My understanding was that they planned to keep both versions going, assuming that they were reaching different markets, but discovered that it wasn't paying off, so they canceled the less successful one. |
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Post by rberman on Mar 29, 2019 15:03:55 GMT -5
Marv Wolfman's foreword to the 1998 archive edition explains how he developed the personalities of the Titans along what he called two triangles. Raven (introverted, ultra-pacifist) and Starfire (uninhibited, warrior princess) had Wonder Girl (friendly but level-headed, an Amazonian desiring peace but ready to fight) in between. Changeling (impulsive, insecure) and Cyborg (logical but bitter) had Robin (the calm statesman) in between. They sound less like triangles than three points on a spectrum in each case, but anyway the point was to provide clear opportunities for intra-team conflict while working toward shared goals. This is very much a page from the X-Men book.
Wolfman also gave several characters a shared trait: Daddy issues "born of tragedy... Starfire was an alien princess whose weak-willed father Myand'r (meander) sold her into slavery... Raven's mother was an Earth woman raped by an interdimensional demon. In order to save Vic Stone's life, his father had to turn his son into a living cyborg... The theme for the Titans began and remained 'young versus old.' Son and daughter versus father and mother. These universal conflicts, understood by all teens as they grow up and separate from their parents, could be revisited time and again." (from the 1988 foreword)
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Post by rberman on Mar 29, 2019 15:34:49 GMT -5
Wolfman's introduction to the 2017 Titans omnibus explains what he set out to accomplish in the free teaser story:
Wolfman also reports that he and Perez worked Marvel-style. Wolfman wrote general descriptions of what was to happen on each page, and Perez determined layouts and snapshots of action, to which Wolfman married dialogue.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 29, 2019 15:55:48 GMT -5
I bought this one off the newsstand. Which probably seems weird, given my intense dislike of Superman. But DCCP had the "Whatever Happened To..." back-up. And I was an Earth-2 completest at the time. The inserts were a bit of a draw. More comics for the same amount of money. I know that I liked this one well enough that I bought NTT #1 when it came out. I was 12 and actually searching out certain issues as opposed to just buying what caught my eye on the newsstand was fairly new to me.
Will try to reread and give some more pointed thoughts later on.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 29, 2019 16:26:58 GMT -5
Marv Wolfman's foreword to the 1998 archive edition explains how he developed the personalities of the Titans along what he called two triangles. Raven (introverted, ultra-pacifist) and Starfire (uninhibited, warrior princess) had Wonder Girl (friendly but level-headed, an Amazonian desiring peace but ready to fight) in between. Changeling (impulsive, insecure) and Cyborg (logical but bitter) had Robin (the calm statesman) in between. They sound less like triangles than three points on a spectrum in each case, but anyway the point was to provide clear opportunities for intra-team conflict while working toward shared goals. This is very much a page from the X-Men book. Wolfman also gave several characters a shared trait: Daddy issues "born of tragedy... Starfire was an alien princess whose weak-willed father Myand'r (meander) sold her into slavery... Raven's mother was an Earth woman raped by an interdimensional demon. In order to save Vic Stone's life, his father had to turn his son into a living cyborg... The theme for the Titans began and remained 'young versus old.' Son and daughter versus father and mother. These universal conflicts, understood by all teens as they grow up and separate from their parents, could be revisited time and again." (from the 1988 foreword) Wolfman's introduction to the 2017 Titans omnibus explains what he set out to accomplish in the free teaser story: Wolfman also reports that he and Perez world Marvel-style. Wolfman wrote general descriptions of what was to happen on each page, and Perez determined layouts and snapshots of action, to which Wolfman married dialogue. I appreciate all of this. Thank you! The more detail a creator goes into in explaining their mentality when they created something decades earlier, the less I trust it. It starts to sound like Bob Kane claiming Davinci was his inspiration for Batman. So I take all of this with several grains of salt, but even if this is just Wolfman's critical commentary on his own work, it's fascinating. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 29, 2019 16:30:10 GMT -5
Yes, but I’m sure he had interviews closer to the beginning of the series that will prove more accurate.
