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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2020 23:14:07 GMT -5
Eh, Polish, Russian......it's all Commies!  |
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Post by spoon on Jun 12, 2020 23:23:41 GMT -5
And now back to our regularly scheduled program... New Teen Titans #18  "A Pretty Girl Is Like a-- Maladi!" Script: Marv Wolfman Pencils: George Pérez (breakdowns); Romeo Tanghal (finished art) Inks: Romeo Tanghal Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: John Costanza Grade: B- I'm divided on this issue. I think Perez & Tanghal do one of their best jobs on art so far in the series. It's a well-paced and interesting story. But it's really heavy-handed on the politics and makes original recipe Starfire way too powerful. Robin remarks that when they first met, they never saw Russian Starfire's power. So did he just kick around for a whole issue never bothering to use his power? I'm a liberal, and I found the painting any criticism of the Soviet government or its agents as hysterical to be a really annoying way to tell the story. First, Kid Flash is right about the Soviet government being a malignant and violent force in various places that he mentions. Skepticism of many U.S. Cold War practices should make people minimize the harms done by the Soviet Union. It's not an either/or thing. Second, while readers have the ability through the storytelling to see that O.G. Starfire is really trying to stop the plague, he's outwardly behaving in a way that merits suspicion. He's a super-powered operative in an enemy country, operating without that country's permission, and won't explain himself. And while we're told (and supposed to absorb) that you shouldn't just every citizen by his government, old-school Starfire is not any citizen. He ties himself to that oppressive, warmongering government. He takes his cues from their orders, refusing to explain himself until they give the okay. Then, he lashes out rather than trying to de-escalate. KF is depicted as a hothead here, but in many ways Leonid is too. Every contagion story makes me a bit uncomfortable nowadays. Hey, Gar. Kory's boyfrien DIED. Might take some time to get past that. I don't mind the rolling timelines. Without that, they'd have to retire the heroes and replace everyone. But yes, they certainly don't seem like teenagers, except maybe for Gar or possibly Kory. Charles and Cain serving together in the Korean War dates all the way back to Juggernaut's first appearance by Lee and Kirby. The interesting thing is that events in those early years gave a bit of wiggle room. If Professor Xavier got his powers from his dad doing nuclear weapons research, and Chuck served in the Korean War, how old would he really have been in 1963. Did the dossier given to the man who would be Red Star show what the rest of Raven's costume looks like under her cloak? Yeah, that bugged me, too. Not a glad plan for tracking someone undetected. Not only are more people more noticeable, but they could have at least divided up their group to cover the various exits. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2020 0:06:00 GMT -5
Robin remarks that when they first met, they never saw Russian Starfire's power. So did he just kick around for a whole issue never bothering to use his power? No, it's Wolfman giving the character a soft reboot. His powers were outright explained to the team in that first appearance, but were far less dazzling than they are here:  So he ran around and punched the bad guy a lot, and we were just supposed to buy that he was extra good at it. Yeah, the only way it can possibly work is if Charles' father had been researching nuclear weapons well prior to the start of the Manhattan Project in 1942. If Charles had already been in his 20s by the time of the Korean War, he'd still be young enough to serve, but he could then be in his mid to late 30s by the time of X-Men #1, the bald head being a product of his mutation instead of a reflection of his age. But this would mean his father was working on nuclear weapons in the early 1930s. The idea of a nuclear chain reaction wasn't even patented until 1934. I suppose Charles could have been born in 1935 (thus conceived very soon after the idea for the nuclear reaction had been patented), his father working for some super secret international initiative that remains hidden from public knowledge today. Charles would be 18 at the start of the Korean War (1950) and thus draftable. He'd then be thirty one at the time of X-men #1 (1963), a little younger than I'd find believable, but not entirely impossible. Valid point. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2020 5:27:32 GMT -5
Yeah, the only way it can possibly work is if Charles' father had been researching nuclear weapons well prior to the start of the Manhattan Project in 1942. If Charles had already been in his 20s by the time of the Korean War, he'd still be young enough to serve, but he could then be in his mid to late 30s by the time of X-Men #1, the bald head being a product of his mutation instead of a reflection of his age. But this would mean his father was working on nuclear weapons in the early 1930s. The idea of a nuclear chain reaction wasn't even patented until 1934. I suppose Charles could have been born in 1935 (thus conceived very soon after the idea for the nuclear reaction had been patented), his father working for some super secret international initiative that remains hidden from public knowledge today. Charles would be 18 at the start of the Korean War (1950) and thus draftable. He'd then be thirty one at the time of X-men #1 (1963), a little younger than I'd find believable, but not entirely impossible. Maybe Chuck's dad was messing around with radium, like Marie Curie? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2020 9:16:56 GMT -5
