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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 3, 2020 15:21:23 GMT -5
It does beg the question why Professor X has an armory, when his students all have powers and are trained to use them in combat situations? I mean, this is before they started really depicting it like an actual school, with young kids. Interesting how you don't see it in later stories. Someone needed to do one of those quieter moment scenes of the Prof at a shooting range or the whole team at the range, questioning why they are firing weapons when they have powers.
Either than, or someone discovering the disused armory, with cobwebs all over racks of weapons that haven't been used since the mid-70s.
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Post by brutalis on Jun 3, 2020 15:49:15 GMT -5
It does beg the question why Professor X has an armory, when his students all have powers and are trained to use them in combat situations? I mean, this is before they started really depicting it like an actual school, with young kids. Interesting how you don't see it in later stories. Someone needed to do one of those quieter moment scenes of the Prof at a shooting range or the whole team at the range, questioning why they are firing weapons when they have powers. Either than, or someone discovering the disused armory, with cobwebs all over racks of weapons that haven't been used since the mid-70s. Wouldn't it make sense logically that the 1st rule of a school for mutants who usually manifest their mutation through "only" 1 power (yes an old idea since it seems every mutant anymore has more abilities than you can count) would be to know how to defend and protect and fight utilizing any modern weapons available? And of course arming under age mutants doesn't go into the moral and/or religious grounds Xavier is tossing aside. When you really take a close look at our man Charles, he actually is a bit of an evil mutant himself ain't he? No wonder he and Magneto can relate and get along so well at times... |
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Post by rberman on Jun 3, 2020 16:05:35 GMT -5
“X-Men augment their powers with weapons” is a sensible bit of realism that I like in theory. Then I think about how it was implemented in the 90s, and I think, errr, maybe not.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 3, 2020 17:09:36 GMT -5
ps Points to Dave Cockrum (a veteran) for drawing the arc of spent cartridges. A lot of artists forget those details. You always look to the reality of weapons and military in a comic. I always look for where the mailboxes are.  |
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Post by zaku on Jun 3, 2020 17:14:08 GMT -5
You know, the fun thing is that in theory you can kill the 90% of the X-Men with a single bullet and still they go unarmed to fight supervillains who can level a city with their powers. I mean, why Angel in his original incarnation should fight the Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants with his bare hands? What is the reasoning here? Even the English cops at least have a baton.
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Post by rberman on Jun 3, 2020 17:15:58 GMT -5
ps Points to Dave Cockrum (a veteran) for drawing the arc of spent cartridges. A lot of artists forget those details. You always look to the reality of weapons and military in a comic. I always look for where the mailboxes are. Funny you mention that, because in NTT #16, I noticed the mailbox beside the front door on this panel and thought, "OK, it's a single family dwelling." Then when a later shot shows how big it is, it seems like it should have more inhabitants.  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 3, 2020 17:28:41 GMT -5
You know, the fun thing is that in theory you can kill the 90% of the X-Men with a single bullet and still they go unarmed to fight supervillains who can level a city with their powers. I mean, why Angel in his original incarnation should fight the Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants with his bare hands? What is the reasoning here? Even the English cops at least have a baton. But the English cops don't have a Comic Code Authority. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 3, 2020 17:40:10 GMT -5
ps Points to Dave Cockrum (a veteran) for drawing the arc of spent cartridges. A lot of artists forget those details. You always look to the reality of weapons and military in a comic. I always look for where the mailboxes are. That's because no one ever goes into a bookstore in comics, unless it has old tomes of evil magic lying around. Or to a shipping company and whines about it costing so much to send a package, air travel to Asia. |
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Post by spoon on Jun 3, 2020 20:29:11 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #13 (November 1981)  "Friends and Foes Alike!" Script: George Pérez (plot); Marv Wolfman (plot, script) Pencils: George Pérez (breakdowns); Romeo Tanghal (finished art) Inks: Romeo Tanghal Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Grade: B+ It seems likely at this point that Wolfman and Perez hadn't planned for this title to last a full year. They played out every major story arc they had been suggesting and working at since those first few issues and now scramble to find something worthy of a major story arc, first on Paradise Island, and now by dredging up ancient convoluted Doom Patrol history, which would have been confusing and potentially off-putting to many of their readers. In both cases, the Titans charge into these storylines without Wolfman and Perez offering us any reason to feel invested. Why do we care what happens to the gods of Paradise Island, to Steve Dayton, Steele, or the bad guys who defeated The Doom Patrol? It's all a desperate gamble, but considering how tiresome dredging up the H.I.V.E. and the Terminator each issue was getting, I guess I'll take this direction instead. The Fearsome Five proved that Wolfman isn't always a powerhouse in generating his own villains and conflicts. In fact, without Perez's art sweetening the deal, the Trigon storyline probably would have felt like an utter waste as well. I'm still playing catch-up, but here I am at #13. I liked this issue more than the Paradise Island two-parter. I disagree that it's a last minute scramble or desperate to use the Doom Patrol in an arc. Hasn't Steve Dayton been showing up in cameos for several issues now. I think this was in the works for a while. Plus, since Gar used to be in DP, this is an organic arc. Also, Robotman has one of the coolest designs. I