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Post by The Captain on May 17, 2019 9:01:22 GMT -5
Yes, this is exactly it. If I were independently wealthy and just needed something to do to pass time, opening a shop would be fun. Since I was 18 years old my answer whenever anyone asks me 'what would you do if you won the lottery' or 'what would you do with x dollars' has been 'pay my bills then open a comic book store' That was my answer for a while as well, but in the past decade, my answer has become "Retire". If I had enough money to open a comic book shop, then I should have enough money to not open a comic book shop. I don't like the concept of "work", so with enough money at my disposal, I wouldn't willingly choose to risk it on something like owning my own business when I could just take it easy and do what I wanted for the rest of my life. Volunteer for organizations my wife and I support, travel, hopefully be active in my theoretical future grandkids' lives; those are far more appealing to me than operating a shop in a dying industry and all of the attendant stresses that would come along with that.
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Post by urrutiap on May 17, 2019 10:14:50 GMT -5
Well thats your Debbie Downer opinion
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:20:41 GMT -5
Well thats your Debbie Downer opinion or as the rest of the world calls it, reality. Facts don't become opinion just because you don't agree with them. -M
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 17, 2019 10:29:46 GMT -5
Well thats your Debbie Downer opinion Except it's not an opinion...there are literally dozens or articles on the subject that objectively state how many stores have closed and how many total stores there are. Why is that difficult to understand?
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Post by impulse on May 17, 2019 10:41:11 GMT -5
Well thats your Debbie Downer opinion Except it's not an opinion...there are literally dozens or articles on the subject that objectively state how many stores have closed and how many total stores there are. Why is that difficult to understand? Disagree, assuming we're still talking about "if I won the lottery" stupid amounts of money. It would basically be a place to hang out and talk and play with things you like. If you mean the big jackpot and invest it in anything better than a stunningly incompetent manner, there is nothing to worry about. Any few mil tied up in rent, inventory, etc, should easily be offset. That said, chances of those circumstances are what, 1 in a 100 million at best? Yeah, unlikely. To clarify, I'm talking like the Powerball minimum $100 Million payout. A nerd store supreme would be a lot of fun if I could fund it many times over just with interest and not in any way rely on the income for anything. Though if I had that kind of scratch, there's a lot of other things I would like to spend it on, too.
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 17, 2019 10:44:46 GMT -5
Except it's not an opinion...there are literally dozens or articles on the subject that objectively state how many stores have closed and how many total stores there are. Why is that difficult to understand? Disagree, assuming we're still talking about "if I won the lottery" stupid amounts of money. It would basically be a place to hang out and talk and play with things you like. If you mean the big jackpot and invest it in anything better than a stunningly incompetent manner, there is nothing to worry about. Any few mil tied up in rent, inventory, etc, should easily be offset. That said, chances of those circumstances are what, 1 in a 100 million at best? Yeah, unlikely. None of which would stop the industry itself from failing, not every store owner can win that hypothetical lottery and fund their store that way.
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Post by impulse on May 17, 2019 11:07:24 GMT -5
Disagree, assuming we're still talking about "if I won the lottery" stupid amounts of money. It would basically be a place to hang out and talk and play with things you like. If you mean the big jackpot and invest it in anything better than a stunningly incompetent manner, there is nothing to worry about. Any few mil tied up in rent, inventory, etc, should easily be offset. That said, chances of those circumstances are what, 1 in a 100 million at best? Yeah, unlikely. None of which would stop the industry itself from failing, not every store owner can win that hypothetical lottery and fund their store that way. Well of course not. That is a self contained tangent discussion. I think we are making different points. Moving on.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 17, 2019 12:51:20 GMT -5
Except it's not an opinion...there are literally dozens or articles on the subject that objectively state how many stores have closed and how many total stores there are. Why is that difficult to understand? Disagree, assuming we're still talking about "if I won the lottery" stupid amounts of money. It would basically be a place to hang out and talk and play with things you like. If you mean the big jackpot and invest it in anything better than a stunningly incompetent manner, there is nothing to worry about. Any few mil tied up in rent, inventory, etc, should easily be offset. That said, chances of those circumstances are what, 1 in a 100 million at best? Yeah, unlikely. To clarify, I'm talking like the Powerball minimum $100 Million payout. A nerd store supreme would be a lot of fun if I could fund it many times over just with interest and not in any way rely on the income for anything. Though if I had that kind of scratch, there's a lot of other things I would like to spend it on, too. It's a bit hard to tell to what urrutiap was replying because he didn't quote. You (I believe) took it to be a response to The Captain's talking about what he'd do with lottery winnings. MRP and Guardian, and myself for that matter, took it as a response to the fact that his particular LCS doesn't negate that numerous comic shops are being closed and not being replaced. In regard to the latter it is not an opinion. His anecdotal view of one shop doesn't change data that shows the opposite across the country. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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Post by impulse on May 17, 2019 14:43:06 GMT -5
It's a bit hard to tell to what urrutiap was replying because he didn't quote. You (I believe) took it to be a response to The Captain's talking about what he'd do with lottery winnings. MRP and Guardian, and myself for that matter, took it as a response to the fact that his particular LCS doesn't negate that numerous comic shops are being closed and not being replaced. In regard to the latter it is not an opinion. His anecdotal view of one shop doesn't change data that shows the opposite across the country. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan As usual, I agree with you. Without quoting a post, I assumed he was responding to the most recent post, e.g. The Captain's. Based on the interpretation you guys took, I agree with you 100%. The facts plainly show comic shops on the decline. And thanks for citing that quote. I've referenced it before without knowing to whom to attribute it. They say you should never stop learning, so here we go!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 13:41:51 GMT -5
Another one bites the dust and this is one I know a guy who goes to and it's a fairly busy shop with a decent customer base, but the rising rent and lack of new customers coming in to replace customers lost to aging out and other factors simply led them to decide it wasn't worth trying to keep going as a brick and mortar store, They will continue to have an online presence, but are closing the actual store. -M
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 14:34:31 GMT -5
Here in the UK, rents and council greed are a concern. Not just for comic stores, of course. But since this is a topic about comic stores, that is a problem.