Yeah, the only way it can possibly work is if Charles' father had been researching nuclear weapons well prior to the start of the Manhattan Project in 1942. If Charles had already been in his 20s by the time of the Korean War, he'd still be young enough to serve, but he could then be in his mid to late 30s by the time of X-Men #1, the bald head being a product of his mutation instead of a reflection of his age. But this would mean his father was working on nuclear weapons in the early 1930s. The idea of a nuclear chain reaction wasn't even patented until 1934. I suppose Charles could have been born in 1935 (thus conceived very soon after the idea for the nuclear reaction had been patented), his father working for some super secret international initiative that remains hidden from public knowledge today. Charles would be 18 at the start of the Korean War (1950) and thus draftable. He'd then be thirty one at the time of X-men #1 (1963), a little younger than I'd find believable, but not entirely impossible. Maybe Chuck's dad was messing around with radium, like Marie Curie? Apparently, current Marvel continuity (for what it's worth) has his father working on a top secret atomic experiment in 1946, either suggesting Charles was mutated after his birth or suggesting Marvel is wiping time references out the window all-together, as Charles would be 7 years old at the conclusion of the Korean War, and 17 at the time of X-men #1 if he was born in 1946. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2020 11:00:51 GMT -5
Maybe Chuck's dad was messing around with radium, like Marie Curie? Apparently, current Marvel continuity (for what it's worth) has his father working on a top secret atomic experiment in 1946, either suggesting Charles was mutated after his birth or suggesting Marvel is wiping time references out the window all-together, as Charles would be 7 years old at the conclusion of the Korean War, and 17 at the time of X-men #1 if he was born in 1946. Yeah, not that I pay attention much to modern comics, but I would assume that at this point Chuck did not serve in the Korean War. Maybe they'll push it back to 'Nam or some other war, or just ignore that part of his backstory altogether. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 15, 2020 11:28:25 GMT -5
According to John Byrne, Xavier was in his twenties at the time of X-Men #1. Devotees of Marvel Time consider Fantastic Four #1 to have happenined about 10 years ago.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 15, 2020 12:07:36 GMT -5
According to John Byrne, Xavier was in his twenties at the time of X-Men #1. Devotees of Marvel Time consider Fantastic Four #1 to have happenined about 10 years ago. And World War II was 1989 to 1995! |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 15, 2020 13:17:59 GMT -5
According to John Byrne, Xavier was in his twenties at the time of X-Men #1. Devotees of Marvel Time consider Fantastic Four #1 to have happenined about 10 years ago. I'd say Xavier being in his 20's then is insane (he sure didn't look it) but I do recall a very early issue where he was professing his love for Jean in a though balloon, which is at least a bit less creepy if he's in his 20s. If he's in his 20's though, I think it would have to be 29. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 15, 2020 14:00:10 GMT -5
In X-Men #1 Xavier told Jean he was born of parents who had worked on the first A-bomb project.  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 15, 2020 14:55:58 GMT -5
In X-Men #1 Xavier told Jean he was born of parents who had worked on the first A-bomb project. Well, in the Marvel Universe, the first A-Bomb project was probably 1917 to 1918 and there’s an untold Phantom Eagle adventure waiting for a mini-series, possibly involving Kang, the Watcher, several Captain Marvels and a very young Ben and May Parker. |
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Post by spoon on Jun 15, 2020 19:11:57 GMT -5
In X-Men #1 Xavier told Jean he was born of parents who had worked on the first A-bomb project. Yes, this is the scene I was thinking of. It makes it sound as if his parents were already working on the atomic bomb before he was born. In X-Men #12, the fudge the timeline a bit in that an atomic explosion in Alamagordo kills his dad, Brian, when he already several years old, but I guess there was atomic research going on there for many years so it could've started before he was born and gone well into his childhood. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 15, 2020 21:32:57 GMT -5
I think you can put that down to an instance of Kirby and Lee being on different pages with the story. In Kirby's mind. Xavier is older than Stan's dialogue makes him out to be and that's how he draws him. More than likely, Kirby probably saw him as someone who worked on the Manhattan Project, not the son of scientists on it. Stan was likely either ignorant of when the Manhattan project started or though of Xavier as younger than Jack drew. Given how many things were established in one story and contradicted in another, I suspect Stan's dialogue was just something on the fly and the Korea thing only came up when he was working on that story, forgetting what he had done before (with his nortoriously bad memory).
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 15, 2020 22:41:34 GMT -5
60s story references don't could any more time-wise... Tony Stark originally had his original in Vietnam.. then it moved to Afganistan... now it's just an unnamed middle Eastern conflict. Clearly if they're still around, none of the orignal heroes could have fought in Korea or even Vietnam and still be viable as a hero in 2020.
Just one of those things you have to accept if you don't want real-time comics (which I totally do)
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 16, 2020 7:31:00 GMT -5
In X-Men #1 Xavier told Jean he was born of parents who had worked on the first A-bomb project. Well, in the Marvel Universe, the first A-Bomb project was probably 1917 to 1918 and there’s an untold Phantom Eagle adventure waiting for a mini-series, possibly involving Kang, the Watcher, several Captain Marvels and a very young Ben and May Parker. Don't forget Wolverine! |
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