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Post by String on Mar 29, 2019 17:09:00 GMT -5
Oh yeah, one of my favorite and among the first ever DC titles for me. My first NTT issue was #45 just after the end of Judas Contract. So naturally had to track down those issues back then after reading the letters pages and checking footnotes (which was far easier and cheaper then too). So will most definitely be following along with these reviews. I'm curious though as to what you think about Starfire. You touched upon it earlier in your brief character bios but how she is drawn typically by Perez, she can be looked upon as an overt sexual symbol. Her nascent understanding of Earth's culture and it's repressions can bolster this image as well. Fortunately, Wolfman leads her down a better character path (unlike her fan-brutalized Nu52 return in Red Hood) and her relationship with Dick is one of the better comic relationships that I've enjoyed over the years. Was this done on purpose? It seems so. The creative duo appear to be playing against type for dramatizing a strong female superhero beyond being a mere sex symbol. NTT is also the only time and place where I think of Dick as Robin. As I said, this title was one of my first entries into DC as a youth so for me, Dick will always be Nightwing instead. Although I wish you'd started this a week earlier. Speaking of his perhaps mis-remembering the past, I just saw Wolfman the previous weekend as NC Comic-con. Could've asked him some poignant questions about this.  |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 29, 2019 17:47:48 GMT -5
I knew that the preview existed, but I've never read it or seen it before... when it was cheap I didn't know about it, then when I did it was too expensive. What a great idea for a preview! As far as the name change goes for Beast Boy... he talks about it in the Doom Patrol cross over IIRC.. he was trying to move past being a 'superhero child star' and be a hero in his own right... I'm sure we'll discuss when you get there |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 29, 2019 18:05:55 GMT -5
I remember buying DC Presents #26 for the Jim Starlin art in the lead story. Sometimes it pays to have dumb luck in this hobby.
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Post by spoon on Mar 29, 2019 20:14:25 GMT -5
DC Comics Presents #26 (October 1980) What an interesting problem this ten page preview feature must have presented for Wolfman. On the one hand, it's the team's very first appearance. On the other, they can't do anything too important here because New Teen Titans #1 needs to be accessible to folks who didn't see this preview. So Wolfman pens a story in which the Titans both do and don't meet for the first time, and thus, by the time of NTT #1, Robin can say something to the effect of, "I saw this all in a dream!" and move on with the story, never leaving the new readers to feel they'd missed out on something important. But Wolfman also accomplishes far more with this concept. Usually, when a new team is introduced, it takes time for the team to evolve, characters to develop interpersonal relationships and such, but by having Robin flash-forward to when the team is already established, Wolfman can spell out a vision for the team's future, selling us on the finished product before the characters have even had a chance to meet for the first time. It is unenviable task to serve as an introduction, but show the team already formed so as not to usurp the story of the team's formation. I think it does make for some artificiality to the interactions. If the Titans were reformed, and Robin was treated as familiar by teammates he didn't know, shouldn't he call a stop to everything to figure it out (unless it was a dream). I think Raven comes across as the most interesting new character in this story; I think that was my impression for the series as a whole. Does the future/dream sequence battle take place someplace other than New York? At one point, when Robin is back in the present, he remarks that he's back in New York. Cyborg dialogue is an interesting situation. He's the son of a distinguished scientist, but Wolfman tends to use nonstandard grammar with him. I guess it could be considered code-shift, but he really just has him speak one way. |
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 29, 2019 21:38:48 GMT -5