My LCS has a monthly meet where we discuss graphic novels in a pub. Now, those who attend the meet - and the highest number was around 10 - are people we try to encourage to go to the store. Some do. But others, and I know this is their right, choose to go to Waterstones, WHSmith or go online. But at each meet, the guy who runs it will suggest a book and how it can be ordered via the shop.
He's trying to get more "foot traffic" in. I do my bit, but I'm not an employee (hey, maybe I could stick some graphic novels in a the back of my cab!).
It is a shame about rents, though. All councils care about here are getting their business rates. All landlords care about is the rent. If a shop goes under, it doesn't matter to these institutions. As a market stall holder once told me, "Councils and landlords don't care because if we fail, we become the problem of the Department of Social Security. And there'll always be another 'here today, gone tomorrow' business to come along." Or words to that effect.
Shops near me (not the LCS) are trying to become "hubs" and "hosting places". For instance, an independent coffee shop not far from me encourages people to have meetings there with the proviso that while on the premises you buy something to eat and/or drink. The tables are big, the area is spacious, and I guess the modern way is to get not only the coffee drinkers in but the book club members, businessmen, people who wish to do some writing, etc.
And that's probably where my LCS will go. There's always rumours of hosting a game there or setting aside a reading area where people buy a book but then discuss it with others. Maybe that's something for all LCSs to consider because, even with the best will in the world, hoping for "foot traffic" could end up being a pipe dream. It'll come in some form (people like me who buy comics regularly), but proactively getting them in is another thing.
And based on comments made earlier in the thread, if my LCS does end up hosting games or events, they need to make it clear that if you wish to partake, you buy the card games or graphic novels in the store. It's no use organising such events if a group of people take up table/sofa space but have bought all their cards at Asda.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 11, 2019 11:30:02 GMT -5
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Post by urrutiap on Jun 12, 2019 19:32:32 GMT -5
The big city comic book shops that YOU guys go to, the reason why they are closing is because they dont have the proper business plan to stay or keep going. Also managing things poorly at the comic book shops that some of you guys go to.
Also customers that dont pick up the stuff they want to be held for them. Go to the damn store and buy them pick them up. Probably why big city comic book shops are closing down anyway because of those types of customers
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 12, 2019 21:52:15 GMT -5
I don't know why stores close more in the bigger cities than where you live. I don't think it's because where you are, they are business geniuses. Stores in big cities have big rents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 23:22:01 GMT -5
Shops are closing in small towns. Shops are closing in big cities. Shops are closing in other countries. People not picking up pull lists doesn't help, but it's a small fraction of people just not buying periodical comics in general.
Marvel put out 118 titles in May 2019. Only 13 of them sold over 50K copies in the U.S. At roughly 5000 Diamond accounts in the US, a title that sells 50K nationally sells an average of 10 copies per account. Factor in large accounts like Mile High, DCBS, TFAW, Midtown, Lonestar, etc, that sell nationally by mail order that buy way more than 10 copies each, and that means most shops are ordering 5 copies or less for most Marvel titles. Considering that each copy makes a shop less than $2 after product cost and shipping from Diamond and that means a shop is making less than $10 a month on average from each Marvel title they carry. Even with 118 titles, that is a pittance. And that's not going to cover rent, insurance, utilities, payroll, etc. DC publishes fewer titles and managed 12 titles selling over 50K. No indy title sold over 50k (Walking Dead came closest with 48K).
the 100th best selling book that month only sold 22K. The 150th sold only 14K. The 191st best selling title and below all sell less than 10K units per month. The lowest selling book in the top 500 (and there are more than 500 titles per month in the Diamond catalog, so some sell even less) sold barely over 1100 copies.