know in the 1970s revival of a new Doom Patrol in Showcase, Robotman got an aesthetic inferior redesign. I'm not sure when exactly he went back to the classic design shown in this issue. Also, I think the art looks better in this ish. Romeo Tanghal has a Colletta-esque tendency to seemingly erase the rich Perez detail, but it's not so bad in #13. I like the character bits, but I'm juts so bored with the "Terry Long is awesome & understanding" scenes. This I like better. And there definitely was something else going on with Vic, because Kid Flash basically just reworking Vic's own joke. Although I guess someone joking about you may sting more than your own self-effacing joke. Is this the first we've seen of Starfire's space environs since the first couple of issues? To me, Raven saying well, actually Paradise Island is more like Azarath was more interesting when I re-read it with a bit of pride and ego, rather than just a straight factual assessment. In part, I feel like Wolfman and Perez like the characters they've created than KF. Also, I believe I noted back in one of the earlier issues that the magnitude of Kid Flash's power seem to prompt a desire to take him out of the action to make fights work. He can be too powerful at times. To me, it's interesting that instead of balancing out the prior issues by just focusing on the guys, we still get a lot on Paradise Island this issue. Also, is it a little crazy that Gar can transform himself into something as massive as a hundred ton Brachiosaurus. Is that just the effect of the purple beam or can he really increase his mass that much? |
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Post by Chris on Jun 4, 2020 2:52:09 GMT -5
[And while I will probably start a few fires with this, I would generally take Cary Bates on Superman over New Teen Titans any day (get the pitchforks, everyone!). Sorry, but after someone wrote a story where Superboy date-rapes a brainwashed girl, Which story was this? well, that someone would have to work veeeeeery hard his way up from such an abyss. Say what you will about Cary Bates, but Marv Wolfman never wrote a story like the one where Isaac Asimov gives himself powers, becomes a supervillain, and fights Superman.  Yes, that was a real comic. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 4, 2020 7:24:11 GMT -5
In part, I feel like Wolfman and Perez like the characters they've created than KF. Also, I believe I noted back in one of the earlier issues that the magnitude of Kid Flash's power seem to prompt a desire to take him out of the action to make fights work. He can be too powerful at times. I remember Wolfman stating that Kid Flash was too powerful in an interview. Written properly, he'd win just about every fight before you can blink. I would definitely say Wolfman struggled with writing him in fight scenes on that basis. That is probably why he got written out. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 4, 2020 7:39:37 GMT -5
Sorry, but after someone wrote a story where Superboy date-rapes a brainwashed girl, Which story was this? well, that someone would have to work veeeeeery hard his way up from such an abyss. Say what you will about Cary Bates, but Marv Wolfman never wrote a story like the one where Isaac Asimov gives himself powers, becomes a supervillain, and fights Superman. I own that comic! It's pretty weird, but that's OK, so is all of that era's Superman. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 4, 2020 7:56:00 GMT -5
Also, is it a little crazy that Gar can transform himself into something as massive as a hundred ton Brachiosaurus. Is that just the effect of the purple beam or can he really increase his mass that much? A little of both. He creates a being nearly that big in NTT #17, but it's a tremendous strain for him. The purple ray surge definitely seemed to boost his abilities. It is a weird idea that he can increase and decrease his mass at will. Is he converting the molecules around him into his own organic matter and then expelling them after? Probably shouldn't think too hard about this. And yet Claremont (head's up, rberman) was often so careful about these things, tackling the mass issue with Mystique, and even exploring how things like hpw being in the vacuum of space would affect Storm or Iceman's abilities. Heck, Nightcrawler can't teleport somewhere he can't see for fear of porting into a solid wall, but a few issues back, Warp was amazed when he teleported blindly into Madame Rouge's floating headquarters and got there successfully on the first try. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 4, 2020 7:59:17 GMT -5
In part, I feel like Wolfman and Perez like the characters they've created than KF. Also, I believe I noted back in one of the earlier issues that the magnitude of Kid Flash's power seem to prompt a desire to take him out of the action to make fights work. He can be too powerful at times. I remember Wolfman stating that Kid Flash was too powerful in an interview. Written properly, he'd win just about every fight before you can blink. I would definitely say Wolfman struggled with writing him in fight scenes on that basis. That is probably why he got written out. Wolfman wanted to write human stories more than anything. While the de-powered Post-Crisis Superman wasn't his idea, he was the writer who ran with it the most. His Supes stories were all about placing Clark in situations where brute strength couldn't win the day. This is him at an earlier stage, still feeling the pressure to put an obligatory battle in (almost) every issue, but even then, it's rarely about the cool powers and fighting -- it's the banter and introspection during battles that seems to be Wolfman's passion. Kid Flash is definitely too overpowered to work in those moments. He'd have the battle won in seconds, or (at the very least) can't really hold a conversation with the rest of the team because he's moving far too fast. But even more than that, Wolfman either has no idea what to do with Wally's internal character or doesn't care. He's the only character on this team who has absolutely nothing interesting going for him by this point. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 4, 2020 8:02:45 GMT -5
Which story was this? Say what you will about Cary Bates, but Marv Wolfman never wrote a story like the one where Isaac Asimov gives himself powers, becomes a supervillain, and fights Superman. I own that comic! It's pretty weird, but that's OK, so is all of that era's Superman. What's the issue # ? I have many unread Bronze Age Superman comics, I might want to read it. |
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