The following could be titled, "George Perez: How He Abandoned the House of Ideas Ship, and Rode the Direct Current to History"But this sample from Fantagraphics Books' 1985 biography Focus on George Perez--  --gives a period-relevant look into the foundation of The New Teen Titans and how Perez came to be involved--and evolved with the title: THE KEEN TITANS By Mark Waid & R.A. Jones"...Wein (as editor) and Wolfman (as writer) felt rather confident that this third time would be a charm. Maybe that was because they had thrown out some of the more cutesy, contrived characters. Maybe it was because they had ideas in mind for stronger additions to the team, and grander, more timely storylines.""Or maybe it was because they had found an ace in the hole. To handle the penciling chores, they chose a young artist who was a relative newcomer to the halls of DC. That man, of course, was George Perez. He was a natural for the post, destined to illustrate the adventures of The New Teen Titans for the next four years in well over 50 books. In those four years, Perez was to help the Titans grow and mature as characters. In return, the Titans would help Perez mature as an artist, with his tenure on the book spend refining, and redefining his own skills in every way possible.""Perez had recently left the employ of Marvel Comics and his reputation was somewhat tarnished. The flashes of genius he had displayed had failed to blossom fully, seeming in danger of withering on the vine. Rumors of his artistic death, however, were greatly exaggerated. Everything comes in its own time, and for Perez, the time was at hand. Despite his failings, Perez had established himself as an action artist, capable of conveying tremendous power in his graphics. Along with that power, he also brought an artistic quality that had been missing from the Teen Titans for too long--a sense of realism. Not the realism of photography, certainly, but the amplified realism of comic art which makes you believe that this is the way a man would look if he really could lift an Oldsmobile.""Not since Neal Adams's brief stint many years before had the book possessed this quality. It gave the Titans an advantage from the start, when readers could more readily identify with the teens by seeing their world as an extension of our own. Of course, we've just made that kind of approach sound rather boring and pedestrian--which it can be. Fortunately, Perez was able to enhance reality with a growing cinematic style and understanding of camera angles that he was able to explore further from issue to issue over the next four years.""The first dozen issues of The New Teen Titans represent what one might call Perez's initial growth period, which took the Titans from the streets of New York t the temples of Paradise Island. The storytelling in the first few issues is certainly more than competent--the action is fast-paced, exciting and flows well--but various shortcomings are evident. The players are, at times, awkwardly constructed--male and female figures alike tend to be a bit short and stocky." A fascinating start not long after the title's rebirth, and where Perez was, or how he was viewed as an artist in that Marvel-to-DC transitional period. Of note is that according to the authors, the title had not seen what they considered realistic art since the brief Neal Adams run ( Teen Titans #20-22, April, June & July of 1969), which could be taken as a slight to Cardy, but I would disagree, citing that in comic art, there is realism, and then there's realism. Waid and Jones--right in the era of Perez's ultimate power as an artist (1985) were not afraid to examine and criticize the early NTT art, with tendencies leftover from his Marvel days. I will say that the best of his Marvel work was not lost at DC's doorstep, but gradually modified. He--unlike some artists who moved from Marvel to DC (or the other way around) did not drastically change his style to suit some directive. Wein and Wolfman certainly allowed Perez the freedom to be himself and with said freedom came rapid growth, as one can see in images from the early issues. ...to continue... "Characters were beginning to gel in terms of their physical appearance by now, too. Back in the text page of Teen Titans #2, Marv Wolfman made mention that, as soon as Perez had been assigned the book, he did a number of character sketches to familiarize himself with these heroes. Among the sketches, was a series of head shots, used on the splash page of that issue as a sort of "roll call." They were good, but the Titans reader of today looking back will easily see the problem with them; one readily admitted by Perez himself: there are really only two faces--a "boy" face and a "girl" face. Consequently, when they were used again on the cover of issue #8, they looked a little crude."
"By then, Perez began to refine their individual looks. Changeling, for example, who is three years younger than his teammates and yet looked at least as old as any of them in the first few issues, had developed a smaller, more youthful face, and was no longer as tall as the others."There's so much more in the bio, but this centers on the early years reviewed here, perhaps reminding readers of Perez's evolution to a point where one can say "that's where the great(er) Perez art started." Perhaps. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 29, 2019 21:54:29 GMT -5
That tarnished reputation thing is a bit of a puzzler, aside from being standard Fantagraphics editorializing. Perez had good runs on Avengers and FF, plus a whole bunch of things here and there and was a fan favorite. he and Simonson were kind of utility, go-to guys, until finally getting a chance to really make their mark, in the 80s; Perez on Titans and Simonson on Thor.
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