The best selling title was the first issue of the DC event DCeased that sold 242K copies. The #2 title sold over 100K less, and that was another DC event book, Doomsday Clock #10 at 117K. The highest charting book that was not an event or mini series was the first issue of Savage Avengers bolstered by being a #1 with a shit-ton of variants, and it sold under 112K copies. The best selling ongoing that was not a #1, was Amazing Spider-Man at 92K.
Margins are too small on books for retailers to have many unsold copies, which means they can't risk ordering extra copies to stock shelves for casual customers who may or may not buy it, or to stock for a book to sell beyond the week it comes out, which severely limits any potential growth in sales for shops even if there are new customers walking through the door. Preorder/pull customers who stiff shops certainly kill those margins.
If you consider those numbers-i.e. a 50K seller has an average of 10 copies ordered in, that means a shop that is doing well and orders say 20 copies, means other shops are ordering less (and those are ordered in numbers, not sold to end customer numbers). So if one shop is performing above average, and ten is the average, it means a lot of shops are performing under average to maintain 10 as the average.
If your shop is doing well, celebrate that fact, but it doesn't mean that comics shops as a whole aren't experiencing a downturn, and it doesn't mean your shop is doing anything better than another shop that is struggling, they are just blessed with a large enough customer base to make the margins work, but things can change fast-a rural area that depends on one or two plants to provide a lot of jobs can experience an economic upheaval if one of the plants closes and workers either relocate or have to cut discretionary spending because of job loss. If say 10 of those plant workers bought their books at that rural shop, that's a massive hit to their pull base and sales and they can go from doing well to hurting in the three months it takes them to adjust their orders from Diamond since books are ordered three months in advance. Shops in the south in areas suffering from massive flooding may experience upheaval even if the floodwaters don't affect their shops, it will likely affect some of their customers. Here we had several people dislocated by a series of tornadoes that touched down over Memorial Day weekend and even though none of the shops suffered any major damage, they all have pull customers that did and that will affect their sales over the next several months.
Many comic publishers print their books in China, which means they will be subject to tariffs moving forward. This will increase cover prices on some books and may price some existing customers out.
I am guessing most comic shop owners don't have business plans that take into account plant closings, disastrous weather, tariffs and other things that affect their customer base's ability or willingness to spend money on comics. With margins so small to begin with, even small changes from events like that can cause a shop that was in the black to suddenly be in the red and have to consider closing. Cash flow is always a huge issue with small businesses, and especially with comic shops that have to pay their Diamond invoice when the books are delivered, not after they have had a chance to sell them, so no money, no books to sell. So a bad week can mean you can't afford next week's shipment, and that is the kiss of death. Most shops don't have a large enough cash reserve to handle those unexpected twists.
So again, if you have a shop that's doing well, count your blessings and knock on wood. The best business plans cannot deal with some of the challenges facing comic shops these days, many of which are out of their sphere of control. It's why most shops diversify beyond comics these days, because comics in of themselves have low margins and don't sell in enough volume to make it worth the owners while, and it's also why a lot of longtime shops are closing. New shops opening are nice, but new shops are usually under-capitalized and the most vulnerable to cash flow issues, as I think it's something like 60% of new businesses close within the first 3 years because of cash flow issues regardless of the type of business, and the structure of the comic business only exacerbates that issue.
It's not a rural vs. urban issue. It's not a good business plan vs. bad business plan thing, though a good business plan and sound financial management certainly help. It comes down to how big is your customer base, how stable is your customer base, and how well capitalized is your business to handle a sudden downturn or financial hit? A lot of shops use digital storefronts through Comixology and online stores via ebay or Amazon to expand their customer base and facilitate sell-throughs to maintain cash flow and keep their business liquid and capitalized. Some diversify into things like Magic, which has huge margins if you break open a box or seven of a new set of cards and sell the rares and in demand cards as singles. Others travel con circuits to move stuff that doesn't sell in store and increase their potential customer base. Part of that is business plan, but a lot depends on availability (you can't do cons in an area that doesn't have any shows) and staffing-it's hard to run an ebay store or sort out singles if you are the only employee in your store and have to cover the registers, wait on the customers, stock the merchandise, write the orders, deal with damages, etc. etc. And it's getting harder to staff small businesses as well-we are nearly fully employed so it's hard ot compete with other employers offering higher salary and benefits-things comic shops can rarely afford, and if you happen to operate somewhere like San Francisco with a $15 an hour minimum wage, staffing gets expensive especially for a low margin operation like a comic shop (which is why a lot of shops resort to under the table employees who are fans working for discounts on their comics, etc. which opens a whole can of worms about the quality of customer service in the shop and which also hurts the margins on the books sold if you discount them too much).
There are thousands of factors contributing to the success or failure of comic shops that most comic fans don't consider and don't have a clue that they should even consider them because they aren't business men, and sadly neither are a lot of comic shop owners, which contributes to the failure of a lot of shops as well. Even in the boom times, it's tough to run a successful comic shop, and this is hardly a boom period for comics.
-M
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